Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Extinction]

Ah, well that's too bad. Roglič just stronger. Chapeau to him!

Faster with help from stupidity. I'd like to see ob

This is what I responded to. Not an interpretation, not an opinion. A factual statement. A false statement.

If you are so presumptuous as to think Nibali didn't know what he was talking about then you are wasting your time with me. You want to put footage before being there, go ahead.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Good performance on stage 5.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Good performance on stage 5.

He's been a better teammate to Roglic than the Jumbo guys, so i understand your sentiment.

 

[CyclistAbi]

He's been a better teammate to Roglic than the Jumbo guys, so i understand your sentiment.

Nah. He gave it his best. As he had to try just that if he wanted to move forward in GC. Roglič was just better. No shame in that. On top of that Remco said in his post race interview Roglič is an idol to him. And that he for sure will try again. Hence it's not the end of the world.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Nah. He gave it his best. As he had to try just that if he wanted to move forward in GC. Roglič was just better. No shame in that. On top of that Remco said in his post race interview Roglič is an idol to him. And that he for sure will try again. Hence it's not the end of the world.

Roglic was smarter. Or in this case it would be more fitting to say, Remco was dumber. He did not give it his best, he played right into the hands of Roglic.

 

[Andre]

I believe some of the tactics in his sprints have cost him at least 6 or 7 seconds so far. But it's great to see him going for it in every stage

 

[Andre]

The stage where Cicone won, I think Remco had a great chance to finish second at least...then the early celebration may have cost him another second or two...and then today he had a chance of not exploding and maybe saving a few more seconds. Merde! he could have been leading the general

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Logic-is-your-friend

Still hard to blame him for that. It's unrealistic to expect Remco will beat Roglič at every race or stage. Roglič is just too good for honestly believing that.

What QS and Remco did today is they went as hard as possible. And that wasn't enough. If they would approach it differently and the outcome would be the same. Then i am sure that some would blame them on why didn't they just go as hard as possible. As Roglič surely would get dropped.

If you listened to Eurosport commentators. It was more or less a sure thing. Just any moment now. For Remco to dust Roglič today.

It usually just doesn't work like that against Roglič and hence no shame in that.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

@Logic-is-your-friend

Still hard to blame him for that. It's unrealistic to expect Remco will beat Roglič at every race or stage. Roglič is just too good for honestly believing that.

What QS and Remco did today is they went as hard as possible. And that wasn't enough. If they would approach it differently and the outcome would be the same. Then i am sure that some would blame them on why didn't they just go as hard as possible. As Roglič surely would get dropped.

If you listened to Eurosport commentators. It was more or less a sure thing. Just any moment now. For Remco to dust Roglič today.

It usually just doesn't work like that against Roglič and hence no shame in that.

I love the magnanimity in victory. I honestly think that non-Roglic fans literally thought that Pogacar, Vingegaard, and Remco could drop him at will and beat him every day at this point. I was almost talked into that viewpoint myself.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I love the magnanimity in victory. I honestly think that non-Roglic fans literally thought that Pogacar, Vingegaard, and Remco could drop him at will and beat him every day at this point. I was almost talked into that viewpoint myself.

Yeah. That was more or less fake news. This day and age you must be careful not to subject yourself to such news. And true it's not always easy.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

What QS and Remco did today is they went as hard as possible. And that wasn't enough. If they would approach it differently and the outcome would be the same.

This is simply not true. He didn't go as hard as possible, that's just it. He went, he stopped, he went, he stopped... he played right into the hands of Roglic. Evenepoel effectively buried himself with all these accelerations, while giving Roglic who might still be lacking the base for longer efforts, time to take a breath every time.

 

[Netserk]

Roglic was smarter. Or in this case it would be more fitting to say, Remco was dumber. He did not give it his best, he played right into the hands of Roglic.

Absolutely. I couldn't believe Rogla's luck (and my own) to see him race like that, but afterwards I'm curious if Rogla would have won even if Evenepoel had allowed another team to pace after QS and then committed to a single attack 1-2 km from the line.

 

[Red Rick]

Absolutely. I couldn't believe Rogla's luck (and my own) to see him race like that, but afterwards I'm curious if Rogla would have won even if Evenepoel had allowed another team to pace after QS and then committed to a single attack 1-2 km from the line.

