Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Not sure I follow. What excuse?

Red Rick is inverting the "meh, nobody was interested and they just let him win because it was a minor race" rhetoric. It's another type of preemptive troll. Basically, if he doesn't perform on Sunday, you can't make the claim he's not 100% yet/anymore because what he did today or at the Euro's. And it will serve as proof that he "failed" and can't perform "at the highest level confirmed!"

 

[red_flanders]

Red Rick is inverting the "meh, nobody was interested and they just let him win because it was a minor race" rhetoric. It's another type of preemptive troll. Basically, if he doesn't perform on Sunday, you can't make the claim he's not 100% yet/anymore because what he did today or at the Euro's. And it will serve as proof that he "failed" and can't perform "at the highest level confirmed!"

Thank you for the explanation. My lack of interest in such discussions is profound. I simply observed that it's not clear to me he's at the same level he was at last year in Poland/Lombardia. He might be. i'm just not sure. He's good. He certainly could win. We'll see.

 

[Rackham]

I'll stick my neck out here & say he's stronger now than he was back then.

He's consistent, confident, displays more calmness & clearly enjoys what he's doing. He's way more experienced as well. I think if you put this Evenepoel we saw today versus pre-crash Evenepoel, he'd win.

Will it be enough for Lombardia? As he said himself, Roglic & Pogacar are a tier above (& even his own teammate Alaphilippe should be viewed as one of the favorites if he's got his good legs on race day). But this shows where Evenepoel is at right now, i.e. no longer in the realm of "hyped" riders but actually riding against the best in the world & usually competing with them (like he did against Roglic on Saturday).

He's not the best in the world who'll effortlessly blow the best riders off his wheel (he wasn't before his crash either), but he's totally in the fight & has the potential win on Saturday.

That's how I see it in any case.

 

[topcat]

Red Rick is inverting the "meh, nobody was interested and they just let him win because it was a minor race" rhetoric. It's another type of preemptive troll. Basically, if he doesn't perform on Sunday, you can't make the claim he's not 100% yet/anymore because what he did today or at the Euro's. And it will serve as proof that he "failed" and can't perform "at the highest level confirmed!"

Saturday.
Remco is the best rouleur in the world ( as confirmed by Red Rick).
Is he back to his best? He's very good, he should improve with age anyway.
So far he hasn't shown he's one of the best climbers in the world and Lombardia is the climbers' monument.

 

[Volderke]

But if he wins lombardia, we still have the whole winter to discuss if he is capable of winning a GT, and thereby finally proving he is one of the best.
Winning Lombardia isn’t enough and doesn’t prove much, does it?

 

[tobydawq]

He's consistent, confident, displays more calmness & clearly enjoys what he's doing. He's way more experienced as well. I think if you put this Evenepoel we saw today versus pre-crash Evenepoel, he'd win.

I don't know. What if they're both so strong that they can't shake each other? Then we know they'll both lose the two-man sprint in the end.

 

[RedheadDane]

He's consistent, confident, displays more calmness & clearly enjoys what he's doing. He's way more experienced as well. I think if you put this Evenepoel we saw today versus pre-crash Evenepoel, he'd win.

Now, that would require time-travel, and somehow not causing a space-time rift when the two versions meet, and that is too complicated!

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

But if he wins lombardia, we still have the whole winter to discuss if he is capable of winning a GT, and thereby finally proving he is one of the best.
Winning Lombardia isn’t enough and doesn’t prove much, does it?

He's definitely one of the more interesting riders we've seen. If he had any semblance of a sprint he'd be unstoppable. That being said he's won 22 races of varying quality, which is quite a bit for someone with one of the worst sprints in pro cycling.

What's more interesting that the only active Belgian riders with more wins are Gilbert (80), GVA (42), Wellens (32), Van Aert (30) and Philipsen (25).

 

[tobydawq]

Um, Philipsen only has 14 wins...?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He's definitely one of the more interesting riders we've seen. If he had any semblance of a sprint he'd be unstoppable. That being said he's won 22 races of varying quality, which is quite a bit for someone with one of the worst sprints in pro cycling.

What's more interesting that the only active Belgian riders with more wins are Gilbert (80), GVA (42), Wellens (32), Van Aert (30) and Philipsen (25).

Though he only has 3 WT wins, he is currently the 5th ranked active Belgian cyclist according to PCS's "all-time/career" ranking. Behind Gilbert, Van Avermaet, Van Aert and Wellens. Ahead of Lampaert, Benoot, Teuns, Stuyven, Merlier, Naesen, Vanmarcke, Hermans, Philipsen, De Gendt etc.

Overall (internationally) he is the 63th ranked active cyclist according to the same "all time/carreer" ranking on PCS.

 

[topcat]

But if he wins lombardia, we still have the whole winter to discuss if he is capable of winning a GT, and thereby finally proving he is one of the best.
Winning Lombardia isn’t enough and doesn’t prove much, does it?

