Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

lol.

doesn't need to be terrible to drop piles of minutes.

he looks like Vuelta 2023 before collapse, if not worse. inconsistent, lacking any punch, tired and unable to separate himself from most of the secondary GC riders.

Lacking any punch like on the first MTF he won the sprint against Roglic, Ayuso and Vingegaard?

lol indeed

 

[Berniece]

Really? I think he looked really bad. On a stage like this, at this point of the race, I think Remco should comfortably be the third best rider. On the long mountain stages, I'd be surprised if notat least Lipo would be stronger, Joao definitely would, and probably Gall as well.

IMO really disappointing showing

Had the exact same feeling, would be surprised if he finishes on the podium

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He said before the start that he had trained less on punch/short efforts in order to be better at the long ones. I suggest we wait and see before jumping to conclusions. Surely he wouldn't have even tried to attack if he felt like he was cooked right there. And when you tow a group to the line, getting outsprinted by most of the guys that were in your wheel, is like the most obvious thing to happen.

What is clear, is that his acceleration is MIA. Whether that is a result of his training schedule as he somewhat predicted, or because he's simply not got the legs, i would wait a few days and see how he fares in the actual mountains. He lost 5 seconds, not 5 minutes.

 

[AlpRaid]

you clearly didn't watch the Vuelta 2023 because he was super punchy back then...

lol, that's why I said "if not worse".

 

[AlpRaid]

Lacking any punch like on the first MTF he won the sprint against Roglic, Ayuso and Vingegaard?

lol indeed

it really would help if people read the entire post -- including qualifying statements such as "if not worse".

instead of simply jumping to the conclusion because you want to argue. it would help to have more of a construction conversation.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

it really would help if people read the entire post -- including qualifying statements such as "if not worse".

instead of simply jumping to the conclusion because you want to argue. it would help to have more of a construction conversation.

lol, wtf.

Saying if not worse doesn't make your statement any less ridiculous as he WON A FCKING MTF SPRINT.

 

[AlpRaid]

And when you tow a group to the line, getting outsprinted by most of the guys that were in your wheel, is like the most obvious thing to happen.

which is precisely the scenario I suggested could play out over and over again putting his podium in jeopardy.

that you argued would never happen...

hmm.

 

[AlpRaid]

lol, wtf.

Saying if not worse doesn't make your statement any less ridiculous as he WON A FCKING MTF SPRINT.

and then lost 20+ minutes on one stage.

as I said no surprises if this repeats here. however, don't expect him to be able to rebound and go stage hunting as he did then. precisely because he has no kick and cannot get away.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

which is precisely the scenario I suggested could play out over and over again putting his podium in jeopardy.

that you argued would never happen...

hmm.

OMG, lol

I never said that could never happen, i said your comparison to the Dauphiné was crooked because the mountain stages in this year's Dauphiné were right after his crash and he was having allergies. Secondly, today was not a mountain stage.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

and then lost 20+ minutes on one stage.

What does that have to do with you falsely claiming he had no punch in the 2023 Vuelta?

 

[AlpRaid]

I am really getting TJVG vibes this year. remember when he wanted the big 4 to be the big 5?

I get that from remco -- wanting it to be the big 3 when it really is the big 2. meanwhile the big 2 pay him zero attention.

I am a huge fan. I only wish he could race the stuff where he can be exciting to watch, that's all.

 

[SHAD0W93]

and then lost 20+ minutes on one stage.

as I said no surprises if this repeats here. however, don't expect him to be able to rebound and go stage hunting as he did then. precisely because he has no kick and cannot get away.

Evenepoel lost that amount of time so he could go into the breakaways and not be bothered.

 

[KoopaCycling]

He said before the start that he had trained less on punch/short efforts in order to be better at the long ones. I suggest we wait and see before jumping to conclusions. Surely he wouldn't have even tried to attack if he felt like he was cooked right there. And when you tow a group to the line, getting outsprinted by most of the guys that were in your wheel, is like the most obvious thing to happen.

What is clear, is that his acceleration is MIA. Whether that is a result of his training schedule as he somewhat predicted, or because he's simply not got the legs, i would wait a few days and see how he fares in the actual mountains. He lost 5 seconds, not 5 minutes.

I partially agree with this. he was the main motor in the chasing group, and got outsprinted by Lipo and Jorgenson at the finish. If they were a cut above Remco they would have jumped him sooner. I would say that today they were about as good as each other.

Having said that, If Vingegaard gets dropped and Pogacar races on, Evenepoel & company lose 30 sec on Pogacar today.
A lot of people simply expect more from Remco. Whereas i expect a podium/top 5 this tour.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I partially agree with this. he was the main motor in the chasing group, and got outsprinted by Lipo and Jorgenson at the finish. If they were a cut above Remco they would have jumped him sooner. I would say that today they were about as good as each other.

Having said that, If Vingegaard gets dropped and Pogacar races on, Evenepoel & company lose 30 sec on Pogacar today.
A lot of people have smply expect more from Remco. Whereas i expect a podium/top 5 this tour.

Watching him, i don't see him struggling with the pace, i see him struggling with the accelerations. If -like he claims- he has indeed been focussing less on punch, then this so far makes sense. I would otherwise agree that i would expect him to be closer to Vingegaard at least on punchy finishes, but if it was a trade-off for longer efforts, i suggest we wait and see. If he turns out worse than last year, the only thing i can imagine being the cause, is again his completely missed winter preparation, just like in 2021. Last year he missed part of his preTour prep, but at least he had a regular winter prep.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I agree on that, imo Remco is very much still on track for a podium. Sure he can have a bad day and lose it all. But that's true for other riders as well. So far he's been third best in this tour for me. Despite lacking acceleration. Well maybe 4th best until Almeida crashed. Roglic, and lipo already had 2 bad moments. Jorgenson has not had a bad day. and got an easy time bonus on stage 1. Plus he can play the game once Pogacar has attacked and left him & Remco behind. As we can expect Jonas to be 2nd best and be up the road. with Remco, Lipo, Roglic, Jorgenson in the chasing group. I daresay the amount of work he needs to do for Vingegaard won't be that impactful as they want to keep him as close as possible GC wise. Meaning he can wheelsuck and eat remco plate once Jonas and Tadej are further up the road.

