Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[KoopaCycling]

Remco lost a second between Gruchy and Caen. I daresay between the start and finish he lost about 5 seconds against pogacar in the corners. Mind you, i'm glad remco did not take the corners the way Pogacar did. Remco took the turns well without them becoming borderline scary. Tadej is a better bike handler, but one day i fear him seeking out the very limits will come to bite him. Mind you he seems to be very lucky/skilled in that regard. But WVA is a good bike handler as well, and he crashed hard in a TT.

Remco did not lose much time last year with that 'problem'. He thought he had a puncture. but it ended up being nothing. that was 3 sec. at worst. This year TT was flatter though. so yes Tadej performance was (slightly) better than in last year flat TT.

As for Vingegaard. He lost 37 sec on Remco last year. This year it's a 1 min 21. sec. So he lost about 30 sec more than last year if you just follow the maths. So not the best performance from Jonas. But if we look past his dauphine performance and just look at TDF last year , it ain't that abysmal a difference. I actually think Jonas will be quite strong this year. stronger than last year. It's just that pogacar got quite a bit better since 2023.

On a side note i also think Lipo rode quite well today. and remco is back in white

 

[jmdirt]

Pidcock also has the other distractions that pay him in MB and CX. Not sure his ambitions don't always lay higher than being a Dom which doesn't help Remco. That'll be a bigger step to another support system.

Not a dom, a handling mentor.

 

[Kedjan]

A good performance, I'm glad he won, but it wasn't a stellar performance. Remco has been sharper than this. Anyway, good for morale after some tough first days.

I want to see Remco try to create some havoc either tomorrow or on stage 10. To bad he doesn't have a strong team that could make these stages brutally hard, he will probably have to rely on UAE and Visma.

 

[Miss Violet Smith]

I thought he'd win by a larger margin, but I'll take it!

 

[SHAD0W93]

Good win for Evenepoel and now in the drivers seat for second. Stinks TTs aren’t like in the 90s-00s or the 2012 routes.

 

[KoopaCycling]

He rode 54 km/h an average for 33 km... how fast do you want him to go. It's not because Pogacar rode fantastic as well that his TT wasn't great.

I would not be surprised if that is among the top 25 fastest TT in the TDF of all time over a distance of 25 km.
Then again he did ride faster during Belgian National TT champs.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Good win for Evenepoel and now in the drivers seat for second. Stinks TTs aren’t like in the 90s-00s or the 2012 routes.

I'd love to see a 100k of ITT back. Although I don't think as a GC rider, Remco is on the same planet as Pogacar and Vingegaard, at least give him an opportunity.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

He rode 54 km/h an average for 33 km... how fast do you want him to go. It's not because Pogacar rode fantastic as well that his TT wasn't great.

I would not be surprised if that is among the top 25 fastest TT in the TDF of all time over a distance of 25 km.

It's hard to know. 2 sec/km on Roglic/Almeida/Jorgenson/VIngegaard is a good performance even by Remco standars, however both Lipowitz and Pogacar were closer than I expected. The german will be a rival for the podium.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I'd love to see a 100k of ITT back. Although I don't think as a GC rider, Remco is on the same planet as Pogacar and Vingegaard, at least give him an opportunity.

He can gain 5 minutes just on TTs, he still will lose this advantage in two proper mountain stages.

 

[saunaking]

you cannot linearly extrapolate, except for Pog who rode the TT of his life today

Pog would have won if not for the clown suit he had to wear

 

[Red Rick]

I would not be surprised if that is among the top 25 fastest TT in the TDF of all time over a distance of 25 km.

Well TTs are much faster than they used to be in the past so ofcourse there's gonna be only a handful of faster ones especially if the selection is as narrow as TdF TTs over 25 kms.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I was talking with a friend yesterday who said that Soudal-QS (he still calls them Mapei!) should have signed Pidcock for the sole reason of helping RE become a better rider. Good idea, just an expensive way to go about it.

