Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Best stretch of road to go should be after Desnie or Redoute. But UAE also knows that and they are very effective in locking down the race up to now. Probably they should try to make the race hard by attacking with van Wilder and Schachmann rather then just pace with UAE. I think a bit more of a chaotic race could be good for Remco. Can depend on Alaphilippe every race to deliver the assist.

Liege is more advantage Pogi then Amstel is but I also wouldn't give too much on the Fleche result. I think Remco could be close but I think he loses a straight up 1 on 1 against Pogi.

Ideally Desnié in case the peloton behind him is already hanging by the skin of their teeth. That gives him an 11km stretch of slightly downhill, where he can get his motor running and profit from his aero position. It would also mean whoever wants to stay in the race will have to commit completely at 50km from the finish.
However, if the race has not been made hard, and Lidl and UAE are still there with multiple domestiques, attacking there could be suicide.
If there is only a slight chance Pog's form is starting to feel long in the tooth, then they should push it, the sooner the better. Sending someone ahead in the break would be great, but i'm not so sure they would let Van Wilder go who would be the prime candidate since he is the best climber but also the best rouleur after Evenepoel. By the looks of things Schachmann isn't going to be guy to force it past km200.

See, that's the thing. You're right, there's always a reason why you lose a race. Most often, the others were faster or smarter. I would just like him to admit to that. Just one time, saying: "Hey, the other guy was stronger".

While i get the general idea, and like i said on the previous page, there is truth to what you are saying, but acting like he never admits he was beaten by a better rider is obviously complete BS. I hope you are aware of that. During the TDF last year, the WCC, Lombardia... i can't remember him even insinuating losing because of "reasons".

 

[Sciatic]

See, that's the thing. You're right, there's always a reason why you lose a race. Most often, the others were faster or smarter. I would just like him to admit to that. Just one time, saying: "Hey, the other guy was stronger".

You’re right, if he just kept it strictly to that once in a while that would come across better.

 

[Berniece]

If he was so low on energy why have his team on the front so much working their tail off for a leader who didn’t have it at all.

Do you start a race with no energy left, or does this happen gradually, and can be accelerated by for example the cold?

 

[Berniece]

See, that's the thing. You're right, there's always a reason why you lose a race. Most often, the others were faster or smarter. I would just like him to admit to that. Just one time, saying: "Hey, the other guy was stronger".

As others have pointed out, he has said this multiple times, when it’s actually the case. I think Pogacar would’ve won Flèche anyway, and Evenepoel would’ve acknowledged that if he had the chance to give his all. Which he didn’t due to the cold, and his own mistakes.

 

[Berniece]

Well, he didnt have any problems with this after Fleche.

Below is the post that (re)started this discussion about excuses. It’s quite interesting in connection with what you are saying, because it’s literally Remco being able to say someone else was stronger…


There are generally no problem to come up with explanations/excuses to why you didn’t perform as expected and also at the same time say you wouldn’t win anyway. Like Remco did just here.

I do think I added that last sentence though. He never said Pogacar would’ve won anyway, because we don’t know. I do think that was the most likely outcome.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I do think I added that last sentence though. He never said Pogacar would’ve won anyway, because we don’t know. I do think that was the most likely outcome.

*Deletes post*

 

[Kwaremonster]

Evenepoel reacts poorly to losses sometimes (as there are many others) and there is not much wrong with that in my view. I'm pretty sure there is (reluctant) acceptance when he is blown away like in the tour. All it says to me is that in this case (rightly or wrongly) he feels that he did not get to show what he was capable of and that we don't know how it would have gone if he did. I like the confidant attitude. In the end, we need people who take the fight to pogacar and imo a confidant attitude is a start.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Another of my Remco pics from last year's Paris-Nice.

https://imgur.com/AkN0Gik

View: https://i.imgur.com/AkN0Gik.jpeg

Kinda strange to think this was from PN last year. Obviously this is probably at thestart of the race or after washing up. Cause I remember Remco & co looking all grimy

 

[AmRacer]

As others have pointed out, he has said this multiple times, when it’s actually the case. I think Pogacar would’ve won Flèche anyway, and Evenepoel would’ve acknowledged that if he had the chance to give his all. Which he didn’t due to the cold, and his own mistakes.

