Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Salvarani]

Nice when "new" posters come in and adds to the thread.

 

[seasidehiking]

It's not the coronation of a moral winner.

It's about evaluating a performance as a predictor of future performances. Nick Nuyens was a worthy winner of De Ronde, but everyone knew that it wouldn't make him a favourite for the following year's edition.

So you are comparing Nuyens with Evenepoel. Nice try 😂

 

[Netserk]

So you are comparing Nuyens with Evenepoel. Nice try 😂

I'm not. I used the example of Nuyens to illustrate a general point.

 

[Andy schleck]

and against a Mas who was on Pog's form as shown in the italian classics

The all mighty Mas 🤣 logic is your friend would be proud of you.

 

[Netserk]

I think you are re-writing history a little. Arguably Remco would have won two grand tours in a row. Last Vuelta and this years Giro. He was in grand form, obliterated the opponents on first TT and won 2nd even when ill. Remember the words of Thomas: little pr*ck, when a sick Remco beat him… chances are higher that he would have won and beat Thomas in the Giro, which would have made 2 GT’s in two year versus 0. But we will never know, since its opinions. Facts were Remco was first with two stage wins and then fell ill and had to leave at a moment where he still was first.

He was dropped on the first hill raced by the GC contenders.

 

[seasidehiking]

He was dropped on the first hill raced by the GC contenders.

Yeah and ofcourse the positive covid test 24hrs later wont have had anything to do with it. Incubation periods etc dont count when its Evenepoel.

 

[Big Doopie]

He was dropped on the first hill raced by the GC contenders.

Um…he was obviously just starting to be affected by Covid.

He only dropped time in the Vuelta on stages he was recovering from his crash.

Don’t cherry-pick and ignore ailments that you use as excuses for other riders.

Peak Remco is all that should be debated.

Having said that, absolutely no idea if peak Remco can battle with TDF Vingo or Pog. Anything less will certainly not be good enough.

And doubters can have at it.

However, one does not have to diminish the absolutely amazing achievements he has had by age 23 to have perfectly valid questions about his ability to eventually challenge those two in the high mountains of the TDF. I do too. But my doubts have nothing to do with how he has performed to date. On the contrary. They simply have to do with where he is yet unproven: successive high mountains in a race like the TDF. It's really that simple.

 

[houtdffan]

He was dropped on the first hill raced by the GC contenders.

yeah, by a whole 5 seconds while having covid!

 

[seasidehiking]

Um…he was obviously just starting to be affected by Covid.

He only dropped time in the Vuelta on stages he was recovering from his crash.

Don’t cherry pick and ignore ailments that you use as excuses for other riders.

Peak Remco is all that should be debated.

Having said that, absolutely no idea if peak Remco can battle with TDF Vingo or Pog. And doubters can have at it. But you do not have to diminish the absolutely amazing achievements he has had by age 23 to have valid questions about his ability to eventually challenge those two in the high mountains of the TDF.

Thats exactly my point.

I think racers should be compared when they were at a similar age. Where was Vinge? Pog was obviously already the best! Roglic, difficult cause he came into cycling later. Thomas was what 28/29 when he became a contender for GT? Bernal was obviously pretty young too and was higher then Remco in my opinion, but we know about Bernal his misfortune.

 

[seasidehiking]

Nice when "new" posters come in and adds to the thread.

With new posters, you probably mean posters who not hold the opinion then yours?

 

[tobydawq]

He hasn't proven himself as a top-dog stage racer yet. It does sound a bit weird considering he won the Vuelta. But so did Simon Yates... Until he beats Roglic (last year can't really count), Pog or Vinge and beats them consistently, until he does that, his reputation regarding stage racing preceeds him...

LOL

 

[Riek s]

This is a pointless debate (most people that i see active now have had their specific position since 2022)

 

[bNator]

Um…he was obviously just starting to be affected by Covid.

He only dropped time in the Vuelta on stages he was recovering from his crash.

Don’t cherry-pick and ignore ailments that you use as excuses for other riders.

Peak Remco is all that should be debated.

Having said that, absolutely no idea if peak Remco can battle with TDF Vingo or Pog. Anything less will certainly not be good enough.

And doubters can have at it.

However, one does not have to diminish the absolutely amazing achievements he has had by age 23 to have perfectly valid questions about his ability to eventually challenge those two in the high mountains of the TDF. I do too. But my doubts have nothing to do with how he has performed to date. On the contrary. They simply have to do with where he is yet unproven: successive high mountains in a race like the TDF. It's really that simple.

Well you can't have it both ways. If recovery from crash and starting to be affected by covid counts as a special circumstance where Rog-Remco inter-battle is nullified then sureley recovering from broken vertebrae must count as well. I'm saying both of these occasions count and therefore we currently can't say they had a GT battle where both would be unaffected by the special circumstance.

LOL

LOL back?

 

[ManicJack]

August 26! Barely 3 weeks away.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

If Remco gets dropped, the Clinic is going to explode. Fun times ahead either way.

I mean it will also happen if he drops them.

 

[Big Doopie]

Well you can't have it both ways. If recovery from crash and starting to be affected by covid counts as a special circumstance where Rog-Remco inter-battle is nullified then sureley recovering from broken vertebrae must count as well. I'm saying both of these occasions count and therefore we currently can't say they had a GT battle where both would be unaffected by the special circumstance.

Um. U seem to be confusing me with another poster, my dear.

I never asked to have it both ways. I never downgraded Rog coming from injury (tho didn’t he win the fourth stage of the Vuelta?).