I expect Remco to win more monuments and gts than van Aert, if that's what you're insinuating.

 

[Extinction]

It's quite simple: the kid is really freekin strong, has only been racing for 4 years and so should still have a massive margine of improvement. Consider this with another 3 years in his legs, when a depth of fitness will replace youthfull perkiness. Then we can start talking about if he is or isn't capable of winning a GT, not before.

 

[hayneplane]

I think Lombardia will be a better indicator if he‘s 100% back. The riders he was trouncing in the lead up to Lombardia last year were in another level that the crew today. He may be, we shall see. But the competition will be fierce this time.

It will and it won’t as the field this year is much deeper and stronger as last year none of the Tour GC riders did Lombardia due to the post-Covid resumption schedule.

I am still convinced he would have won last years event solo by over a minute if he had stayed upright but this time around will be much more difficult a scenario.

 

[topt]

I expect Remco to win more monuments and gts than van Aert, if that's what you're insinuating.

and I expect Remco to have more second places than Valverde

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

Um, Philipsen only has 14 wins...?

You are correct.

Strangely it also shows this on the all time Belgian wins list

53

PHILIPSEN Jasper

25

 

[Ricco']

You are correct.

Strangely it also shows this on the all time Belgian wins list

53

PHILIPSEN Jasper

25

If you count .2 and U23 races his sum adds up to 25.

 

[JosefK]

I'm impressed by Remco's progress this year. He doesn't hang his head after setbacks. He may be impulsive, may make questionable decisions, may be cranky sometimes, but he surely has the mental toughness required for the elite level on the world tour. For his return to racing this year, I was most worried about the effects of his pelvic fracture, but all indications are that he's moved on from it. With his drive, it's very unlikely that he won't continue to improve . . . probably substantially.

 

[johnymax]

He is a very interesting rider, that's for sure. One could say he has only one trick up his sleeve to win races, but that trick is very effective. You know it is coming, but you can't do anything to stop it. A bit like Purito in his days with his uphill sprint on muritos. A completely different kind of trick, but the results were similar.

The problem with Remco is that for now the trick is working only in races with modest competition or in situations where his team has numbers or preferably both, like it was the case today. I'm sure it'll still bring him some big wins in the future, though. I'm really looking forward to his Lombardia performance.

The hype is still a bit too much for my taste, though. Giro del' Emilia was a prime example. When Almeida pushed on the climb and put Remco in a bit of difficulty, the commentators (Pancani and Petacchi) were questioning the move..."What is he doing? He is putting pressure on his own teamate, that's not a wise decision..."
Then when Remco pushed on the descent/false flat and put Almeida in difficulty they were like..."look at Remco how he is pushing on the descent! What a great rider he is, even his teammate Almeida can't follow his tempo..."
The biggest WTF moment was when Remco couldn't follow the strongest 4 riders on the penultimate San Luca and Petacchi was like..."I don't believe he is struggling. He is probably playing with us all, he is bluffing. And if he can play with us on a climb like San Luca, then..." Lol, it was almost cringeworthy.

 

[Extinction]

He is a very interesting rider, that's for sure. One could say he has only one trick up his sleeve to win races, but that trick is very effective. You know it is coming, but you can't do anything to stop it. A bit like Purito in his days with his uphill sprint on muritos. A completely different kind of trick, but the results were similar.

The problem with Remco is that for now the trick is working only in races with modest competition or in situations where his team has numbers or preferably both, like it was the case today. I'm sure it'll still bring him some big wins in the future, though. I'm really looking forward to his Lombardia performance.

The hype is still a bit too much for my taste, though. Giro del' Emilia was a prime example. When Almeida pushed on the climb and put Remco in a bit of difficulty, the commentators (Pancani and Petacchi) were questioning the move..."What is he doing? He is putting pressure on his own teamate, that's not a wise decision..."
Then when Remco pushed on the descent/false flat and put Almeida in difficulty they were like..."look at Remco how he is pushing on the descent! What a great rider he is, even his teammate Almeida can't follow his tempo..."
The biggest WTF moment was when Remco couldn't follow the strongest 4 riders on the penultimate San Luca and Petacchi was like..."I don't believe he is struggling. He is probably playing with us all, he is bluffing. And if he can play with us on a climb like San Luca, then..." Lol, it was almost cringeworthy.

True, but Remco had already expended great energy blowing up the race the first time up San Luca. This needs to be taken into consideration when he was placed in difficulty on the last two ascents against some of the best in the world. Riders who have more depth in form than Remco does. That's why I say let's see how much margin for improvement over the next few years he has, before drawing conlusions.

 

[Andre]

But if he wins lombardia, we still have the whole winter to discuss if he is capable of winning a GT, and thereby finally proving he is one of the best.
Winning Lombardia isn’t enough and doesn’t prove much, does it?

