Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Red Rick]

Merlier already proved the team were right to bring him. I don't understand why that's controversial.

 

[jmdirt]

Merlier already proved the team were right to bring him. I don't understand why that's controversial.

They would be CRAZY not to bring him!

 

[red_flanders]

Merlier already proved the team were right to bring him. I don't understand why that's controversial.

Not saying they shouldn't have brought him, I don't have strong feelings about it, but obviously there's always controversy when a team splits focus between stage wins and GC.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Not saying they shouldn't have brought him, I don't have strong feelings about it, but obviously there's always controversy when a team splits focus between stage wins and GC.

But Remco doesn't give any type of guarantee in the GC. He will not fight for the win and the podium is not a certainty too. There are only 2 riders (Pog and Vingo) who should have full commitment.

 

[red_flanders]

But Remco doesn't give any type of guarantee in the GC. He will not fight for the win and the podium is not a certainty too. There are only 2 riders (Pog and Vingo) who should have full commitment.

That's a point of view. Not everyone shares it, therefore, controversial. Again, not arguing the point, just saying that reasonable people could look at the goals and team composition in very different ways.

I think if Soudal actually had a team worthy of the mountains it would be a fair bit more controversial. But...

 

[Peyroteo94]

That's a point of view. Not everyone shares it, therefore, controversial. Again, not arguing the point, just saying that reasonable people could look at the goals and team composition in very different ways.

I think if Soudal actually had a team worthy of the mountains it would be a fair bit more controversial. But...

So in your opinion, who deserves a full team around him? A GC win contender, a podium contender, a top5, top10?

 

[red_flanders]

So in your opinion, who deserves a full team around him? A GC win contender, a podium contender, a top5, top10?

My opinion is that there's no blanket answer, it really depends on the team and particular riders.

I'm just not in any way surprised it gets debated when a guy who rode for the podium last year, who is a GT Winner, a World and Olympic champion, doesn't have full team support.

The very strong rumors of Remco leaving almost certainly are playing a part in all this.

 

[Billy The Kid]

That's a point of view. Not everyone shares it, therefore, controversial. Again, not arguing the point, just saying that reasonable people could look at the goals and team composition in very different ways.

I think if Soudal actually had a team worthy of the mountains it would be a fair bit more controversial. But...

Like we saw yesterday and we will see in all other stages that is not pure sprint stages or a TT. Merlier and Van Leberghe will comit 100% to Remco and the team for as long as they can.

Tomorrow we will see those two helping Remco out with bottles, positioning etc before they ease off when the real hills start, where the other guys in the team is stronger. Since Merlier is the best sprinter in the world its logical to bring him and his helper there and they have as mentioned above got two assignments from the DS, fight for stage wins in 5 stages and fight for the team the other stages.

A couple of years ago Remco did sprint training with Cavendish and he got a lot better at it the last two years. He should continue taking lessons in positioning, bike handling and sprints from the best in the class: Merlier.

I understand he did not prioritize it this winter because of the injury that kept him from real training for 2 months and needed to build fundament again, hopefully he will have a injury free winter so he can get better at climbing + get more explosivness in his legs, like we see Vingegaard has been getting better at this year after specific training!

 

[peterfin]

he's already lost some spark after stage one, plus we're not sure how bad the crash was, we won't know how he feels when he wakes up tomorrow morning...he's got to be spooked from so many mishaps...I know his mental resiliency is below nobody's, but enough is enough. I hope I'm completely wrong and my pessimism is overblown but I don't feel too good about it.

The simple fact that his team mate Merlier won is sufficient to give him a confidence boost. He is a team player. If his injuries are not too bad, he will continue, even if he has some difficult days coming up.

 

[ppanther92]

We have no footage of the crash itself, right? Ideally it was just tipping over after someone in front of him crashed and not being able to get to a stand still fully, rather than hitting the decks at high speed…

 

[Sciatic]

We have no footage of the crash itself, right? Ideally it was just tipping over after someone in front of him crashed and not being able to get to a stand still fully, rather than hitting the decks at high speed…

Yeah but I had one of those that was like slo-motion and didn’t believe I could have hurt anything until I squeezed my brake levers and pain shot up my arm. Broke the bone in the elbow joint and was out for quite awhile.

 

[Miss Violet Smith]

We have no footage of the crash itself, right? Ideally it was just tipping over after someone in front of him crashed and not being able to get to a stand still fully, rather than hitting the decks at high speed…

Hope so too, but I thought I saw a few tears in his clothing, so there was at least enough impact for that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Merlier ain't chop liver. So he was never gonna be dropped on a flat stage like that.
Also 1 rider riding more would not have changed the situation. In an echelon the chain needs to turn round and round.
The chain turned round and round. Merlier being part of said chain would not have made a single difference given the size of the chasing peloton. and the amount of people in that peloton chasing after the first echelon. So no i still can't see your point. Remco did not lose 40 sec cause merlier been selected. he lost 40 sec. cause of his team position. And they would never have closed that gap with or without merlier riding through once that gap was created.

