Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[ManicJack]

Remco said he witnessed the crash today

Explains why he descended like a grandma on crutches. He wasn't going to take any chances given how he also once took the expressway down a mountain

They were in front of him?

 

[Bonimenier]

Now that someone has mentioned Roglič (I wasn't going to say anything for reasons relating to 'fanboy' accusations), I'll say for me the biggest takeaway (& lesson here) with regards to Evenepoel's performance in Suisse is this pretty much correlates with Rog's performance in the Vuelta 2022: Rog had only 2 weeks training before the Vuelta (after needing to rest up as a result of his TdF injury) & his performance was 'meh' in the mountains. He lacked depth on the longer climbs & harder stages. He was eventually coming into some form after a further two weeks within that Vuelta but his first week numbers were way below his usual level.

We're seeing something very similar here with Evenepoel after his Giro DNF & sickness last month. He just lacks form, basically. It says nothing about his normal level nor his potential.

And he can still win the Tour de Suisse as well for what it's worth, even though it just got much harder after today because despite being a bit inconsistent himself due to his own injury problem earlier this season, Ayuso is not a bad time trialist, so losing that much time versus Ayuso today was not great for Evenepoel's GC hopes.

Roglic fanboy

 

[houtdffan]

They were in front of him?

Sheffield must have been as Remco saw that one

 

[Rackham]

Roglic fanboy

Okay.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

They were in front of him?

Sheffield was in the group just ahead of him.
Mäder came later.

 

[Bonimenier]

They were in front of him?

Can't see someone crash behind you, can you?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

They were in front of him?

There was a gap right before the top. With 300m to go, Evenepoel let go of the group with Skjelmose, where Sheffield was holding on.

 

[Netserk]

Has Evenepoel’s week stage race start been similar to Roglic and Vinge? Yes.

No. In his first 5 WT seasons, he hasn't won any of the biggest one-week stage races. Only once been on the podium.

He won the Velo d'Or last year, a similar point in his career trajectory as Rogla in 2019. Comparing Evenepoel now to Rogla in 2017 is not comparing likes to likes.

 

[Berniece]

No. In his first 5 WT seasons, he hasn't won any of the biggest one-week stage races. Only once been on the podium.

He won the Velo d'Or last year, a similar point in his career trajectory as when Rogla won the Velo d'Or in 2019. Comparing Evenepoel now to Rogla in 2017 is not comparing likes to likes.

Lol, there's an age difference maybe?

 

[Riek s]

No. In his first 5 WT seasons, he hasn't won any of the biggest one-week stage races. Only once been on the podium.

He won the Velo d'Or last year, a similar point in his career trajectory as Rogla in 2019. Comparing Evenepoel now to Rogla in 2017 is not comparing likes to likes.

but comparing the result of a 29 year old athlete with a 19 year old is ?

 

[Netserk]

Lol, there's an age difference maybe?

Who do you think was closest to his career top level: Evenepoel last year or Rogla in 2017?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Now that someone has mentioned Roglič (I wasn't going to say anything for reasons relating to 'fanboy' accusations), I'll say for me the biggest takeaway (& lesson here) with regards to Evenepoel's performance in Suisse is this pretty much correlates with Rog's performance in the Vuelta 2022: Rog had only 2 weeks training before the Vuelta (after needing to rest up as a result of his TdF injury) & his performance was 'meh' in the mountains. He lacked depth on the longer climbs & harder stages. He was eventually coming into some form after a further two weeks within that Vuelta but his first week numbers were way below his usual level.

We're seeing something very similar here with Evenepoel after his Giro DNF & sickness last month. He just lacks form, basically. It says nothing about his normal level nor his potential.

And he can still win the Tour de Suisse as well for what it's worth, even though it just got much harder after today because despite being a bit inconsistent himself due to his own injury problem earlier this season, Ayuso is not a bad time trialist, so losing that much time versus Ayuso today was not great for Evenepoel's GC hopes.

In top form he should certainly be able close the gap with Skjelmose and Ayuso in the TT. Now they are equally dangerous imho. If he goes for bonis tomorrow and the day after, or even a stage win, i think he would still be the favorite overall. If he closes the gap with Skjelmose to 30 seconds and with Ayuso to 20 seconds or so.

