Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He has to live, train, race at/near race weight for more than a few minutes before the start.

The race into form plan doesn't work when your competitors are in form when they race.

Every pro cyclist is more heavy in the off season and gradually loses weight towards their goals. That's totally fine. It's when he does it like last year, between Dauphiné and Tour, that it becomes a big risk.

 

[jmdirt]

Every pro cyclist is more heavy in the off season and gradually loses weight towards their goals. That's totally fine. It's when he does it like last year, between Dauphiné and Tour, that it becomes a big risk.

Yes, but the amount they gain and then have to lose again is the issue. Plus, the closer you live to your race weight the 'easier' it is for your body to adapt. Yes, its easier for some than others, but a pro needs to make the sacrifice.

Side note: does something obvious like "Every pro cyclist is more heavy in the off season and gradually loses weight towards their goals." need to be stated? Is there anyone who doesn't know that?

 

[jmdirt]

This was something that I posted in April:

Let me take this completely out of of top level cycling, and give you a sample of one: me.

I was 165-170 lbs in High School because I loved the weight room (and playing football, basketball, and riding/racing moto). Army basic training slimed me down to 155, but as soon as I got to permanent duty and access to a weight room I was 165 again.

Once I got back to civilian life I was looking for something more fun than running for cardio so I bought a mountain bike. I'm a competitive person so I did a race and was hooked! I started living the life of a mountain biker and by the time I got my first Pro NORBA license I was 145 lbs most of the year (I never got above 151 in Dec/Jan).

My point in boring you with this story about me is that if a pack fill USA dirt racer (EDIT: in the early '90s) who was couch surfing can go from 165 lbs to 145 and maintain it, why can't a top level pro?

 

[scribers]

Because we don’t all carry weight (fat/muscle) the same. And we also do cardio and interplay of ideal lean mass differently.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yes, but the amount they gain and then have to lose again is the issue. Plus, the closer you live to your race weight the 'easier' it is for your body to adapt. Yes, its easier for some than others, but a pro needs to make the sacrifice.

Side note: does something obvious like "Every pro cyclist is more heavy in the off season and gradually loses weight towards their goals." need to be stated? Is there anyone who doesn't know that?

In his case, we're talking about 2-3 kilos between his regular spring weight to his GT weight. That's not like some other riders who lose double that or more.

As to why he can't be closer to his ideal weight? Probably his metabolism is a bit different, and i also think a lot of it comes from the idea that he needs to be more heavy for classics and TT's (which he has proven numerous times is BS, since he dominated TT's while skinny, and became WCC and Olympic champion while skinny).

 

[jmdirt]

Because we don’t all carry weight (fat/muscle) the same. And we also do cardio and interplay of ideal lean mass differently.

Something that doesn't need to be stated, IMO.

Are you saying that its all genetic and that training, and nutrition isn't as important as we all thought?

RE can get to race weight so that dispels that, right? He just doesn't maintain it if he isn't near one of his goals.

Is it easier for TP and/or JV? Maybe, but that's why RE needs to really focus all year long.

 

[jmdirt]

In his case, we're talking about 2-3 kilos between his regular spring weight to his GT weight. That's not like some other riders who lose double that or more.

As to why he can't be closer to his ideal weight? Probably his metabolism is a bit different, and i also think a lot of it comes from the idea that he needs to be more heavy for classics and TT's (which he has proven numerous times is BS, since he dominated TT's while skinny, and became WCC and Olympic champion while skinny).

My understanding was that he was 5-6 kilos over this spring (granted, after being a couch potato while recovering).

"other riders" or other GC riders?

Ah yes, metabolism, that's it.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I always felt mountain trains were overrated. You needed rouleurs to safeguard you during the flat stages.
As well as control the pleoton. I always felt that you don't need a mountain train. As the strongest tends to simply win on mountains. And that if you're strong enough mountain trains don't matter all that much. You can use other people their domestiques, ... .

However this is from a point of strenght. I've been thinking what Remco needs from a point of weakness. Him never being as good as Vingegaard and Pogacar in the mountains. And what does he need : a mountain train.

You see I think these sprint from the base of the climbs we see these days isn't perfect for a tempo rider like evenepoel.
It's too fast for him, and he burns through energy. But he needs to follow in order to keep the draft.

So what Evenepoel needs is a strong mountain train that completely ignores Visma and UAE. Let them sprint up the base of the climb. Have soudal ride a mountain train at Remco pace. They need to last for at least half the climb. So Remco keeps draft from them for as long as possible before he goes to work himself. After all better to ride the whole of the mountain as fast as possible. Then destroy yourself at the base of the climb trying to follow UAE and Visma. Only way that works though if Remco can get draft benefits from his own mountain train.

I just read Soudal new manager think Remco pollen allergy will be better during the tour, on account of the height of the pollen season being over by then and on account of them using air cleaners (or whatever the english word for them is).
And all i can think of, why weren't you using them during the dauphine....

 

[AlpRaid]

He was not bothered by allergies in 2024 TDF.

I agree that keeping him safe during the flat stages is vital.

I think that the need for a mountain train is somewhat over-rated. He should just put himself in lie with Visma. Jorgensen seems like a good person to follow (and then drop when necessary).

However, we have to be honest, he is simply not at the same climbing level with pog and vingo. he has the distinct potential to be the best of the rest (if he does not crash or get ill).

Even 100kms of ITT would not be enough against Pog and Vingo. Firstly, Vingo would not lose THAT much. And Pog is simply untouchable as things stands, he seems like he is hardly breathing while putting time into EVEN alien Vingo. What would 3 minutes advantage from ITTs do, if Pog can get that back easily in two MTFs.

