Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[red_flanders]

Plenty of bike riders improve their bike handling during their career. It's not that static. Pogacar now is clearly a better bike handler than he was when he came onto the scene.

I don't think anyone would/could dispute that.

 

[Salvarani]

Plenty of bike riders improve their bike handling during their career. It's not that static. Pogacar now is clearly a better bike handler than he was when he came onto the scene.

And some riders doesnt improve?

It is not strange to see some riders become "worse" or more careful, if you will. Because they suffer bad crashes... or they just suffer crashes, because they are not among the best bike handlers in the peloton.

Also, good point in Pogacar improving. He has done so in many ways, probably why he is so successful

 

[CyclistAbi]

No. They already had a contract and set buyout prices that no one would match.

And they still do? Or do you reckon SOQ already made a deal behind the scenes and is feeding BS to media?

 

[Berniece]

And they still do? Or do you reckon SOQ already made a deal behind the scenes and is feeding BS to media?

First of all they have to wait until August before they can say anything. If they are still negotiating it makes sense to say he’s staying. This year is the last year they can get some decent money for him, so if you want to go back to a more classics team now is a great time.

 

[CyclistAbi]

First of all they have to wait until August before they can say anything. If they are still negotiating it makes sense to say he’s staying. This year is the last year they can get some decent money for him, so if you want to go back to a more classics team now is a great time.

So we seem to agree that the deal with SOQ was likely not made, up to this point, and that SOQ never really moved on from its classics heritage. It's similar at RBH, hard to break that patterns. So either they make the deal, or Remco to stay at SOQ till the end of contract or to do a Cian or van Aert. I would strongly recommend against doing the latter.

 

[Berniece]

So we seem to agree that the deal with SOQ was likely not made, up to this point, and that SOQ never really moved on from its classics heritage. It's similar at RBH, hard to break that patterns. So either they make the deal, or Remco to stay at SOQ till the end of contract or to do a Cian or van Aert. I would strongly recommend against doing the latter.

Remco would never do the latter, otherwise he could’ve already left

 

[red_flanders]

So we seem to agree that the deal with SOQ was likely not made, up to this point, and that SOQ never really moved on from its classics heritage. It's similar at RBH, hard to break that patterns. So either they make the deal, or Remco to stay at SOQ till the end of contract or to do a Cian or van Aert. I would strongly recommend against doing the latter.

No. Remco is gone. All there is left is contract details with RBH.

They made a legit effort to reshape the team around GT / Remco, and we can all see from where they spent their budget that they definitely moved on from being a classics team. Lefevre was the glue for Remco, and the leadership and vision for the team. I think when he left, the die was cast.

They will go back to being a classics team, and are making moves in that direction already.

 

[KoopaCycling]

anyone else seen how Groves avoided crashing. I dare say Remco and/or Roglic would have always gone down. So would most of the peloton to be honest. I watched that clips at least a dozen times. Magic.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Remco would never do the latter, otherwise he could’ve already left

If he does it then it will likely end up being messy?

No. Remco is gone. All there is left is contract details with RBH.

They made a legit effort to reshape the team around GT / Remco, and we can all see from where they spent their budget that they definitely moved on from being a classics team. Lefevre was the glue for Remco, and the leadership and vision for the team. I think when he left, the die was cast.

They will go back to being a classics team, and are making moves in that direction already.

So basically SOQ is making a fool of themself claiming otherwise? As for legit effort to reshape the team around Remco and moving on form being a classics team. So in your opinion the Tour 2025 SOQ team is a legit GT GC team?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Remco should leave sooner than later IMHO. I think Ineos would be a better team though.

 

[KoopaCycling]

They are something of an akward hybrid. Not bad in either, but not good in either as well. (@soudal)

Ineos does not ride with specialized. I don't think Remco will ever leave specialized.
I do think a buyout will happen. It won't be near as messy as with Van Aert and porbably less messy than with Cian as well.

 

[red_flanders]

So basically SOQ is making a fool of themself claiming otherwise? As for legit effort to reshape the team around Remco and moving on form being a classics team. So in your opinion the Tour 2025 SOQ team is a legit GT GC team?

I don't think anyone's making fools of themselves, I think it's just the general public roster smokescreens, there are things they can and can't talk about.

To the latter, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. They tried to form a GC team. Remco is leaving and they're moving back to the roots. Not really much more to it than that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I don't think anyone's making fools of themselves, I think it's just the general public roster smokescreens, there are things they can and can't talk about.

I mean if SOQ is on board and the deal is done, why would they then go on with such public statements, they would remain silent?

To the latter, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. They tried to form a GC team. Remco is leaving and they're moving back to the roots. Not really much more to it than that.

I will read that as yeah, they failed to build a legit GT GC team and to cut the ties with their classics heritage, something that is plaguing RBH too, slow progress. And lets not forget Remco is the best version of himself in classics, SOQ likely influenced that.

 

[jmdirt]

which pro road racer actually spends (wastes) time on specific technique training?

Well, that brings us right back around to Tom Pidcock who regularly does. I think that you might be surprised by how many pros work on bike handling while they are out hammering away everyday. The direct answer to your question would be, any pro who could benefit from it...ie: Remco.

I remember reading an editorial from one of the USA racers who was on Discovery with Il Falco, and he talked about how following him everyday not only made the TEAM better at descending, but it made USA guy better at crits when he was winding down his career. I'll give a shot of tequila to whoever can remember who that was. I don't think that David Z and he overlapped, but that's who keeps popping into my head. One other one in my head Creed?

he spent 2 years in junior category riding 95% of the time in front of the peloton,

which was exactly where he was yesterday.

 

[red_flanders]

I mean if SOQ is on board and the deal is done, why would they then go on with such public statements, they would remain silent?

