Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[AmRacer]

The thing is, nobody really expected him to beat Pogacar at Liege when he entered racing again at the BP. People (fans, team, Remco) got a bit ahead of themselves after the Amstel, but the end result is what was expected: Pogacar is unbeatable. So there is no real loss for Remco. Only a reality check of which I think will help him a lot towards the Tour. I'd actually be more skeptical about the Tour if he had won Liege.

On a normal day, Remco would be second.

 

[Rackham]

Maybe he should've went the Vingegaard route and put the focus on TDF after his crash. Trying to get ready for these races didn't help with building a wide enough "base" for this season. This looks like Giro 2021 all over again. I wouldn't be surprised if we get more of these similar situations later in the season too.

As a fan it's frustrating to see the sheer arrogance of Evenepoel to think he has more than enough talent to overcome the lack of professionality of his team. He could've been much further in his development, palmares, and career at a proper team. A team that didn't want to "find out" what it means to be a GT team, and everything that goes with it.

If he wants to 'win' things he's got to focus on the winnable races. Frankly on paper Liège is way more winnable for Evenepoel than the Tour de France. So what's the endgame here? Ride for third again in Paris? How long will that maintain its 'motivating' factor?

One day races on the other hand are a simpler equation when he's got super legs.

 

[Berniece]

If he wants to 'win' things he's got to focus on the winnable races. Frankly on paper Liège is way more winnable for Evenepoel than the Tour de France. So what's the endgame here? Ride for third again in Paris? How long will that maintain its 'motivating' factor?

One day races on the other hand are a simpler equation when he's got super legs.

That I understand, but that doesn't mean they need to rush things. Did he need to go to altitude to try and be competitive in these 5 races? If his personal biggest goal is TDF, and we got a nice WC for him later in the season? I get it was depressing, and hard mentally, and setting goals helps you be motivated. But this might eventually do more bad than good. What if for some miraculous reason he stays competitive in TDF until week 3?

 

[Berflamand]

I'd be very surprised if he's in the mix for the win in Romandie. Thyon should be a much bigger problem for him than the Liege parcours, and the TTs in Romandie are super technical as well, so I doubt he takes that much time to begin with.

Well the first TT is a very short prologue, I think it's possible he's not even in the mix for a top 5 on such a short technical prologue.

But the second TT doesn't look that technical to me? Yes, the first kilometre looks super technical but after that it looks pretty straightforward for the remaining 15-16km?

 

[Rackham]

That I understand, but that doesn't mean they need to rush things. Did he need to go to altitude to try and be competitive in these 5 races? If his personal biggest goal is TDF, and we got a nice WC for him later in the season? I get it was depressing, and hard mentally, and setting goals helps you be motivated. But this might eventually do more bad than good. What if for some miraculous reason he stays competitive in TDF until week 3?

I'm just saying. I totally 'get' why the Ardennes classics were his major come back goal and Liège in particular. Without a Giro or any of the earlier races in the season, winning major stuff from this point onwards looks tougher and tougher because of who he's up against.

And yes, he might have a better TdF than last year but by what margin? He was still almost ten minutes down on Pog. It's a huge gap.

I'd have previously believed Romandie was winnable for Evenepoel but if his climbing isn't better then it's going to be difficult.

 

[Salvarani]

It makes sense for the Gulperberg crash to have been in a fight for position and that to affect him today.

I still it find peculiar since he climbed Redoute alright and was active afterwards in the group he was in, that wasnt working that well, before the gap just went up too much.

For me, I dont understand or believe he was that cooked before Redoute. He still climbed from like 50th (?) to be 9th over the top. To me that doesnt mean he was "cooked" at that point or at least before it. Better positioned going in... he would have had a good chance at a podium. He was then active after the climb, which doesnt really say cooked either. He maybe was spent after having to make up so much ground... but that would have been voided by staying/being at the front from the beginning, going into the climb.

Sitting up after all the chance of a podium is gone is one thing, but not fighting for position or give himself the best chance going into the most decisive moment is something I find hard to find an explanation for other than it being too much of a stressful situation. We havent heard or seen about him having any problems with the bike or being caught up, as far as I know. DS explanation why he also got off the bike is a story in itself.

I guess we will see in Romandie where he is at. The climbs are longer there so it might be that he was gonna struggle there anyway and doesnt really make the above clear, if he has a problem or gets uneasy with fighting for position in the peloton... which I dont expect him or them to admit. It would be a concern.

