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Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
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Red Rick said:
I think you get more specific the closer you get to the goal, but the Giro has a huge range of different efforts, so I would expect them to do the efforts last that taper off the quickest.

Roglic specifically has mentioned that he hadn't done 20 minutes efforts at race pace yet, so it's likely he had only done shorter intervals before he came down from altitude.

I generally don't really know what a final training block looks like for GT riders, if you watch trainer videos they're not that geared towards GT riders specifically, so there's a bit of a black box for me.

I do know that Pogacar allegedly beat the Stelvio and Gavia KoMs in training before last years Tour, so presumably there are some long all out efforts as well.
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Excellent point. It varies from each rider and what form they bring into an event. Strategy develops from that as racing is seldom totally predictable and Week 3 is the one known obstacle for all. Everyone has to have some reserves to compete for GT placings or they commit to stages or domestique chores. It's an amazing process to watch play out for those interested in it.
 
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Oldermanish

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Berniece said:
This is exactly what I meant. You go for it, even if you could end up second, you try to go for it and make something happen.
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If it were a one day race and the pack was in serious chase mode Primoz would definitely collaborate IMO. When you have the GC lead it is tactically risky to isolate yourself from team assistance unless there is no other choice. There was and JV escorted him to the sprint finish. He watched Remco up to the point he knew there weren't points on the line and coasted in.
It's also easy to voice that attitude when you currently sit second and your only chance for success is to isolate the opponent. He tried and kudos to him for a professional post-race analysis. He'll be good for a long time if he keeps this up.
 
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CyclistAbi

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
This is simply not true. He didn't go as hard as possible, that's just it. He went, he stopped, he went, he stopped... he played right into the hands of Roglic. Evenepoel effectively buried himself with all these accelerations, while giving Roglic who might still be lacking the base for longer efforts, time to take a breath every time.
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So i guess you assume that without pace changing Roglič would not win the stage? Could be. But somehow i doubt it.
 
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Riek s

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
He would certainly not have lost 6 seconds, that's for sure. And whether Roglic would have won the stage, looking at stage 3 and stage 6, it certainly would not be a done deal.
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those 6 seconds are probably the most debatable if he could have avoided those. I don't think outcome wise it would have mattered. Roglic was extremely strong that day and easily followed Remco accelerations. (easier than today or on stage 3).
 
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peterfin

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There has been a lot of chatter about Remco's tactics but overall it was not that bad. The second stage he basically waited too long. I assume it's not easy to assess during the first mountain stage how good you are versus the others. If he goes too early and fails, the race is over (as he experienced in Argentina). After the third stage he spotted a weakness and wanted to capitalize on it in a similar way during the fifth stage but he underestimated Roglic's resilience. Today he took his only option. I think he knew that Roglic would, most likely, be not helpful at all. His extroverted gestures are just part of his fighting spirit. He clearly knew when he had to give up. He also understood why he had to recapture that boni second. The difference between 10s an 11s is important if it comes to a new sprint tomorrow. He also did try to grab a few more seconds and showed again that his sprinting has improved. He will not give before he passed the finish line tomorrow. It could be fun.
 
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Big Doopie

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peterfin said:
There has been a lot of chatter about Remco's tactics but overall it was not that bad. The second stage he basically waited too long. I assume it's not easy to assess during the first mountain stage how good you are versus the others. If he goes too early and fails, the race is over (as he experienced in Argentina). After the third stage he spotted a weakness and wanted to capitalize on it in a similar way during the fifth stage but he underestimated Roglic's resilience. Today he took his only option. I think he knew that Roglic would, most likely, be not helpful at all. His extroverted gestures are just part of his fighting spirit. He clearly knew when he had to give up. He also understood why he had to recapture that boni second. The difference between 10s an 11s is important if it comes to a new sprint tomorrow. He also did try to grab a few more seconds and showed again that his sprinting has improved. He will not give before he passed the finish line tomorrow. It could be fun.
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Agreed. Reminded me much of that amazing last stage of Itzulia last year where he kept fighting back and took the bonus sprint just before the last climb when he faltered.