Really doesn't matter. They have Merlier on the team, who was a pro CX rider long before Pidcock, and an excellent bike handler who needs to ride through tight spaces, sharp corners at breakneck speeds. He got the offer to get training from Cal Crutchlow to improve his cornering especially at high speeds. He was invited to do some CX training with the Belgian coach CX (at the time). They had plenty of opportunities to improve his bike handling, they simply never even tried. They kept downplaying the issue, and now he's a 25 year old, taking corners like an 85 year old.

 

[Lequack]

No wonder he won, look at those legs

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbmjLKyiTYQ

 

[Lequack]

Two legends

 

[jmdirt]

Really doesn't matter. They have Merlier on the team, who was a pro CX rider long before Pidcock, and an excellent bike handler who needs to ride through tight spaces, sharp corners at breakneck speeds. He got the offer to get training from Cal Crutchlow to improve his cornering especially at high speeds. He was invited to do some CX training with the Belgian coach CX (at the time). They had plenty of opportunities to improve his bike handling, they simply never even tried. They kept downplaying the issue, and now he's a 25 year old, taking corners like an 85 year old.

Cal is/was an amazing moto rider, but unless he also rides bicycles at a fairly high level he might not be much help (your right hand is most important cornering on a moto, and the brakes and tires are relatively much better).

* Two things that make me think that Cal doesn't ride bicycles at a high level: 1) his leg injuries, and he lives on the Isle of Man (I could be wrong about that), but does have a house in the South-West USA too (I could be wrong about that too).

RE should work with TM then, but its likely that they rarely ride together (different programs, different focus). Tom would be on a similar program to RE. I don't see him doing CX training in his time off.

 

[KoopaCycling]

There is a big enough cyclocross community in belgium, if soudal wants to they can easily find someone to take him training. I remember Boonen riding cyclocross for fun, and that soudal does beach rides. If they feel they need descent and/or bike handling training and that they need external help, it honestly wouldn't be hard to find someone. De Vlaeminck probably do it for free.

 

[jmdirt]

There is a big enough cyclocross community in belgium, if soudal wants to they can easily find someone to take him training. I remember Boonen riding cyclocross for fun, and that soudal does beach rides. If they feel they need descent and/or bike handling training and that they need external help, it honestly wouldn't be hard to find someone. De Vlaeminck probably do it for free.

About 11 million?!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Cal is/was an amazing moto rider, but unless he also rides bicycles at a fairly high level he might not be much help (your right hand is most important cornering on a moto, and the brakes and tires are relatively much better).

* Two things that make me think that Cal doesn't ride bicycles at a high level: 1) his leg injuries, and he lives on the Isle of Man (I could be wrong about that), but does have a house in the South-West USA too (I could be wrong about that too).

RE should work with TM then, but its likely that they rarely ride together (different programs, different focus). Tom would be on a similar program to RE. I don't see him doing CX training in his time off.

I bought my first 650 cc bike when i was 19 years old, it seems i am learning something new after 25+ years of being a biker. No, i think both hands are equally important when cornering. Right hand on the gas, left on the clutch. Ultimately irrelevant when looking for lines to cut into a corner. And that is what the exercises with Crutchlow were supposedly going to be about, recognising ideal lines to take at high speed (main goal to become a better descender). Yes, tires are thinner, brakes are lighter, but so is the overall weight on a bike. Speed is also significantly slower. The skillset definitely translates.

 

[jmdirt]

I bought my first 650 cc bike when i was 19 years old, it seems i am learning something new after 25+ years of being a biker. No, i think both hands are equally important when cornering. Right hand on the gas, left on the clutch. Ultimately irrelevant when looking for lines to cut into a corner. And that is what the exercises with Crutchlow were supposedly going to be about, recognising ideal lines to take at high speed (main goal to become a better descender). Yes, tires are thinner, brakes are lighter, but so is the overall weight on a bike. Speed is also significantly slower. The skillset definitely translates.