A couple of things to consider:

1. Rog’s Vuelta is not equal to Remco’s Giro. In both situations, Peak Remco had dominated events until the point at which either Rog crashed or Remco fell ill.
2. Remco’s career trajectory has nothing to do with Roglic’s. Rog is a very top cyclist no doubt about it. Remco has the POTENTIAL to be something substantially more (and I am not even talking about GTs necessarily).

There. I said it.

Let the outrage begin.

 

[bNator]

Um. U seem to be confusing me with another poster, my dear.

I never asked to have it both ways. I never downgraded Rog coming from injury (tho didn’t he win the fourth stage of the Vuelta?).

A couple of things to consider:

1. Rog’s Vuelta is not equal to Remco’s Giro. In both situations, Peak Remco had dominated events until the point at which either Rog crashed or Remco fell ill.
2. Remco’s career trajectory has nothing to do with Roglic’s. Rog is a very top cyclist no doubt about it. Remco has the POTENTIAL to be something substantially more (and I am not even talking about GTs necessarily).

There. I said it.

Let the outrage begin.

In Giro, he didn’t dominate anything. He won TTs which was to be expected, the second one by a lesser margin than expected. And he got dropped by almost everybody in I forgot what hill it was. The mountains were yet to come and his prospects didn’t look that great TBH.

 

[Big Doopie]

In Giro, he didn’t dominate anything. He won TTs which was to be expected, the second one by a lesser margin than expected. And he got dropped by almost everybody in I forgot what hill it was. The mountains were yet to come and his prospects didn’t look that great TBH.

oy. gotta repeat facts to some.

first of all he crushed the opening TT in a way that was NOT expected = dominant.

some commentators actually wondered if the giro was already over.

he was dropped for a few seconds on the type of climb that he destroyed similar riders at the vuelta. that was already no longer Peak Remco. He was already weakened by illness.

i am not sure what could actually be more dominant than winning a TT when you have full-blown Covid and look like you have it, as he did. that actually goes to how head and shoulders above everyone else he was if Peak Remco.

while i have posted many times that it is absolutely legitimate to wonder whether he would be good over multiple climbs at high altitude -- until he does it, extrapolating from a clearly (and factually) ill Remco dropping a few seconds on a climb to mean that Peak Remco would get crushed on the high mountains is just plain silly.

Peak Remco in the high mountains is something we will only get a sense of next year in July. Until then, making definitive declarations either way is...simply stupid/trolling..

 

[ManicJack]

Peak Remco in the high mountains is something we will only get a sense of next year in July. Until then, making definitive declarations either way is...simply ignorant/stupid/unintelligent.

What if he gets dropped in the low mountains in 3 weeks?

 

[houtdffan]

In Giro, he didn’t dominate anything. He won TTs which was to be expected, the second one by a lesser margin than expected. And he got dropped by almost everybody in I forgot what hill it was. The mountains were yet to come and his prospects didn’t look that great TBH.

and has already been stated


ROG. DROPPED. REMCO. BY. 5. SECONDS. WHEN. REMCO. HAD. COVID!

 

[Salvarani]

With new posters, you probably mean posters who not hold the opinion then yours?

How do you know if I agree or not? That is a big assumption. Don’t know why you are being so defensive. I was being welcoming. It was your first couple of posts even though you seem to have had your account for a while… nice that you ended up this thread all of a sudden. Hope you have a good time on here.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

This has been said a million times, but this is all a bit silly because we’ve never seen peak Rog against peak Remco in a GT. Or a peak Remco against a peak Vinge or Pogi. So we’re ally just guessing. Rog sadly might never ride a GT at peak due to luck and handling. But one can hope. None of the scenarios anyone has brought up involved a peak A vs a peak B.

In the Vuelta, Rog was coming back from a knee injury, shoulder injury, and vertebrae fracture. It’s amazing he even rode it, and was very good. And then Remco crashed. IMO we learned nothing about the relative strength.


In the Giro, Rog was rushing back from a winter of recovery from shoulder surgery, then Remco got Covid /mans Roglic crashed and still win. I don’t think we learned much there either.

IMO, anyone who “knows” that A is better than B has no basis for it. Hopefully we will see shortly.

 

[DNP-Old]

He hasn't proven himself as a top-dog stage racer yet. It does sound a bit weird considering he won the Vuelta. But so did Simon Yates... Until he beats Roglic (last year can't really count), Pog or Vinge and beats them consistently, until he does that, his reputation regarding stage racing preceeds him...

In Giro, he didn’t dominate anything. He won TTs which was to be expected, the second one by a lesser margin than expected. And he got dropped by almost everybody in I forgot what hill it was. The mountains were yet to come and his prospects didn’t look that great TBH.

😂

 

[seasidehiking]

How do you know if I agree or not? That is a big assumption. Don’t know why you are being so defensive. I was being welcoming. It was your first couple of posts even though you seem to have had your account for a while… nice that you ended up this thread all of a sudden. Hope you have a good time on here.

Haha I thought you meant as a newbie, I shouldnt comment. My bad.

I am more a reader then a writer. But when i saw this one commentor diminishing a Vuelta victory, I just had to write something. I do endurance sports myself and find it so lacking of respect. Any victory has to be done regardless the opposition.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

In Giro, he didn’t dominate anything. He won TTs which was to be expected, the second one by a lesser margin than expected. And he got dropped by almost everybody in I forgot what hill it was.

Could you give an estimated percentage on the reason in your eyes for him being dropped on that hill between “he’s not good enough” and “he tested positive for Covid the day after” ?