So now it's the weather's fault 🙄

 

[Berniece]

He didn't lose his sense of humour yet

 

[ChasingPotatoes]

I think, when Remco is communicating about his losses, he is emphasizing what he could have done better himself. Only when he has done everything right and gets beaten, he will focus on his opponents being better.

So he is very self-centered, before anything else, and I see why some people don't like this. I honestly don't think that's a bad thing. It shows focus and dedication to focus on doing it better next time and keeping the faith that one day he could beat Pog. If he immediately would express that 'Pog is better', he would mentally give up believing he can beat him.

In the end, we all know that Pog is unbeatable when he does everything right, but we can only encourage the competition to try and get to Pogs level or benefit from one of the few mistakes Pog makes in a race. In any way, Remco doesn't stand a chance beating Pog if he makes rookie mistakes like with that rainjacket, and it baffles me that no one in the car is shouting in Remco's ear to keep the jacket until the last 20K, given the forecast.

 

[Berniece]

It baffles me that no one in the car is shouting in Remco's ear to keep the jacket until the last 20K, given the forecast.

They'll probably be like: "Well if he's warm, he's warm *shrug-shoulders*". A lot of riders would just open their jacket if it was too warm when climbing, and close it when it's getting cold on descent or flat sections.

 

[James M]

I don't want to come across as disrespectful to Remco. All the talk about him being cocky, I don't get that either. You want that confidence/mentality from an athlete, as long as and from what I've seen, he has no problem admitting when he's beaten by a better foe in the past either.

Anyway, regarding Sunday, I just can't see how he stands any chance unless Pogacar crashes. I mean this with no disrespect because, on paper, he's the second-best rider in the world here. Normally, no one would do a better job than him not named Pogacar. So, no disrespect intended, but I think this group will discuss his climbing prowess after the race when Pogacar nukes away at ease, and that he needs to acclimate to it.

 

[Berniece]

Anyway, regarding Sunday, I just can't see how he stands any chance unless Pogacar crashes. I mean this with no disrespect because, on paper, he's the second-best rider in the world here. Normally, no one would do a better job than him not named Pogacar. So, no disrespect intended, but I think this group will discuss his climbing prowess after the race when Pogacar nukes away at ease, and that he needs to acclimate to it.

So the only reason he got back in AGR was because Pogacar was still recovering from PR?

 

[James M]

So the only reason he got back in AGR was because Pogacar was still recovering from PR?

C'mon... Partly that, which you might as well phrase as Pogacar riding recklessly like lunatic other than as an excuse, because that's what he did, 100% entirely his own fault so the winner was well deserved.

But no one can argue that Pogacar showcased most wattage throughout, even in AGR. He was obviously still somewhat recovering from PR, being overly enthusiastic/confident, a massive headwind, along with a perfect race dynamic in the back them being two—all of which contributed to that. Doesn't mean Remco wasn't strong or anything of the sort.

 

[Berniece]

C'mon... Partly that, which you might as well phrase as Pogacar riding recklessly like lunatic other than as an excuse, because that's what he did, 100% entirely his own fault so the winner was well deserved.

But no one can argue that Pogacar showcased most wattage throughout, even in AGR. He was obviously still somewhat recovering from PR, being overly enthusiastic/confident, a massive headwind, along with a perfect race dynamic in the back them being two—all of which contributed to that. Doesn't mean Remco wasn't strong or anything of the sort.

I don't think Pogacar put in more effort compared to Evenepoel that day. Which is why I asked if you think it's mostly due to PR. It was a genuine question. Because then the idea is that if PR is out of his system, he should be stronger in Liege than he was in AGR, and thus has a higher probability of winning again.

 

[dobrien]

Do you start a race with no energy left, or does this happen gradually, and can be accelerated by for example the cold?

Agree. During the race he looked great to me, his positioning was spot on the whole day; I thought he was really going to be able to bring it at the end to be honest (even though it is not terrain which suits him.) He wouldn't be the first rider who felt fine in that kind of weather, right up until the instant it was lights out.