No team could pace hard enough for that.

It's not like Roglic was barely hanging on or that his body language looked bad, and it's not like he barely won that sprint cause Evenepoel started just a touch early. He put the seconds into him. It's not like you can recover easily if you're a weaker climber when say Almeida or Soler are doing career high performances.

I think it's possible that Evenepoel simply went as hard as he could for like a full km with Roglic in the wheel and saw 0 weakness, so he stopped. Or do I have to extrapolate that 13s gap to Almeida and assume they could have put 45 seconds into him when the climbing numbers were already stratospheric.

It's a much more plausible explanation that Evenepoel didn't go harder because he couldn't rather than he was too stupid to do it. If he even was better, and that's quite the if IMO, it was definitely so marginal that he would have never dropped Roglic by just riding tempo.

 

[steffr222]

He seemed to be the strongest yesterday. But just didn‘t play it smart. Just watched the re-live as I couldn‘t watch yesterday and I just couldn‘t believe how stupid Remco played that.

But: Learning effect guaranteed, for sure.

 

[Netserk]

No team could pace hard enough for that.

It's not like Roglic was barely hanging on or that his body language looked bad, and it's not like he barely won that sprint cause Evenepoel started just a touch early. He put the seconds into him. It's not like you can recover easily if you're a weaker climber when say Almeida or Soler are doing career high performances.

I think it's possible that Evenepoel simply went as hard as he could for like a full km with Roglic in the wheel and saw 0 weakness, so he stopped. Or do I have to extrapolate that 13s gap to Almeida and assume they could have put 45 seconds into him when the climbing numbers were already stratospheric.

It's a much more plausible explanation that Evenepoel didn't go harder because he couldn't rather than he was too stupid to do it. If he even was better, and that's quite the if IMO, it was definitely so marginal that he would have never dropped Roglic by just riding tempo.

You don't think UAE would pace for Almeida's podium? (Probably not, Soler would instead attack for the stage win ...)

 

[Red Rick]

You don't think UAE would pace for Almeida's podium? (Probably not, Soler would instead attack for the stage win ...)

Would it leave Roglic and Evenepoel more tired than going into the final sprint? No I don't think so. In the best case they would set Almeidas pace, not drop Roglic pace.

 

[Netserk]

Would it leave Roglic and Evenepoel more tired than going into the final sprint? No I don't think so. In the best case they would set Almeidas pace, not drop Roglic pace.

Evenepoel's first (half-assed) attack was with 4.6 km to go on a 8.54 km climb, 12'51'' from the finish of a 23'51'' effort. Only 40 seconds after Evenepoel had attacked, Soler had bridged and counter-attacked. So the first attack from Evenepoel was not an extended effort, but it got him to the front early on the climb and played it optimally for Rogla.

Even a "modest" Almedia pace for an additional 2 km before a committed attack would obviously be far better.

 

[Netserk]

It was as if when Van Wilder could no longer pull that Evenepoel felt compelled to attack as the onus was on him to gain time. But it was the wrong time to attack, and it was the wrong way to attack. He had other options, but picked a really poor one.

 

[Valv.Piti]

To me it just looked like Roglic was the better rider plain and simple, or at least as strong which is all he needed. I dont buy the terrible tactics-takes, Roglic was a monster yesterday and Remco couldnt drop him. Thats just what it is.

 

[Netserk]

To me it just looked like Roglic was the better rider plain and simple, or at least as strong which is all he needed. I dont buy the terrible tactics-takes, Roglic was a monster yesterday and Remco couldnt drop him. Thats just what it is.

I agree that Rogla was very strong. All the more interesting if that also meant that he would outdo an optimal effort by Evenepoel. Maybe he would, but we can't be sure.

 

[theyoungest]

I love the magnanimity in victory. I honestly think that non-Roglic fans literally thought that Pogacar, Vingegaard, and Remco could drop him at will and beat him every day at this point. I was almost talked into that viewpoint myself.