Take a good look at how hard that first echelon was riding and who was putting in the effort, and also look at the chasing peloton. Merlier presence had zero impact. Unless you want to make the argument that Phillipsen and Alpecin went for the echelon cause of Merlier. But i doubt that, since there were other sprinters present as well. Like Milan.

So you see no difference in the outcome if said teams would actually decide to close the gap, dedicated all resources they had at disposal, compared to what they have actually been doing? That is being stuck in plan A, that being lets still try to win this stage sprinting and lets wait for other teams to close the gap?

Right.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Merlier already proved the team were right to bring him. I don't understand why that's controversial.

SOQ is great at winning stages at the Tour, that much is true. Saying that stage 1 and 3, on where team was focused on their sprinter, went optimal for Remco in regards to his GC ambitions, here it becomes moot. And this last part is on what was discussed, extensively. #AskTrine

 

[yaco]

Right because Merlier fends for himself. The big issue is lack of mountain support.

You are living in caveman times. At Remco's level why does he need 3 or 4 mountain domestiques who are likely to be dropped early.

 

[jmdirt]

We have no footage of the crash itself, right? Ideally it was just tipping over after someone in front of him crashed and not being able to get to a stand still fully, rather than hitting the decks at high speed…

He definitely had blood on his elbow and shin plus ripped kit.

 

[yaco]

Merlier already proved the team were right to bring him. I don't understand why that's controversial.

Especially, seeing that he can do it without a leadout.

 

[AmRacer]

Especially, seeing that he can do it without a leadout.

He could be replaced with someone who could help Remco.

 

[Rackham]

Merlier already proved the team were right to bring him. I don't understand why that's controversial.

Merlier is pretty much the best sprinter in the world, certainly sans Philipsen.

But the part Soudal got wrong was having Evenepoel 9k from the finish on the front and then drifting backwards after they reached the sprint zone. He had no real reason to be up there.

Of course it's easy to say in hindsight because everyone everywhere is always saying GC riders need to be on the front to avoid incidents but yesterday wasn't one of those days.

 

[Extinction]

You are living in caveman times. At Remco's level why does he need 3 or 4 mountain domestiques who are likely to be dropped early.

So you think having solid mountain support wouldn't be useful? Why consider switching teams at all then? Soudal has all Remco needs to win a Tour. Unfortunately, 99.9 percent think that's not the case. Must be a bunch of cavemen, huh?

 

[wheresmybrakes]

If Remco were to be on UAE or Visma, and say Pog and Vingo on other teams, would he have enough to win the Tour? Would Pog and Vingo be the riders they are now if they were on other teams? I'm not so sure.

 

[Berniece]

If Remco were to be on UAE or Visma, and say Pog and Vingo on other teams, would he have enough to win the Tour? Would Pog and Vingo be the riders they are now if they were on other teams? I'm not so sure.

No, at least not at this level. I do think that UAE and Visma are able to bring him to a level where he can win the TDF

 

[KoopaCycling]

I don't think Remco did anything wrong in truth yesterday. Some stuff was not ideal but safety wise no mistakes were made as far as i'm aware. Unless deciding to stay close to the red bull bora train can be counted as a mistake.

@CyclistAbi
I re-checked stage 1. After the echelon was made, soudal immediately put their men in front. Van Lernberghe (Merlier leadout) working immediately. Alongside Lidl and Bora. The only ones that did not work were the team leaders. (Remco, Roglic, Merlier, Skjelmose). I guess the tactics mistake was not having the team leaders pull as well. But the helpers did. So your point is mostly moot.

 

[Red Rick]

Not saying they shouldn't have brought him, I don't have strong feelings about it, but obviously there's always controversy when a team splits focus between stage wins and GC.

There shouldn't really be. For most teams bringing 1 leader with a full team dedicated to him is kind of nonsense, and it only really makes sense for Visma and UAE, and even they simply have so much firepower that in case of emergency they lock up 3-4 more top 10 spots between them.

And it should work with Evenepoel and Merlier especially because Merlier can only do flat sprints and because he's one of the 2 best in the world at that, so focus is never split within a stage.

Bora bringing Meeus is different because Meeus may be the 10th best sprinter on a good day. Van Aert in turn is different because his own objectives consistently clash with Vingegaards, usually because going for Van Aert's stage wins involves Pogacar taking more bonus seconds.

 

[Berniece]

Van Aert in turn is different because his own objectives consistently clash with Vingegaards, usually because going for Van Aert's stage wins involves Pogacar taking more bonus seconds.

Which Van Aert compensates with the work he does for Vinegegaard of course. Not really comparable with what Meeus or Merlier could do for Evenepoel.