I grew up racing dirt bikes in the 70s and 80s and then added mountain bikes in 90s-now (plus a few sport bikes in this century), I agree that the skillset translates, only slightly. How you use the throttle dictates how you make the corner (sure the clutch is/can be part of how you use the throttle). As I said the tires and brakes are RELATIVELY better, meaning taking into account speed, weight, etc. they are still better. Recognizing lines will only help him so much, he has to be able to do all of the other things that go into following those lines. As I posted somewhere, its shocking to me that guys who ride their bikes so much can still not be very good riders.

*Yes, I did quite a bit of road racing too, but if you tell anyone I will deny it.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I grew up racing dirt bikes in the 70s and 80s and then added mountain bikes in 90s-now (plus a few sport bikes in this century), I agree that the skillset translates, only slightly. How you use the throttle dictates how you make the corner (sure the clutch is/can be part of how you use the throttle). As I said the tires and brakes are RELATIVELY better, meaning taking into account speed, weight, etc. they are still better. Recognizing lines will only help him so much, he has to be able to do all of the other things that go into following those lines. As I posted somewhere, its shocking to me that guys who ride their bikes so much can still not be very good riders.

*Yes, I did quite a bit of road racing too, but if you tell anyone I will deny it.

I disagree, since recognising the lines is exactly his major problem and none of the other stuff even comes into play. Two days ago he places an attack just ahead of a corner, he takes 10 meters on Almeida, after the turn he is 10 meters behind Almeida. This has nothing to do with lighter brakes, slower speed or dominant hand. It's all about steering into (and as a result also out of) a corner incorrectly. And that definitely translates for a large part.

 

[Berniece]

I disagree, since recognising the lines is exactly his major problem and none of the other stuff even comes into play. Two days ago he places an attack just ahead of a corner, he takes 10 meters on Almeida, after the turn he is 10 meters behind Almeida. This has nothing to do with lighter brakes, slower speed or dominant hand. It's all about steering into (and as a result also out of) a corner incorrectly. And that definitely translates for a large part.

In that specific case you could actually see it. He just cuts the corner instead of steering into it. You can clearly see it here.

 

[jmdirt]

I disagree, since recognising the lines is exactly his major problem and none of the other stuff even comes into play. Two days ago he places an attack just ahead of a corner, he takes 10 meters on Almeida, after the turn he is 10 meters behind Almeida. This has nothing to do with lighter brakes, slower speed or dominant hand. It's all about steering into (and as a result also out of) a corner incorrectly. And that definitely translates for a large part.

My point exactly. Hence a cyclist would be a better riding coach.

Cal is/was an amazing moto rider, but unless he also rides bicycles at a fairly high level he might not be much help

 

[jmdirt]

In that specific case you could actually see it. He just cuts the corner instead of steering into it. You can clearly see it here.

Is that because he doesn't 'see' the corner, or because he lacks the skill/confidence to actually make the corner?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

My point exactly. Hence a cyclist would be a better riding coach.

Somebody simply needs to teach him to hit the correct lines. And it doesn't matter whether that is a cyclist, a biker or a baker. But chances are that somebody who is used to take those lines, and is able to spot them and decide to take them at 200km per hour, a few hundred times per hour will know what he's talking about.

It is his main issue on the bike, cornering. And this becomes a real problem in descents and on technical circuits. For all other issues, like bike handling, obviously yes, a cyclist would be a far better coach. For this specific problem, his main issue, no not really.

Is that because he doesn't 'see' the corner, or because he lacks the skill/confidence to actually make the corner?

They are related. There is seeing the corner with your eyes, and there is seeing the corner with your brain (reading the corner). When you don't see the corner, your brain automatically makes the wrong decision in a reflex, to steer into the corner sooner, because your instincts fear of going out of the corner on the outside and your fear dictates to get away from the outside of the corner. This is always what happens. The result is the exact opposite, because by steering into the corner too soon, you have cut yourself off of the ideal line and are now headed straight for the outside of the corner. Your only option now is to hit the brakes and hope you don't crash.

 

[Berniece]

Somebody simply needs to teach him to hit the correct lines. And it doesn't matter whether that is a cyclist, a biker or a baker.

You would think Alaphilippe could've teached him... They rode 6 seasons together at SOQ