Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Brullnux]

Guys like Lipowitz and to a lesser extent Vingegaard tend to get underrated compared to a guy like Evenepoel because their talent is their consistency, and not really their performance on any given day or in any given classic. So you can say "Evenepoel is way more talented than them" and he is... in a lot of ways. But probably not in grand tour racing. The special thing about Pogi is that he can do both.

It's not unreasonable to think that Evenepoel will win the Tour once in his career. Pogi isn't going to be firing on all cylinders every year, he could also get injured or sick, he could skip the Tour. Same for Vingegaard. And then the race is wide open. But would you say Evenepoel has more of a chance than, say, Isaac Del Toro? I'm not sure.

Evenepoel last year was at a higher level than any other GT rider in the peloton bar the big two (and possibly Roglic) has ever been. Way better than Del Toro this year. Trouble is he's reached that climbing level once in, what, six GTs? His issue is his inconsistency rather than his 'ceiling', which is demonstrably very high but also obviously less than Vingegaard and Pogacar.

 

[Brullnux]

Remco must be the most overrated podium finisher ever even if he was almost 10 minutes behind Pogacar in the GC.

Of course Remco was ten minutes behind, Pogacar dropped three or four all timer performances. He was also ten minutes ahead of everyone else (though ofc Almeida was a domestique, but even if he hadn't been he'd have lost to Remco by about five minutes). It was a phenomenal performance in the Tour with one of the highest levels of all time – but it's also the exception to his other performances in GTs.

 

[Ulle97]

Evenepoel last year was at a higher level than any other GT rider in the peloton bar the big two (and possibly Roglic) has ever been. Way better than Del Toro this year. Trouble is he's reached that climbing level once in, what, six GTs? His issue is his inconsistency rather than his 'ceiling', which is demonstrably very high but also obviously less than Vingegaard and Pogacar.

Very fair point. Remco is very capable at times.
The problem is that we just don't know what Remco is going to turn up!!

 

[Charlyghoul]

blablablabla - Just give him two seasons of no severe injuries and he will obviously win the Tour with a super team like RB-BH will be. He is way more talented like Lipowitz. He's the only talent comparable or equal to that of Pogacar.

No chance and no chance !

 

[AmRacer]

No chance and no chance !

This, and I just would like to add, No chance.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Guys like Lipowitz and to a lesser extent Vingegaard tend to get underrated compared to a guy like Evenepoel because their talent is their consistency, and not really their performance on any given day or in any given classic. So you can say "Evenepoel is way more talented than them" and he is... in a lot of ways. But probably not in grand tour racing. The special thing about Pogi is that he can do both.

It's not unreasonable to think that Evenepoel will win the Tour once in his career. Pogi isn't going to be firing on all cylinders every year, he could also get injured or sick, he could skip the Tour. Same for Vingegaard. And then the race is wide open.

Well said, and I agree with you for the most part. I think Remco's inconsistency is largely due to not having consistent training without injuries.

But I also think Vingegaard would win LBL, Lombardy, FW, etc against anyone but Remco and Pog so I think the pattern is mostly due to scheduling and priorities.

But would you say Evenepoel has more of a chance than, say, Isaac Del Toro? I'm not sure.

Yes, absolutely I would argue that. Del Toro is the new shiny toy that everyone likes. Just like Ayuso was. Remco is categorically different imo. True generational talent.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Remco must be the most overrated podium finisher ever even if he was almost 10 minutes behind Pogacar in the GC.

Obviously not as a lot of people seems to rate Lipowitz finishing 3rd 11 minutes down on Pogacar as better than Remco finishing 3rd 9 minutes down. It might make Remco the second most overrated podium finisher, but then Lipo would be first.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Remco must be the most overrated podium finisher ever even if he was almost 10 minutes behind Pogacar in the GC.

What does that mean? As compared with Adam Yates, Richie Porte, Lipowitz, Carapaz, G. Thomas?

 

[Pozzovivo]

Obviously not as a lot of people seems to rate Lipowitz finishing 3rd 11 minutes down on Pogacar as better than Remco finishing 3rd 9 minutes down. It might make Remco the second most overrated podium finisher, but then Lipo would be first.

3rd behind Pogacar and Vingegaard is the most underrated 3rd one can achieve in the sport. What is this?

 

[Peyroteo94]

What does that mean? As compared with Adam Yates, Richie Porte, Lipowitz, Carapaz, G. Thomas?