I'm sorry but Remco isn't in that league (yet). I know his fans like to see it differently, but I think the Pogi and Vingegaard we saw in the Tour can drop current Remco at will on any serious climb. Doesn't mean the potential isn't there, of course.

 

[Riek s]

The conclusion remains the same for Remco, don't let your team reel in the break. if others want to go for the boni seconds, let them work, don't do it yourself. (or at least when faster people are present).

If competition attacks you, don't go to their wheel, just keep a specific distance. Don't let them profit from you. at least if you are both riding with the nose in the wind its better for you than you lessening the drag or blowing your sprint. (because it seemed Remco is not using the baking soda yet, he can't keep accelerating like mvdp, pog, roglic, ..). So if he keeps attacking, or following attacks like that he will waste more crucial energy than pacing it a bit more and let the other sudder it. i still believe if they would both climb themselves, Remco would be ahead. (would be good to see a MTT against them.. and last day of a GT other factors are at plpay)

And if you feel really good and want to go, go and believe in your strengths and avoid doing things what others are good at (like Logic already indicated).

ITs a pity that he has build up a nice end-burst, but against the like he is competing now (or future) it is not a reliable sure win. (unlike versus the likes of Mas).

 

[Red Rick]

The conclusion remains the same for Remco, don't let your team reel in the break. if others want to go for the boni seconds, let them work, don't do it yourself. (or at least when faster people are present).

If competition attacks you, don't go to their wheel, just keep a specific distance. Don't let them profit from you. at least if you are both riding with the nose in the wind its better for you than you lessening the drag or blowing your sprint. (because it seemed Remco is not using the baking soda yet, he can't keep accelerating like mvdp, pog, roglic, ..). So if he keeps attacking, or following attacks like that he will waste more crucial energy than pacing it a bit more and let the other sudder it. i still believe if they would both climb themselves, Remco would be ahead. (would be good to see a MTT against them.. and last day of a GT other factors are at plpay)

And if you feel really good and want to go, go and believe in your strengths and avoid doing things what others are good at (like Logic already indicated).

ITs a pity that he has build up a nice end-burst, but against the like he is competing now (or future) it is not a reliable sure win. (unlike versus the likes of Mas).

It was a meme Spanish pro conti break, they don't stay away unless literally no team paces. And even less effort before the climb didn't would not have helped Evenepoel.

I think the obvious mistakes were the sprint on stage 1 and the celebration on stage 3, for the rest it's a bit heavy on hindsight. I think maybe he was too confident for Lo Port, but it appears basically everyone thought he would crack Roglic there. I saw the interview with Mike Woods who had seen them take off and during the interview asks "Evenepoel won right? " and was very surprised to hear Roglic had beaten him.

 

[Riek s]

It was a meme Spanish pro conti break, they don't stay away unless literally no team paces. And even less effort before the climb didn't would not have helped Evenepoel.

I think the obvious mistakes were the sprint on stage 1 and the celebration on stage 3, for the rest it's a bit heavy on hindsight. I think maybe he was too confident for Lo Port, but it appears basically everyone thought he would crack Roglic there. I saw the interview with Mike Woods who had seen them take off and during the interview asks "Evenepoel won right? " and was very surprised to hear Roglic had beaten him.

I was more pointing to the Giro. Its clear here that it wouldn't have differed. If he timed everything perfectly, he would have still lost yesterday. Maybe not with 6 seconds, but he would have lost the sprint. Which would put him @ 4 seconds behind

I didn't hear Michael Woods comment though. Seems like someof the peleton are surprised by the level of Roglic. (Woods also rode Tirreno it seems)

 

[Red Rick]

I was more pointing to the Giro. Its clear here that it wouldn't have differed. If he timed everything perfectly, he would have still lost yesterday. Maybe not with 6 seconds, but he would have lost the sprint. Which would put him @ 4 seconds behind

I didn't hear Michael Woods comment though. Seems like someof the peleton are surprised by the level of Roglic. (Woods also rode Tirreno it seems)

For the Giro it should be very important to recalibrate very quickly. I don't necessarily think both their levels will be the same on the same type of stages as now.

Both have yet to improve, but in different areas if that makes sense? It sounds like Evenepoel has yet to lose a bit of weight, while Roglic has yet to do more high intensity training.