I don't know, but as I said above, I think Fore is trying to save some face. But honestly I have no idea.

You can buy my statements that this is a done deal or not. I've heard enough that I'm convinced, but I'm not going to run through it all or try to convince anyone else about it, its heresay and putting puzzle pieces together. If you don't buy it, I understand.

I will read that as yeah, they failed to build a legit GT GC team and to cut the ties with their classics heritage, something that is plaguing RBH too, slow progress.

The bolded is not something one can "read" from what I said. Maybe just go with...what I actually said. I don't think that's true, but it's such a subjective statement that I honestly have no idea how one would determine if that's the case.

Of course you can/will continue to say whatever you think about it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@red_flanders

OK so we agree to disagree, one more question from my side, why is in your opinion then Remco leaving if SOQ has a legit GT GC team?

 

[red_flanders]

@red_flanders

OK so we agree to disagree, one more question from my side, why is in your opinion then Remco leaving if SOQ has a legit GT GC team?

I've already addressed both.

 

[jmdirt]

They are something of an akward hybrid. Not bad in either, but not good in either as well. (@soudal)

Ineos does not ride with specialized. I don't think Remco will ever leave specialized.
I do think a buyout will happen. It won't be near as messy as with Van Aert and porbably less messy than with Cian as well.

I typed this a few days ago (I didn't use 'will ever' though). RE has a direct/personal contract with Specialized in addition to the team contract (s).

Cav also had this and ended up having to change bikes/teams to keep riding for a few more years. So it can happen, but will it?

 

[CyclistAbi]

I've already addressed both.

I read our discussion again and no you didn't. But OK.

 

[Flamin]

Well, that brings us right back around to Tom Pidcock who regularly does. I think that you might be surprised by how many pros work on bike handling while they are out hammering away everyday. The direct answer to your question would be, any pro who could benefit from it...ie: Remco.

I remember reading an editorial from one of the USA racers who was on Discovery with Il Falco, and he talked about how following him everyday not only made the TEAM better at descending, but it made USA guy better at crits when he was winding down his career. I'll give a shot of tequila to whoever can remember who that was. I don't think that David Z and he overlapped, but that's who keeps popping into my head. One other one in my head Creed?


which was exactly where he was yesterday.

Maybe if he had done less of that, his palmares would have matched his potential. No, on a serious note, sure he does, as he is, or was(?) until recently, also focused on CX and MTB.

Exactly.. WHILE they are out everyday. Not targetted technique training at the cost of endurance training. It's hard to practice cornering at race intensity in training anyway.

 

[Filippo_3467]

Was always the easiest choice to go to Red Bull because of all the money and the bike sponsor. The way Red Bull is performing this year is not very encouraging but a more riskier move to a team like Ineos or even to do a big career shift by breaking with specialized / or another team to switch bike sponsor for Remco was always a hard thing to do. So for Remco that's probably the only valid option for more money and where a lot of money can be invested in his goals. For Red Bull it's also possibly the best chance to win another GT especially coming close at the Tour. The other candidate for that would have been Almeida but he seems to be locked at UAE.

So they make the switch from Roglic to Remco. Maybe the ride one year together with a split GT schedule but I think it's more likely that Roglic moves on as there will be many teams who will give him a very good multi-year deal like IPT (with all the free Froome cash) or Ineos.

I think Remco can make another step up when it comes to GTs plus maybe trying to go for other monuments in the next year like San Remo and Flanders. Staying another year at Soudal-QS will also not hurt him as red Bull probably needs a bit longer to sort things out even with remco but a deal this year is likely so that Soudal has the money to invest in a probably more classic centered squad again.

 

[jmdirt]

Somebody simply needs to teach him to hit the correct lines. And it doesn't matter whether that is a cyclist, a biker or a baker. But chances are that somebody who is used to take those lines, and is able to spot them and decide to take them at 200km per hour, a few hundred times per hour will know what he's talking about.

It is his main issue on the bike, cornering. And this becomes a real problem in descents and on technical circuits. For all other issues, like bike handling, obviously yes, a cyclist would be a far better coach. For this specific problem, his main issue, no not really.


They are related. There is seeing the corner with your eyes, and there is seeing the corner with your brain (reading the corner). When you don't see the corner, your brain automatically makes the wrong decision in a reflex, to steer into the corner sooner, because your instincts fear of going out of the corner on the outside and your fear dictates to get away from the outside of the corner. This is always what happens. The result is the exact opposite, because by steering into the corner too soon, you have cut yourself off of the ideal line and are now headed straight for the outside of the corner. Your only option now is to hit the brakes and hope you don't crash.

You like to invite people down a trail only to push them off of a cliff before you take another trail.

Yes, a baker would be a better coach than someone who races bikes for a living. Don't tell me that you were trying to be funny because its not funny. Everyone can see a corner with their eyes, where you still trying to be funny, you missed it again.

RE needs to be riding with someone, watch their lines, and then work on following their lines.

An important thing that is being missed in this too is that the 'best' line is frequently not the one that a racer can take due to many factors. So you can't just point at the 'best' line and say 'do that every time'.

 

[jmdirt]

Maybe if he had done less of that, his palmares would have matched his potential. No, on a serious note, sure he does, as he is, or was(?) until recently, also focused on CX and MTB.

Exactly.. WHILE they are out everyday. Not targetted technique training at the cost of endurance training. It's hard to practice cornering at race intensity in training anyway.

That make absolutely no sense.

 

[red_flanders]

An important thing that is being missed in this too is that the 'best' line is frequently not the one that a racer can take due to many factors. So you can't just point at the 'best' line and say 'do that every time'.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Guys you do realise that Rogla is the one then, who will be teaching Remco cornering.