It means his podium finish is the most hyped ever, when he was miles behind the top 2.
I don't see much difference to what Menchov did in 2010, Pinot 2014, Valverde in 2015 for example.

It's not like he was "close" to the winner like Bardet in 2017 or Franck Schleck in 2011.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Obviously not as a lot of people seems to rate Lipowitz finishing 3rd 11 minutes down on Pogacar as better than Remco finishing 3rd 9 minutes down. It might make Remco the second most overrated podium finisher, but then Lipo would be first.

Lipo isn't hyped as much as Remco. Not even close.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Lipo isn't hyped as much as Remco. Not even close.

Of course he isn’t, because he’s not the same quality rider.

The point is, there are several posters on this forum that have said Lipo should be over Remco in the hierarchy based on his 3rd place from this Tour. This means they rate Lipos 3rd over Remcos 3rd. And that makes Remcos 3rd impossible to be the most overrated podium finish.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Of course he isn’t, because he’s not the same quality rider.

The point is, there are several posters on this forum that have said Lipo should be over Remco in the hierarchy based on his 3rd place from this Tour. This means they rate Lipos 3rd over Remcos 3rd. And that makes Remcos 3rd impossible to be the most overrated podium finish.

You are not getting it...
Most overrated because no one has ever received a similar hype for just a third place and very far from the 1st place. People were talking about Remco as a future TdF winner after being 3rd. Tell me who is saying Lipo will win the Tour?

 

[Cycling111]

It may be an unpopular opinion, but I think this could hurt Remco.

He'll now be forced to focus his entire season on the Tour.

The Tour has always been the most predictable race. Unless there are accidents, the Tour is won by one of the two favorites, if not by a single favorite. The Tour hasn't, for the most part, been a race of three favorites. And Remco, as the third favorite, and we'll see if he isn't so clearly a third with the emergence of some young riders, is going to be forced to ride the Tour as Red Bull's star signing.
When will Remco win a Giro? Will he make his debut in other classics someday?

Now it seems easy to say he'll go to the Giro one year and win it, but Remco is a rider who debuted in 2019 with Pogacar. By the time he realizes it, Del Toro, Lipowitz, and others will have matured in the Giro, and he might not beat them. Lipowitz won't anymore because he's a teammate.

I think it's not in Remco's best interest to spend years obsessing over the Tour because he'd stop winning other races because he's not even the second favorite, and all that that entails. Waiting for accidents to win like Nibali?

Winning the Vuelta doesn't mean anything. Kelly, Valverde, and even Horner won the Vuelta at 42. In the Tour, what matters is being at least the second favorite. Otherwise, waiting for accidents and rider retirements, like when Froome retired, and until new dominators emerged, there were transitional winners of a single Tour. But Remco debuted the same year as Pogacar.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Remco is hardly a threat to Pog, don't be ridiculous. Pog's only realistic threat is lack of motivation, we all know that. I know Remco's your boy, but please.

Half broken, he was still good enough to screw Pog out of Amstel, lol, so let's just agree to disagree. Top form Evenepoel has plenty of races where he can bring the fight to Pog.

Quick Step was never a super team in the terms I'm talking about now (money, just buying every good rider).
Evenepoel is no threat to Pogacar in GT racing at all, not at QS, not at Red Bull. You're living in a different universe if you thinkg this is changing anything to Pogs dominance in grand tours. Only thing that's changing that is Vingegaard getting better, some sort of new alien coming into the scene or (most likely) Pog losing motivation.

Bora is also not buying every good rider. So far they've been buying 2nd rate riders that UAE or Visma don't want or need.
I didn't specify GT's or classics, just in general. I also didn't say Evenepoel would start beating Pog left and right. I spoke of posing a threat and Pog needing all the opposition he could get. Who in the current peloton would you think has a better chance of rivalling him in a few races. Van der Poel on cobbles, and then? So yes, we need every good rider to make it mildly interesting. QS has known for years they needed to step up their game, they didn't even come close (the only thing they did in 7 years that Evenepoel was there was get Landa), they made countless of hollow promises. The love was over, they parted and all parties agreed to it.

In 2023 Pog lost the TDF with 7 and a half minutes. Everybody assumed his TDF winning days were over. Things can change.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

You are not getting it...
Most overrated because no one had ever received a similar hype for just a third place and very far from the 1st place. Peopld were talking about Remco as a future TdF winner after being 3rd.

And your “point” makes no sense either. People talked about Remco as a future TdF winner long before he was third last year and that means that the third place last year didn’t change anything.