 

[Rou]

I felt bad for Remco yesterday at Liege but he should be humble and not make bombastic statements like in Amstel '' I would have won if I didn't crash''.

 

[Berniece]

I'm just saying. I totally 'get' why the Ardennes classics were his major come back goal and Liège in particular. Without a Giro or any of the earlier races in the season, winning major stuff from this point onwards looks tougher and tougher because of who he's up against.

Yeah, and that's why I'm wondering if it didn't make more sense to just train and build up a more wide base. Needing "racing miles" is overrated anyway. He could've just kept training and then do Dauphine, NC, TDF, vacation, training, Canada, WC, fall classics.

What might happen now is that he completely collapse in the 3rd week of TDF, and then charge his batteries again but won't reach his best level in the fall. Another lost season when it comes to his palmares.

 

[Red Rick]

That I understand, but that doesn't mean they need to rush things. Did he need to go to altitude to try and be competitive in these 5 races? If his personal biggest goal is TDF, and we got a nice WC for him later in the season? I get it was depressing, and hard mentally, and setting goals helps you be motivated. But this might eventually do more bad than good. What if for some miraculous reason he stays competitive in TDF until week 3?

Wasn't the original plan that he was going to go Giro/Tour before he hit that car in december? Honestly after that there's very little you can do target wise that's not just aiming for the Tour and then WC unless you try Tour/Vuelta/WC which they probably think is too hard. And I don't think waiting for the Vuelta with your main target for the season is a good idea either.

Long term I think he should really add Milano Sanremo and RVV to his schedule, because frankly I think he has a better chance of beating Pogacar in those 2 races than in Liege. That and I think he should really stop decompressing as hard as he does after GTs because it's costing him in races like the WCRR last year. I maintain that Pogacar's long ranger was actually his best chance to lose but Evenepoel just didn't have the level to go on a solo to chase him down. Still, the WR routes coming up are pretty unlucky for Evenepoel cause they're they're just too hard not to favor Pogacar extremely heavily, but maybe Montreal won't be that hard.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, and that's why I'm wondering if it didn't make more sense to just train and build up a more wide base. Needing "racing miles" is overrated anyway. He could've just kept training and then do Dauphine, NC, TDF, vacation, training, Canada, WC, fall classics.

What might happen now is that he completely collapse in the 3rd week of TDF, and then charge his batteries again but won't reach his best level in the fall. Another lost season when it comes to his palmares.

I really don't think this was that much of a setback that it makes a difference by July. It seemed much more like illness to me

 

[Berniece]

Wasn't the original plan that he was going to go Giro/Tour before he hit that car in december? Honestly after that there's very little you can do target wise that's not just aiming for the Tour and then WC unless you try Tour/Vuelta/WC which they probably think is too hard. And I don't think waiting for the Vuelta with your main target for the season is a good idea either.

Long term I think he should really add Milano Sanremo and RVV to his schedule, because frankly I think he has a better chance of beating Pogacar in those 2 races than in Liege. That and I think he should really stop decompressing as hard as he does after GTs because it's costing him in races like the WCRR last year. I maintain that Pogacar's long ranger was actually his best chance to lose but Evenepoel just didn't have the level to go on a solo to chase him down. Still, the WR routes coming up are pretty unlucky for Evenepoel cause they're they're just too hard not to favor Pogacar extremely heavily, but maybe Montreal won't be that hard.

They might have added Giro, but they weren't sure yet. I think they would eventually have decided to not go for that, and just focus on TDF, since this would reduce the odds of him overcooking during TDF.

About the long term I agree, although I don't necessarily see him incapable of beating Pogacar in Liege. He just needs a proper build up and be in his best form.

 

[ChasingPotatoes]

I felt bad for Remco yesterday at Liege but he should be humble and not make bombastic statements like in Amstel '' I would have won if I didn't crash''.

Wow, he really said this?

 

[AmRacer]

BP was a nice win, maybe he should've raced a few non-WT's after BP. If he’s not ready compete with the best.

 

[James M]

Yeah, and that's why I'm wondering if it didn't make more sense to just train and build up a more wide base. Needing "racing miles" is overrated anyway. He could've just kept training and then do Dauphine, NC, TDF, vacation, training, Canada, WC, fall classics.

What might happen now is that he completely collapse in the 3rd week of TDF, and then charge his batteries again but won't reach his best level in the fall. Another lost season when it comes to his palmares.