It proves it all...and it proves nothing. But that is how the great sport of cycling is

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He is a very interesting rider, that's for sure. One could say he has only one trick up his sleeve to win races, but that trick is very effective. You know it is coming, but you can't do anything to stop it. A bit like Purito in his days with his uphill sprint on muritos. A completely different kind of trick, but the results were similar.

The problem with Remco is that for now the trick is working only in races with modest competition or in situations where his team has numbers or preferably both, like it was the case today. I'm sure it'll still bring him some big wins in the future, though. I'm really looking forward to his Lombardia performance.

The hype is still a bit too much for my taste, though. Giro del' Emilia was a prime example. When Almeida pushed on the climb and put Remco in a bit of difficulty, the commentators (Pancani and Petacchi) were questioning the move..."What is he doing? He is putting pressure on his own teamate, that's not a wise decision..."
Then when Remco pushed on the descent/false flat and put Almeida in difficulty they were like..."look at Remco how he is pushing on the descent! What a great rider he is, even his teammate Almeida can't follow his tempo..."
The biggest WTF moment was when Remco couldn't follow the strongest 4 riders on the penultimate San Luca and Petacchi was like..."I don't believe he is struggling. He is probably playing with us all, he is bluffing. And if he can play with us on a climb like San Luca, then..." Lol, it was almost cringeworthy.

It seemed clear they were both attacking in turn in order to break TJV. They got rid of Vingegaard. Once it became clear they weren't getting away, also thanks to Yates who took up some domestique duties for Roglic, they bet on their fastest guy, Almeida. Evenepoel set up Almeida on the final climb, setting pace and was understandibly dropped when Almeida attacked.

One of the 3 times when Almeida attacked, Evenepoel was at the back behind Champousin who couldn't follow. There was a gap, Evenepoel jumped from behind Champousin and immediately attacked again. Don't think he was dropped there. He also is a tempo guy, not one to follow short punchy accelerations.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

WVA is still unhappy with Evenepoel:

Wout Van Aert still unhappy with Evenepoel: 'No major steps have been taken to clear World Championships up'

Wout van Aert has stated that communication with Remco Evenepoel is key for future success

www.cyclingweekly.com

“First of all, they were statements that we should have discussed internally," van Aert said. “There was room for that within the team, because we were together for a while after the race.

"Or Remco could have done it later, but I don't think a TV studio is the right place. And substantively I thought it was a bit strange that he knew what the tactics were, but that afterwards he claimed that it was not all that clear and that he still wanted to ride for himself. However, the national coach had been very clear when he selected Remco.”


"It was absolutely not the tactics of the team or the national coach to use Remco so early. He himself chose to attack so early, while that was earlier for Lampaert or Campenaerts. Because Remco was at the front, they were never able to carry out their task."


"It's important that we talk about this again," van Aert continued. "We will still be in selections together.

“Remco contacted me, but that was quite short. No major steps have been taken to clear it up, but that will come. Communication is important in every relationship and Remco still has to take steps in that regard.”


“What happened at the World Championships will linger, but as a person you have to be forgiving. Otherwise you will make life very difficult.

"For me, this does not stand in the way of racing together later."

 

[Sciatic]

WVA is still unhappy with Evenepoel:

Wout Van Aert still unhappy with Evenepoel: 'No major steps have been taken to clear World Championships up'

Wout van Aert has stated that communication with Remco Evenepoel is key for future success

www.cyclingweekly.com

“First of all, they were statements that we should have discussed internally," van Aert said. “There was room for that within the team, because we were together for a while after the race.

"Or Remco could have done it later, but I don't think a TV studio is the right place. And substantively I thought it was a bit strange that he knew what the tactics were, but that afterwards he claimed that it was not all that clear and that he still wanted to ride for himself. However, the national coach had been very clear when he selected Remco.”


"It was absolutely not the tactics of the team or the national coach to use Remco so early. He himself chose to attack so early, while that was earlier for Lampaert or Campenaerts. Because Remco was at the front, they were never able to carry out their task."


"It's important that we talk about this again," van Aert continued. "We will still be in selections together.

“Remco contacted me, but that was quite short. No major steps have been taken to clear it up, but that will come. Communication is important in every relationship and Remco still has to take steps in that regard.”


“What happened at the World Championships will linger, but as a person you have to be forgiving. Otherwise you will make life very difficult.

"For me, this does not stand in the way of racing together later."

In cases like this CN should make clear if the interview was in Dutch and we’re getting their translation. I feel like we’re missing some possible nuance in this conversation with the translation?

 

[Bonimenier]

In cases like this CN should make clear if the interview was in Dutch and we’re getting their translation. I feel like we’re missing some possible nuance in this conversation with the translation?

It comes from a Flemish podcast so it's translated. The translation is pretty accurate though. Van Aert said it bothered him quite a lot.

 

[Red Rick]

Door half open IMO. Makes sense cause they'll probably have to ride together for years.