He’s a fighter.
 
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Wvv

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Andre said:
Remco speaks English very good. When I was going to school in Belgium they only taught us Flamand and Latin ...but that was a while ago
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I guess you grew up in the French speaking Walloon region then?

Flemish people are in general better English speakers than Walloons, because Dutch is more related to it than French. And we suffer less from the accent. Also, Flemish people younger than, let's say 60 years, became better in English than French, due to a shift in pop cultural habits (TV, music, etc ...) and in more recent generations the influence of the world wide web. In a way, the same goes for Walloon people with English compared to Dutch.

Remco is a native Dutch speaker. He is very fluent in French because of living close to Brussels and playing football at Anderlecht, and fluent in English because it's a normal thing for a Flemish person nowadays. And of course, he's a pro athlete working with international people, that helps too. He probably knows some Spanish from living and training there, and will understand some German and Italian as well.
 
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Extinction

Extinction

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CyclistAbi said:
So i guess you assume that without pace changing Roglič would not win the stage? Could be. But somehow i doubt it.
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I would not assume Remco would have won, no. In fact, as I have already written twice, it's more likely he still would have lost. However, the main problem was that he shot his bullet too soon, which didn't reach the line. To correct that mistake, for a mistake it was, he waits for Primoz to fire 50-75 meters closer to the finish and then tries to surpass him. Again, with the legs Roglic showed, I doubt Evenepoel would have been able to take the win, but he certainly would not have blown up 50 meters too soon and lost those 6 secs. Maybe he only loses a couple of seconds. Maybe he crosses the line on the wheel and gets the same time.

In the Giro it probably wouldn't matter so much, because 6 secs won't likely mean the difference between first and second on the GC (although not impossibily); whereas here, unfortunately for Evenepoel, that mistake could cost him dearly in the final standings.
 
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Riek s

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Extinction said:
I would not assume Remco would have won, no. In fact, as I have already written twice, it's more likely he still would have lost. However, the main problem was that he shot his bullet too soon, which didn't reach the line. To correct that mistake, for a mistake it was, he waits for Primoz to fire 50-75 meters closer to the finish and then tries to surpass him. Again, with the legs Roglic showed, I doubt Evenepoel would have been able to take the win, but he certainly would not have blown up 50 meters too soon and lost those 6 secs. Maybe he only loses a couple of seconds. Maybe he crosses the line on the wheel and gets the same time.

In the Giro it probably wouldn't matter so much, because 6 secs won't likely mean the difference between first and second on the GC (although not impossibily); whereas here, unfortunately for Evenepoel, that mistake could cost him dearly in the final standings.
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But Remco's intention was to drop Roglic/suprise him. If he succeeded it would have been brilliant as well.
If we just want him to play safe for every second its just pacing to top by a domestique and then a bunch sprint. I rather prefer the 'try and see' method instead of the 'wait and see'. (especially for this smaller stage race)

One could argue that the time boni at the finish and intermediates are to big for small stage races. Since a sprint victory gives you a major advantage. But that is part of the racing rules, so need to suck it up. (personally TT win should also get a time bonus, but that will also not always be in your favor)
 
Extinction

Extinction

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Riek s said:
But Remco's intention was to drop Roglic/suprise him. If he succeeded it would have been brilliant as well.
If we just want him to play safe for every second its just pacing to top by a domestique and then a bunch sprint. I rather prefer the 'try and see' method instead of the 'wait and see'. (especially for this smaller stage race)

One could argue that the time boni at the finish and intermediates are to big for small stage races. Since a sprint victory gives you a major advantage. But that is part of the racing rules, so need to suck it up. (personally TT win should also get a time bonus, but that will also not always be in your favor)
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And I'd rather see him apply the most intelligent tactic in the given moment. Look, as I see it, he loses either way in that sprint, but he doesn't lose unecessary time with lucid judgment. And while I doubt it, if he had any chance of taking the win, it was coming around him at the line.

At any rate, by waiting for Roglic to jump first doesn't mean not trying to win. It means in that scenario, being the cold-blooded cunctator.
 
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