 

[AlpRaid]

As we can expect Jonas to be 2nd best and be up the road. with Remco, Lipo, Roglic, Jorgenson in the chasing group. I daresay the amount of work he needs to do for Vingegaard won't be that impactful as they want to keep him as close as possible GC wise. Meaning he can wheelsuck and eat remco plate once Jonas and Tadej are further up the road.

precisely.

remco should not compete with vingo and pog. let them go and make Lipo and Rog work. if he thinks it is always up to him to do all the chasing, this scenario will play out over and over again (just as I suggested it could).

he needs to recalibrate. not think he is in competition with the two aliens, but in a tight race for third with all the others. a podium (no matter how distant from the two aliens) would be a success considering the constant comebacks from crashes.

and then on to a fourth CSS!

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

He’s gonna need to keep doing his own pace in the high mountains, hoping he can drop at least Jorgenson as soon as possible. Lipowitz looks like a contender for his podium spot.
Remco looks worse than last year to all of us, don’t think he can get better. I’m thinking he is better with a steady pace than all the accelerations. Hope he can stay consistent every stage.

I dunno. Last year, he was dropped handily on San Luca and Galibier, it's just that he was able to get back to JV and Pogi on the flats on stage 2 and to JV on stage 4, so it obscured the climbing disparity. I agree, though, that today similarly looks better on paper than in reality because Pogi and Vingegaard stopped pushing. I think there is still a decent chance he is as good in the high mountains as last year.

Lacking any punch like on the first MTF he won the sprint against Roglic, Ayuso and Vingegaard?

lol indeed

Honestly, if you showed that photo to the average 25-year-old bro getting started in the gym, they'd probably sign up for that physique...I don't think they'd same the same for JV.

 

[KoopaCycling]

precisely.

remco should not compete with vingo and pog. let them go and make Lipo and Rog work. if he thinks it is always up to him to do all the chasing, this scenario will play out over and over again (just as I suggested it could).

he needs to recalibrate. not think he is in competition with the two aliens, but in a tight race for third with all the others. a podium (no matter how distant from the two aliens) would be a success considering the constant comebacks from crashes.

and then on to a fourth CSS!

Odds are you are correct in that he is in a tight battle for third. However i still want to see his performance in the big mountains before making that final conclusion. I would wait for Hautacam and his performance during the mountain TT before deciding how to ride the remainder of the tour. I think it's a perfect time to make up a bilan after stage 13.

Decide after that stage to ride tactically for third (if he hasn't fallen through the ice by then) or continue to ride to the max of my capablilties so as to measure myself against Tadej and Jonas.

 

[Sciatic]

Rly? outside of pogacar & Vingegaard?

Everyone except Vingegaard got dropped. Then stayed in Remco's draft next km and a half. Jorgenson was prob. a smudge better cause he needed to work beforehand. But not much. Lipo, Roglic were not better. Onley and Johannessen all that were there in the same group besides those already mentioned, rest got dropped.. So basically he was okay, but not great. Same as he's been whole tour really. When last tour he was clearly best of the humans, now he's as good as the best of the humans.

I think Roglic, if he can drum up a bit of enthusiasm, is the most likely to challenge him for 3rd. Jorgenson is probably going to be working a lot to try to set up (or save if he falters). Vingegaard. Or it could end up being someone like Gall with a one-off great day in the mtns that gains several minutes. Will be interesting to see the gaps after the MTT.

 

[houtdffan]

Evenepoel lost that amount of time so he could go into the breakaways and not be bothered.

It's like people ignore what Remco said before the 2023 Vuelta. He was NOT riding for podium that year. He said it meant nothing to him. It was win or go for stages. He decided to go for stages after the TT

 

[Extinction]

At this point, he needs to TT, that Is ride at his maximum pace, thinking only of his potential, on the finishing climbs and count his losses. Maybe third is possible again.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

It's like people ignore what Remco said before the 2023 Vuelta. He was NOT riding for podium that year. He said it meant nothing to him. It was win or go for stages. He decided to go for stages after the TT

Maybe. My memory is he talked it down a little bit but seemed like he was trying to stay in until he capitulated hard when Roglic attacked. Then he reset his sites and rode differently. Could be wrong, but I definitely don't think he intentionally gave up time and never intended to compete for GC at all. However, I also don't think that GC was his top priority that fall; Worlds was.

 

[Red Rick]

Maybe. My memory is he talked it down a little bit but seemed like he was trying to stay in until he capitulated hard when Roglic attacked. Then he reset his sites and rode differently. Could be wrong, but I definitely don't think he intentionally gave up time and never intended to compete for GC at all. However, I also don't think that GC was his top priority that fall; Worlds was.

From memory it was serious but it was the 2nd priority after the WC ITT, so I think he came in good but didn't have the base to get better during a GT and he was probably a bit too heavy.

 

[red_flanders]

Honestly, if you showed that photo to the average 25-year-old bro getting started in the gym, they'd probably sign up for that physique...I don't think they'd same the same for JV.

Sure, if he were 6' 2".

 

[KoopaCycling]

As said before i truly think Remco crack during vuelta 23 was mental not physical.