But as it stands, this can go 3 ways.

 

[Bonimenier]

Why are people comparing Evenepoel to Roglic? It's like comparing an F1 car to a tricycle.

 

[Berniece]

Who do you think was closest to his career top level: Evenepoel last year or Rogla in 2017?

I don't understand what that has to do with it. You started by saying look at how many more 1-week races Roglic won when he was racing 5 years, but due to the age difference and Remco's lost year they aren't comparable.

First young riders get eased into the peloton more carefully. Secondly after the crash, you can't really count 2021 for Remco since his team and himself completely *** up that recovery.

 

[SHAD0W93]

No. In his first 5 WT seasons, he hasn't won any of the biggest one-week stage races. Only once been on the podium.

He won the Velo d'Or last year, a similar point in his career trajectory as Rogla in 2019. Comparing Evenepoel now to Rogla in 2017 is not comparing likes to likes.

While that is true on their seasons, like I said Evenepoel has also focused on the classics, monuments, worlds, and EC as well while Roglic and Vinge had their focus on GC in GT and week stage races.

Now there of course is Pog but Pog has been shown to be on an even higher pedestal.

 

[Netserk]

I don't understand what that has to do with it. You started by saying look at how many more 1-week races Roglic won when he was racing 5 years, but due to the age difference and Remco's lost year they aren't comparable.

First young riders get eased into the peloton more carefully. Secondly after the crash, you can't really count 2021 for Remco since his team and himself completely *** up that recovery.

I didn't bring Rogla up here.

What it has to do with it? Last year, the year he won the Velo d'Or, Evenepoel had a worse track record in the biggest one-week stage races than Rogla did in 2017, the first year he was Jumbo's captain in them.

If you want to compare Evenepoel's result in those races so far to those of Rogla, it doesn't make sense to compare Evenepoel now to Rogla back in 2017. That's what @SHAD0W93 did, and which I disagree.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Why are people comparing Evenepoel to Roglic? It's like comparing an F1 car to a tricycle.

But a tricycle that has flame stickers attached making the differences negligible.

 

[Extinction]

I didn't bring Rogla up here.

What it has to do with it? Last year, the year he won the Velo d'Or, Evenepoel had a worse track record in the biggest one-week stage races than Rogla did in 2017, the first year he was Jumbo's captain in them.

If you want to compare Evenepoel's result in those races so far to those of Rogla, it doesn't make sense to compare Evenepoel now to Rogla back in 2017. That's what @SHAD0W93 did, and which I disagree.

The competition is simply higher. When Roglic, since this has been brought up, was a young promise, the next generation was yet to come. Now we are witnessing something crazy. And who knows where it will finish?

 

[Scarponi]

Why are people comparing Evenepoel to Roglic? It's like comparing an F1 car to a tricycle.

Don’t be so harsh on Remco. I’d say Roglic is the middle of the pack f1 that can win at Monaco and Remco is the safety car at the moment

 

[bNator]

Th

The argument is like two other GT winners, Evenepoel is on the same track as they were in their first 5 week stage races. Evenepoel also unlike them had been focusing on the classics, monuments, and worlds during this time. You’re have brought up the standings of Pog and Vinge to belittle Evenepoel. Is Evenepoel’s sample size small? Yes. Is he going to ride as many of these as Roglic, Pog, or Vinge? No, probably not. Has Evenepoel’s week stage race start been similar to Roglic and Vinge? Yes.

Or is the constant belittling because Evenepoel has won a lot of the smaller week races? Which is better than his peers.

Ok but you have to provide some additional context here. While Roglic and Vingegaard were more or less considered domestiques during majority of their first 5 week stage races, Evenepoel was always considered team leader. Not to mention the Eddy Mercx comparison… That’s why his results could be perceived as not so convincing even if they are similar to the former duo. The yardstick for him is high since the beginning so he is naturally under more scrutiny.

And yes, he could always fall back to “just“ having great palmares as a classics rider, but that’s not what the majority of his fans expected of him…

Everything about Remco is always bound to the expectations and in this regard, I feel rather sorry for him - he really is under a lot of pressure… because even if he achieves great palamres as a classics rider, it will not be enough for his fans, while the sceptics (myself included, to some extent) will always be happy to remind everyone their assumption that he is over-hyped was correct.