This won't affect the TDF for him in any negative way at all. The only concern would be if it mentally affected him, which it shouldn't. I need to stress this again because people need to understand that A doesn't mean B when comparing anyone to this Pogacar. Overall, Remco performed above expectations, with Liege being the anomaly for good, logical reasons. Remco is in a very good spot!

You want him to race here—he almost won AGR. He wouldn't be as good as he is or on the trajectory he's on if he wasn't like this. Remco is going to be well-prepared for the TDF. Remco will surprise a lot of people in the TDF and I wouldnt be surprised at all if he takes another step relative to others for his sake, though I don't understand why they would be surprised.

 

[Berniece]

This won't affect the TDF for him in any negative way at all. The only concern would be if it mentally affected him, which it shouldn't. I need to stress this again because people need to understand that A doesn't mean B when comparing anyone to this Pogacar. Overall, Remco performed above expectations, with Liege being the anomaly for good, logical reasons. Remco is in a very good spot!

You want him to race here—he almost won AGR. He wouldn't be as good as he is or on the trajectory he's on if he wasn't like this. Remco is going to be well-prepared for the TDF. Remco will surprise a lot of people in the TDF and I wouldnt be surprised at all if he takes another step relative to others for his sake, though I don't understand why they would be surprised.

My gut feeling currently is telling me this has Giro 2021 written all over it again. Not being able to properly start training until February, rushing it, and eventually fading. Sure TDF is still far away, so it might have less of an impact on it. We'll see, if there's a day that he suddenly isn't able to ride for a top 10 place anymore (Vuelta 2023 vibes), you know what time it is.

 

[James M]

My gut feeling currently is telling me this has Giro 2021 written all over it again. Not being able to properly start training until February, rushing it, and eventually fading. Sure TDF is still far away, so it might have less of an impact on it. We'll see, if there's a day that he suddenly isn't able to ride for a top 10 place anymore (Vuelta 2023 vibes), you know what time it is.

I wouldnt look behind, Remco has taken several steps in that department since then and if anythig his numbers are on the rise this year which only are a good sign so far, what your implying are very doom and gloom as of now imo, very early. Liege was an anomoly for obvious logical reasons, not important in the big picture in the sense of devolepement, completely natural, not an excuse and cause x-y reasons. Watch him perform very well in Romandie now with a few days more recovery, just wait.

He has plenty of time to build more then relax, build more based upon this base and get plenty surplus and further push towards TDF I also would say if anything hes only showed promising signs so far not the other way around. Only thing he needs to show that he has improved his climbing. However, he has always been slow to acclimate to that, so this needs to be taken into consideration when gauging his level this early for him there too.

 

[jmdirt]

I really don't think this was that much of a setback that it makes a difference by July. It seemed much more like illness to me

I saw a post elsewhere that RE had a 'minor gastro issue'. I have no idea if that is true, but could explain the team disappearing from the front, and his terrible positioning at a crucial time.

Either way, I agree he is just fine so far looking toward July.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

That I understand, but that doesn't mean they need to rush things. Did he need to go to altitude to try and be competitive in these 5 races? If his personal biggest goal is TDF, and we got a nice WC for him later in the season? I get it was depressing, and hard mentally, and setting goals helps you be motivated. But this might eventually do more bad than good. What if for some miraculous reason he stays competitive in TDF until week 3?

Yes. He won Brabant and came close to winning Amstel. So yes, it was worth it. If they had done what you now propose and he then doesn't deliver during the Tour... what would the argument have been? Yes, damn the team is stupid, why not let him ride the Ardennes and Romandie and get some race km in the legs??

Yeah, and that's why I'm wondering if it didn't make more sense to just train and build up a more wide base. Needing "racing miles" is overrated anyway. He could've just kept training and then do Dauphine, NC, TDF, vacation, training, Canada, WC, fall classics.

What might happen now is that he completely collapse in the 3rd week of TDF, and then charge his batteries again but won't reach his best level in the fall. Another lost season when it comes to his palmares.

No, didn't make sense. Again, see above. This didn't hurt him in the least, it just hurts a segment of his fans, that somehow seem to take every non-win as a personal affront. You really think that these 4 one day races followed by Romandie will make any further training until the Dauphiné somehow ineffective?