 

[James M]

I don't think Pogacar put in more effort compared to Evenepoel that day. Which is why I asked if you think it's mostly due to PR. It was a genuine question. Because then the idea is that if PR is out of his system, he should be stronger in Liege than he was in AGR, and thus has a higher probability of winning again.

I said partly not mostly. Several other factors I mentioned too, which by no mean are excuses but his own naivety/fault. Wattage and effort are not the same thing. But nevermind I have no intentions of diminishing his showing in AGR which was super strong nothing else, kudos to him.

Likely, but maybe not in reality, as it’s relative. He peaked for MSR, RVV, and PR. It’s natural to think he is fresher than in AGR, yes—relative to Remco, who should be on an upwards trajectory, and Pogacar, on a downward one. So even while he is more fresh than he was for his sake relative to his competitors, his form shouldn’t be. (its hard to tell that part about him to what extent, he defies logic all the time so)

Still, it won’t matter though, Pogacar can do whatever he wants with climbs after La Redoute, and objectively, he has almost the same probability as he did in Strade. You figure out the rest.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I don't think Pogacar put in more effort compared to Evenepoel that day. Which is why I asked if you think it's mostly due to PR. It was a genuine question. Because then the idea is that if PR is out of his system, he should be stronger in Liege than he was in AGR, and thus has a higher probability of winning again.

I think Liege favours w/kg riders more than Amstel and Pog has a monster engine in this regard. IMO Amstel was clearly below his average performance but i dunno if he will be better on Sunday (as i expressed even before AGR doing those races after PR was hurting his Liege chances).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Ideally Desnié in case the peloton behind him is already hanging by the skin of their teeth. That gives him an 11km stretch of slightly downhill, where he can get his motor running and profit from his aero position. It would also mean whoever wants to stay in the race will have to commit completely at 50km from the finish.
However, if the race has not been made hard, and Lidl and UAE are still there with multiple domestiques, attacking there could be suicide.
If there is only a slight chance Pog's form is starting to feel long in the tooth, then they should push it, the sooner the better. Sending someone ahead in the break would be great, but i'm not so sure they would let Van Wilder go who would be the prime candidate since he is the best climber but also the best rouleur after Evenepoel. By the looks of things Schachmann isn't going to be guy to force it past km200.

Dirk De Wolf, winner of LBL '92 says: "Ik denk dat ze al zullen vertrekken op de Côte de Desnié, zo'n 10 kilometer voor La Redoute."

- "I think they will go at it on Côte de Desnié, about 10 km before La Redoute"

So he is very self-centered, before anything else, and I see why some people don't like this. I honestly don't think that's a bad thing. It shows focus and dedication to focus on doing it better next time and keeping the faith that one day he could beat Pog. If he immediately would express that 'Pog is better', he would mentally give up believing he can beat him.

There are 2 issues. If journalists/people just want to hear the rivals toot the winners horn, or hear about how great the winner is, how strong he was, then they should just go interview the winner or his teammates. When they are asking someone else how HIS (or her) race went, why shouldn't (s)he be able to respond to that? I personally don't think "the loser" should even mention the winner unless asked directly or unless it is relevant to his own story. I never understand how people want to hear forced false modesty or self-mortification about how much better their big rival was. What's the point. Did Pogacar say Skjelmose was the strongest in Amstel? (Which would be idiotic). Or just that he was a deserved winner? Because why should he say the former if he didn't feel like that was the case? Which we all know.

The other issue is upon asked about your own race, to make a valid analysis and self assessment. This is where Evenepoel can go off track, and like i said in another post, he and the team are quick to find an explanation, and often it can be a valid one, but when it's self-inflicted or a beginner mistake (out of position on the one spot you know you need to be in position, removing your rainjacket too soon, looking around when it's your responsibility to chase...) don't follow up by "because otherwise, i would have left them all in the dust". Here a bit of extra modesty could do him favors. The only time i totally understand he said that, was after his 2020 Lombardia crash. Not just because he was the strongest, but because he needed something to cling to for hope.

I think Liege favours w/kg riders more than Amstel and Pog has a monster engine in this regard. IMO Amstel was clearly below his average performance but i dunno if he will be better on Sunday (as i expressed even before AGR doing those races after PR was hurting his Liege chances).

That's because QS still haven't figured out how weight plays a role uphill.