Additionally, it's not that different with other established riders. Roglič for instance, even when he wins, is "accused" of all sorts of things, from being less convincing than previous season, to being a boring mountain sprinter. He just won the Giro, which in opinion of many in this forum would not have happened had Remco still been in the race. Last years Vuelta, outside his fanbase, there was very little understanding for his recovery from breaking his verterbrae. Etc., etc....

 

[Elos Anjos]

Why are people comparing Evenepoel to Roglic? It's like comparing an F1 car to a tricycle.

Fair comparison. Having a F1 car is pointless in many surfaces as its performance depends on optimal conditions whereas a tricycle is usually versatile, reliable and it's fun to watch.

 

[Tonton]

Why are people comparing Evenepoel to Roglic? It's like comparing an F1 car to a tricycle.

Well, the tricycle just won Il Giro and the F1 car has flat tyres. That's where we're at.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Ok but you have to provide some additional context here. While Roglic and Vingegaard were more or less considered domestiques during majority of their first 5 week stage races, Evenepoel was always considered team leader. Not to mention the Eddy Mercx comparison… That’s why his results could be perceived as not so convincing even if they are similar to the former duo. The yardstick for him is high since the beginning so he is naturally under more scrutiny.

And yes, he could always fall back to “just“ having great palmares as a classics rider, but that’s not what the majority of his fans expected of him…

Everything about Remco is always bound to the expectations and in this regard, I feel rather sorry for him - he really is under a lot of pressure… because even if he achieves great palamres as a classics rider, it will not be enough for his fans, while the sceptics (myself included, to some extent) will always be happy to remind everyone their assumption that he is over-hyped was correct.

Additionally, it's not that different with other established riders. Roglič for instance, even when he wins, is "accused" of all sorts of things, from being less convincing than previous season, to being a boring mountain sprinter. He just won the Giro, which in opinion of many in this forum would not have happened had Remco still been in the race. Last years Vuelta, outside his fanbase, there was very little understanding for his recovery from breaking his verterbrae. Etc., etc....

Here’s your context.

I brought up Roglic because it was the Roglic fans crapping on Evenepoel.

Roglic was the out right leader of the team in 2017 in the stage races while he was the best placed rider on the team in a 2016 race and potential coleader with Gesink and Kruijswijk, none of the three being remotely close to a top 10. Vingegaard was a domestique in three of the races. Evenepoel while having those high expectations that he has not lived up to being placed on him, didn’t focus on the week stage races like the Jumbo riders. Evenepoel focused has been split between those, classics, and the smaller week races. In the past it was considered an extreme rarity to do well in all of those facets in the same year besides Valverde and Pogacar. Evenepoel also was younger than the two Jumbos and had a devasting crash, with both Jumbos having crash setbacks as well and we are unable to judge how severe each was to the specific rider. Roglic was also starting to receive a growing hype after each race on this forum but obviously not to Evenepoel’s magnitude. Would the hype be way to high on WT stage races, yes I agree with you. But that doesn’t mean he is a slouch in the races.

I feel sorry too, he’s had so much hype put on him that any failure to live up to it, he gets crapped on. Even when he succeeds he gets crapped on by some. It’s like when children of famous athletes or stars have to live up to their parents and attempt to get out of their spotlight.

Roglic, like others in the past has been doubted because of the crashes adding up and age. Without the crashes last year I would have him just below Pog and Vinge and above Evenepoel for stage racing. Is it far he’s called a boring mountain sprinter, no but it is accurate at this point in his career. Has he gone long range attacks, yes but rarely when close the lead. I’m not going to hate someone for riding to the best of their ability and winning. The goal is to win and Roglic has been consistently winning for a long time. I don’t know who would have won if no crashes or sickness as Roglic was hampered by crashes as well but my money would have been Evenepoel before the race. That doesn’t diminish Roglic’s win at all as you can only beat who you race and he dominated the last stage. Maybe I’m misremembering but there was understanding before the Vuelta that he could struggle based on his severe injury from all sides. Roglic was also hyped up to win by his fans and others leading to a constant bickering between the two camps. Any weakness Roglic showed, Evenepoel’s camp would belittle Roglic in retaliation to them receiving it from Roglic’s side. The worst came though after the Wright crash. It’s a vicious cycle.