 

[Berniece]

I just read Soudal new manager think Remco pollen allergy will be better during the tour, on account of the height of the pollen season being over by then and on account of them using air cleaners (or whatever the english word for them is).
And all i can think of, why weren't you using them during the dauphine....

Even more so since they literally had the same issue last year… this is just amateur hour and wouldn’t happen at Visma for example

Remco Evenepoel, die last heeft van allergie, blijft realistisch: "Ik verwacht niet mee te doen voor ritwinst" | sporza

Na het tijdverlies van gisteren heeft Remco Evenepoel een woelige nacht achter de rug. De Belgische kampioen heeft last van de pollen en ook zijn huisstofmijtallergie speelt op. "We sliepen in een hotel met een tapijt. Dat maakt het niet gemakkelijk", aldus Evenepoel voor de start van rit 7 in...

sporza.be

 

[jmdirt]

In his case, we're talking about 2-3 kilos between his regular spring weight to his GT weight. That's not like some other riders who lose double that or more.

As to why he can't be closer to his ideal weight? Probably his metabolism is a bit different, and i also think a lot of it comes from the idea that he needs to be more heavy for classics and TT's (which he has proven numerous times is BS, since he dominated TT's while skinny, and became WCC and Olympic champion while skinny).

Let me jump back a bit here:

Like I posted above, RE has amazing palmaris, especially since he's only 25.

If he continues on the same path for five more years he will have an amazing career.

If he wants to compete with TP, JV, and whoever comes along next in stage racing, he will need to live closer to his race weight for 12 months a year. We never really know what riders' body comp is, but at CdD he was viably leaner than he was a month ago. He needs to be training and racing very near his GT body comp sooner. You said that 'possibly his metabolism is a bit different',* even more important that he maintain a consistent body comp then so that his body knows how to metabolize energy most efficiently in that body scenario.

*if you want to get picky, everyone's metabolism is 'a bit different'.

 

[jmdirt]

I always felt mountain trains were overrated. You needed rouleurs to safeguard you during the flat stages.
As well as control the pleoton. I always felt that you don't need a mountain train. As the strongest tends to simply win on mountains. And that if you're strong enough mountain trains don't matter all that much. You can use other people their domestiques, ... .

However this is from a point of strenght. I've been thinking what Remco needs from a point of weakness. Him never being as good as Vingegaard and Pogacar in the mountains. And what does he need : a mountain train.

You see I think these sprint from the base of the climbs we see these days isn't perfect for a tempo rider like evenepoel.
It's too fast for him, and he burns through energy. But he needs to follow in order to keep the draft.

So what Evenepoel needs is a strong mountain train that completely ignores Visma and UAE. Let them sprint up the base of the climb. Have soudal ride a mountain train at Remco pace. They need to last for at least half the climb. So Remco keeps draft from them for as long as possible before he goes to work himself. After all better to ride the whole of the mountain as fast as possible. Then destroy yourself at the base of the climb trying to follow UAE and Visma. Only way that works though if Remco can get draft benefits from his own mountain train.

I just read Soudal new manager think Remco pollen allergy will be better during the tour, on account of the height of the pollen season being over by then and on account of them using air cleaners (or whatever the english word for them is).
And all i can think of, why weren't you using them during the dauphine....

Unless the air filters are on his face, they won't help him much during the stages. I assume that he/they have been exploring treatments that relieve his symptoms, don't have worse effects than the allergy, and are approved for use.

 

[Andre]

sorry to change topic; but if Remco is not the next Belgian that will win the TDF, then who is? Just asking for opinions

 

[red_flanders]

Even more so since they literally had the same issue last year… this is just amateur hour and wouldn’t happen at Visma for example

Remco Evenepoel, die last heeft van allergie, blijft realistisch: "Ik verwacht niet mee te doen voor ritwinst" | sporza

Na het tijdverlies van gisteren heeft Remco Evenepoel een woelige nacht achter de rug. De Belgische kampioen heeft last van de pollen en ook zijn huisstofmijtallergie speelt op. "We sliepen in een hotel met een tapijt. Dat maakt het niet gemakkelijk", aldus Evenepoel voor de start van rit 7 in...

sporza.be

"Pollen allergy" can mean oh-so-many-things in professional cycling. I wouldn't take this declaration at face value. No idea what the issue was, but I've heard this one enough to realize it means "we're not going to tell you what the issue was".

 

[Hugh Januss]

sorry to change topic; but if Remco is not the next Belgian that will win the TDF, then who is? Just asking for opinions

Jarno Widar

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Jarno Widar

I doubt Widar will turn out better than Evenepoel, but he might have the luck of racing against easier competition. We'll see.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I doubt Widar will turn out better than Evenepoel, but he might have the luck of racing against easier competition. We'll see.

He may be limited by his time trialing in the same way that Remco is limited by his climbing. As Vingo and then Pogacar age out that might not matter quite as much, eh.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He may be limited by his time trialing in the same way that Remco is limited by his climbing. As Vingo and then Pogacar age out that might not matter quite as much, eh.

I don't see Widar 's top in climbing be better than Evenepoel's tbh. But he probably will crash less and have less issues with his weight.

 

[jmdirt]

"Pollen allergy" can mean oh-so-many-things in professional cycling. I wouldn't take this declaration at face value. No idea what the issue was, but I've heard this one enough to realize it means "we're not going to tell you what the issue was".

True, but you could hear it in his voice in interviews so we can, at the very least, conclude that his upper respiratory system was affected.

 

[red_flanders]

True, but you could hear it in his voice in interviews so we can, at the very least, conclude that his upper respiratory system was affected.

For sure it’s possible, I overstated it. I simply would never take such a statement from a team at face value.