He had a crash, he came back in time for this. Worked well until Amstel. He beat Wout Van Aert in a sprint. That's not too bad. Then the Mur de Huy was weaker than you could expect, but nothing major. Liège very bad. But we all know that normal Remco at Liège has a 30% or so chance of winning, and a 70% chance of being second. 0% of doing worse. If Liège was a month later he might have been competitive for it, but it is in April, so why miss it when he's fine? To make some of his fans sleep better? He had a training crash, that explains his Liège performance. Riding this or not, will have 0 influence on his TdF. But riding now in April had an influence on his palmarès, Brabant added, beating Wout van Aert in a sprint nonetheless. He won Amstel in his mind too maybe, for us he just came very close. Good comeback, definitely was worth it. Now Romandie then prepare for the Tour.

 

[Berniece]

You really think that these 4 one day races followed by Romandie will make any further training until the Dauphiné somehow ineffective?

No. I think training too hard too quickly, and going on altitude might show to be ineffective. Like in 2021.

 

[saunaking]

What in the actual ***?

He gave up a potential second place so others could get air time?

Get him a psychiatrist to get him the help he needs! This SCREAMS there is something mentally going on. I do not want this to be something that hinders him any longer

potential second place lol

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

What most people don't understand is the huge outside pressure this guy is exposed to. The whole nation is cycling crazy and he is god now. They follow every move he makes. At the finish, 10 Belgian journalist all ask the same question "What went wrong? How do you feel about it?" That's what their listeners want to hear. He answers all of them, the same answer, calmly. Tomorrow, the newspapers will be full of it. His stories sell. And everybody wants a part of it. I was in a music hall tonight, a show of Bart Peeters (famous singer in Belgium and The Netherlands) with thousands of spectators and even there Remco was mentioned. It's crazy.

Which makes it all the more baffling that the team does not care about a plan B at all. They also have Van Wilder, who won Tre Valli solo from a group with Pogacar, Roglic, Carapaz, O'Connor (who he rode off his wheel), but never is he used as either a back-up or as a decoy. Vansevenant and Schachmann could be used as decoy as well, they are both capable riders on this sort of terrain that could ride a good result.
In the days before LBL it was all about hoping to finally give the fans a 1v1 against Pogacar because it never really got to that in the classics they both started and about bringing the fight to Pogacar. And now after imploding, the narrative has shifted to "i'm not a robot", "it's quite logical this happened after his comeback from injury" though they also didn't see it coming. Another "obvious explanation" after the facts, just like his rain jacket in FW and him leading out the sprint 300m into a headwind. Seriously. **** off! The team does nothing to protect him from it, they parade him as their only option and that's a big reason why other riders aren't ready to step up when something like this happens. They aren't treated as viable alternatives or even outside options. It's the team who are much of the cause of why he has to deal with this pressure. Like they are amazed everybody is looking at Remco from Team Remco. Who would have thought?!
Either this team is in need of new management or he needs to move away for his own good. The team nor the team car are doing him any favors. It's not like they have the best performing staff of the peloton. At this point the only reason to stay is Specialized. But i fear that realisation has to come from within Evenepoel first, that he is being surrounded by yes-men.

 

[saunaking]

Yeah, and that's why I'm wondering if it didn't make more sense to just train and build up a more wide base. Needing "racing miles" is overrated anyway. He could've just kept training and then do Dauphine, NC, TDF, vacation, training, Canada, WC, fall classics.

What might happen now is that he completely collapse in the 3rd week of TDF, and then charge his batteries again but won't reach his best level in the fall. Another lost season when it comes to his palmares.

the last thing we need is more of these one race wonders who hibrenate most of the season

 

[Red Rick]

the last thing we need is more of these one race wonders who hibrenate most of the season

Actually we just need one more and that would improve a lot of things

 

[Berniece]

Either this team is in need of new management or he needs to move away for his own good. The team nor the team car are doing him any favors. It's not like they have the best performing staff of the peloton. At this point the only reason to stay is Specialized. But i fear that realisation has to come from within Evenepoel first, that he is being surrounded by yes-men.

Problem being that the yes-men will follow him. When he was in talks with Bora it was also to bring along some riders like Van Wilder, and staff like Lodewyck, Pelgrim

 

[Sciatic]

I saw a post elsewhere that RE had a 'minor gastro issue'. I have no idea if that is true, but could explain the team disappearing from the front, and his terrible positioning at a crucial time.

Either way, I agree he is just fine so far looking toward July.

He said he just didn't have the legs in the final climbs.