I’m a fan of both riders and like each camps members but both get tiring though I’ve soured a little on Roglic’s camp since the Wright crash. Hard to imagine but I picked Roglic to win and supported him at 19 Giro, 20 Tour, Vuelta’ he won, and the Olympic TT.

Do I want Evenepoel to win? Yes, just like I want Pogacar, Pinot, and Cavendish to win as frequently as they can and root for them in the races.

I think the forum as a whole would be a better place with less Evenepoel hype by fans and ridicule by anti fans that will slowly spill into the other threads.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Well, the tricycle just won Il Giro and the F1 car has flat tyres. That's where we're at.

But F1 does have a good pit crew.


And I thought Evenepoel was the hypothetical tricycle due to being called Bambi so needing more wheels on the ground?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Here’s your context.

I brought up Roglic because it was the Roglic fans crapping on Evenepoel.

Roglic was the out right leader of the team in 2017 in the stage races while he was the best placed rider on the team in a 2016 race and potential coleader with Gesink and Kruijswijk, none of the three being remotely close to a top 10. Vingegaard was a domestique in three of the races. Evenepoel while having those high expectations that he has not lived up to being placed on him, didn’t focus on the week stage races like the Jumbo riders. Evenepoel focused has been split between those, classics, and the smaller week races. In the past it was considered an extreme rarity to do well in all of those facets in the same year besides Valverde and Pogacar. Evenepoel also was younger than the two Jumbos and had a devasting crash, with both Jumbos having crash setbacks as well and we are unable to judge how severe each was to the specific rider. Roglic was also starting to receive a growing hype after each race on this forum but obviously not to Evenepoel’s magnitude. Would the hype be way to high on WT stage races, yes I agree with you. But that doesn’t mean he is a slouch in the races.

I feel sorry too, he’s had so much hype put on him that any failure to live up to it, he gets crapped on. Even when he succeeds he gets crapped on by some. It’s like when children of famous athletes or stars have to live up to their parents and attempt to get out of their spotlight.

Roglic, like others in the past has been doubted because of the crashes adding up and age. Without the crashes last year I would have him just below Pog and Vinge and above Evenepoel for stage racing. Is it far he’s called a boring mountain sprinter, no but it is accurate at this point in his career. Has he gone long range attacks, yes but rarely when close the lead. I’m not going to hate someone for riding to the best of their ability and winning. The goal is to win and Roglic has been consistently winning for a long time. I don’t know who would have won if no crashes or sickness as Roglic was hampered by crashes as well but my money would have been Evenepoel before the race. That doesn’t diminish Roglic’s win at all as you can only beat who you race and he dominated the last stage. Maybe I’m misremembering but there was understanding before the Vuelta that he could struggle based on his severe injury from all sides. Roglic was also hyped up to win by his fans and others leading to a constant bickering between the two camps. Any weakness Roglic showed, Evenepoel’s camp would belittle Roglic in retaliation to them receiving it from Roglic’s side. The worst came though after the Wright crash. It’s a vicious cycle.

I’m a fan of both riders and like members but both get tiring though I’ve soured a little on Roglic’s camp since the Wright crash. Hard to imagine but I picked Roglic to win and supported him at 19 Giro, 20 Tour, Vuelta’ he won, and the Olympic TT.

Do I want Evenepoel to win? Yes, just like I want Pogacar, Pinot, and Cavendish to win as frequently as they can and root for them in the races.

I think the forum as a whole would be a better place with less Evenepoel hype by fans and ridicule by anti fans that will slowly spill into the other threads.

I agree with pretty much all of this. I don’t consider myself as partisan though. Honestly, it’d be nice if there was a real villain to route against here, but IMO all of the current riders are degrees of likable. For some reason, my preferences run Roglic > Pogacar > Remco > Vingegaard but I more or less like all of them and want to see them all at their best. I don’t really get why some hate on any of the riders, though I do think Vingegaard’s post stage phone calls are obnoxious so I understand that most.

I agree the GC comparisons aren’t apples to apples but surely we can all agree that Remco’s stage race palmares are not what one might expect. Plenty of time to fix that though.