And I don’t understand at all that you find it comical that people have talked about (and are still talking about) Remco as a potential Tour winner. People like Pinot, Bardet, Kelderman were constantly talked about a potential Tour winners when they were young. Heck, even guys like Linus Gerdemann was regularly mentioned back in the days.

Tell me who is saying Lipo will win the Tour?

There are probably some people who will have said that, and we know you like to base your opinion on Remco on things a couple of people have said and then you project it on all Remco fans. But it’s less people than have said the same about Remco of course, because Remco is a much better rider.

In the Lipo thread someone wrote he’s the “biggest GC talent to emerge since Vingegaard”. Given Pog/Vinge is older and can’t go on forever one could sense a prediction that Lipowitz might win a tour in the future in that statement. And if you are consistent with the way you talk about things people say about Remco that is basically the same as saying Lipo will win the tour.

 

[Peyroteo94]

And your “point” makes no sense either. People talked about Remco as a future TdF winner long before he was third last year and that means that the third place last year didn’t change anything.

And I don’t understand at all that you find it comical that people have talked about (and are still talking about) Remco as a potential Tour winner. People like Pinot, Bardet, Kelderman were constantly talked about a potential Tour winners when they were young. Heck, even guys like Linus Gerdemann was regularly mentioned back in the days.

There are probably some people who will have said that, and we know you like to base your opinion on Remco on things a couple of people have said and then you project it on all Remco fans. But it’s less people than have said the same about Remco of course, because Remco is a much better rider.

In the Lipo thread someone wrote he’s the “biggest GC talent to emerge since Vingegaard”. Given Pog/Vinge is older and can’t go on forever one could sense a prediction that Lipowitz might win a tour in the future in that statement. And if you are consistent with the way you talk about things people say about Remco that is basically the same as saying Lipo will win the tour.

And this isn't comical? Lol
And Bardet was closer to win a Tour than Remco will ever be.

Show me those quotes.
And saying Lipo is the biggest GC threat to emerge since Vingegaard is not saying he will win the Tour one day. Pogacar is only 2 years older than Lipo btw.

 

[Charlyghoul]

I think it can also hurt Remco to go to red bull. What will his calendar look like ?
I think he really should try to win a giro, but that won’t happen now he’s gone to red bull, they’ll want him at the tour, and for what ? To come third or fourth at best ?

 

[Charlyghoul]

And this isn't comical? Lol
And Bardet was closer to win a Tour than Remco will ever be.

Agreed, At least Bardet could climb with the gc favourites , Remco cannot

 

[Pozzovivo]

No chance and no chance !

Big chance.

 

[Pozzovivo]

It means his podium finish is the most hyped ever, when he was miles behind the top 2.
I don't see much difference to what Menchov did in 2010, Pinot 2014, Valverde in 2015 for example.

It's not like he was "close" to the winner like Bardet in 2017 or Franck Schleck in 2011.

I agree that it was not close. But Pinot, Menchov and Valverde would probably not be considered favorite if #1 and #2 did not attend, while that is true for Remco in all GT he will do. Meaning he is the favorite if TP and JV don't go to a GT.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Big chance.

I think red bull just might have signed him to bolster their classics campaign and have a good chance in the worlds.
They must know he can’t win the tour, they give him the golden goose treatment about being team leader but reality is that’s not what he’s there for. A shrewd investment from red bull

 

[Pozzovivo]

Agreed, At least Bardet could climb with the gc favourites , Remco cannot

The climbing level was pretty close between the best guys back then. Groups of 7-8 would regularly go into the last km's of a summit finish together. That was SKY-train era, now TP and JV freaking nuke everyone on the first half of HC climbs - or they decide to go crazy on penultimate climbs. NEVER happened in SKY era.

 

[Pozzovivo]

People were talking about Remco as a future TdF winner after being 3rd

He is a future TDF winner and the 3rd place shows this imo.

 

[Cycling111]

And if Froome hadn't gone to the Tour, Rigoberto Uran would have won a Tour. The difference is that he was the next ; Remco isn't even the second, and that's crucial in the Tour.

Remco has faced these rivals, just as Pogacar didn't win San Remo due to a VDP. There's no point in complaining. What matters is that Remco has one more rider ahead of him than Quintana had to win the Tour. Quintana had one, Remco had two.

When we have to make those kinds of assumptions, we're aware that Remco will be conditioning his upcoming seasons for something he isn't second favorite either.