Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Berniece]

Now on to the Euro's. One can hope for some decompression and too many parties for Pogacar so he actually has a shot at the Road Race?

Euro's isn't that hard. 3400 meters of altitude, 200km's, and I'm not sure Pogacar can drop Evenepoel on Val D'Enfer because it's not that long.

 

[houtdffan]

Gold and silver at the Worlds. Only beaten by the best rider of this generation who is well on his way to becoming the best rider in the history of the sport.

He should be very proud of his achievements.

His 8th medal at the Worlds (recordholder) and 10th medal at the Worlds and Olympics combined (recordholder together with Cancellara). He truly is a Championship rider.

But to me as a fan, there's also still a small 'What if?'-story about the mechanicals. I agree that Pogacar was the strongest and the most likely scenario is that he gets dropped later in the race but I am convinced that without the mechanical he could have followed on Mont Kigali and we get a different race. It wouldn't be the first time Remco has cooked very strong riders on his wheel when they relayed with him but in this case we're talking about Pogacar so chances are small it would have affected him and judging by the time gaps and the fact that Pogacar rode solo for a very long time, it would have likely been the other way around. It's still a shame though we couldn't see a more straight up fight between them.

Now on to the Euro's. One can hope for some decompression and too many parties for Pogacar so he actually has a shot at the Road Race?

Only difference in the race would have been far fewer finishers as most of the field would have been lapped and eliminated had Remco went with Pog

 

[Berflamand]

Euro's isn't that hard. 3400 meters of altitude, 200km's, and I'm not sure Pogacar can drop Evenepoel on Val D'Enfer because it's not that long.

There's also a 7km climb at 7.2% they're doing 3 times with the final time at 70k from the finish. That's already quite late for Pogacar to start attacking nowadays.

I'm excited to see the race but I'm not getting my hopes up too much just yet.

 

[KenFiamingo]

Euro's isn't that hard. 3400 meters of altitude, 200km's, and I'm not sure Pogacar can drop Evenepoel on Val D'Enfer because it's not that long.

This very much a Mur of Huy (albeit with a lower max gradient). Pogacar definitely has the edge here. But Remco's shape is currently a lot better than at the Fleche Wallonne. Looking forward to it (and hoping both remain healthy after the return from Rwanda).

 

[Berflamand]

This very much a Mur of Huy (albeit with a lower max gradient). Pogacar definitely has the edge here. But Remco's shape is currently a lot better than at the Fleche Wallonne. Looking forward to it (and hoping both remain healthy after the return from Rwanda).

Isn't it more comparable with La Redoute than Mur de Huy?

 

[fenns]

This very much a Mur of Huy (albeit with a lower max gradient). Pogacar definitely has the edge here. But Remco's shape is currently a lot better than at the Fleche Wallonne. Looking forward to it (and hoping both remain healthy after the return from Rwanda).

I'm not convinced he is. He won DBP - nearly won Amstel but then just found the Mur de Huy too hard. He crushed the TTs in Romandie and Dauphine. His achilles heel is still difficult climbs it seems.

 

[KenFiamingo]

Isn't it more comparable with La Redoute than Mur de Huy?

Decide for yourself:

• ECC climb: 1,6km @ 9,9%
• Mur de Huy: 1,4km @ 9,7%
• La Redoute: 2km @ 8,8%

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

The broader point was him being dropped at crucial points a few times now, but always seeming to have the legs to fight back. It does not seem like it is because he has a bad day or bad legs... or whatever the explanation may be each time.

Which other races has been similar to this, where he suddenly gets dropped by 30 riders and then easily finish 2nd anyway?

 

[Salvarani]

Which other races has been similar to this, where he suddenly gets dropped by 30 riders and then easily finish 2nd anyway?

"Similar to this" and making an example that was exactly like this makes it a bit difficult to answer.

In LBL he was positioned badly, but then made it up the to be 5th-6th over Redoute. Started to chase, before stepping of bike and then just rolling to the finish. It didnt seem like the problem was the legs that time either, even though saying so, but losing the fight for position before it. That time it was mostly not being able to fight for position on the descent.

Then in Romandie dropping early to "help" Le Cerf, rather than trying to race for the win. He seemed much stronger than simply opting out of actually trying to win the race.

Dauphine.

Obviously the Tour was then a strange one.

And I dont know what to make of yesterday either, when he fought back the way he did. With those legs I feel like him dropping the way he did was strange in hindsight and the whole bike thing peculiar.

Also... anyone who has really suffered cramps knows you dont just recover that way as well either, imo. Not with the amount of climbing that was still left and specifically seeing how he rode after that.

 

[fenns]

Which other races has been similar to this, where he suddenly gets dropped by 30 riders and then easily finish 2nd anyway?

It doesn't meet your strict criteria but the Hautacam stage he got dropped but fought back to pass riders.

 

[KenFiamingo]

Also... anyone who has really suffered cramps knows you dont just recover that way as well either, imo. Not with the amount of climbing that was still left and specifically seeing how he rode after that.

I'm no sports scientist, but i assume not all cramps are equal. Cramps due to dehydration is likely game over. Cramps due to a wrong position on the bike, could be stretched out when back in the normal position.

 

[Monsi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1972584240035553699

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1972584240035553699?t=9MnUZqQA35Rj2rYusbN79Q&s=19


His plans before EC TT

 

[Berniece]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1972584240035553699

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1972584240035553699?t=9MnUZqQA35Rj2rYusbN79Q&s=19


His plans before EC TT

That's insane, if you care so much about EC TT that you want to participate in it. Just fly private... Why are you making it yourself so hard.

 

[Netserk]

I think it's a matter of perspective. Both remco and Pogacar are champions at heart. And on the road. Tadej is just the bigger champion on the road. When they compete they want to win. It's as simple as that. And I applaud that. How they cope with loss is the same thing. They knuckle down and work hard on top of their talent so as to try and achieve their next set of goals. It's just that Pogacar is more cool and collected in the aftermath (and also has the benefit of winning more), whilst Remco need to let loose his emotions. People view his denial as unsportsmanlike and arrogance. I personallly like his will to win. And if that means he lies to himself & the world to puff himself up and get mentally ready for the next bout. so be it. That is also why so many are coming out of the woodworks to bash on remco. And why so many come to defend Remco. Cause whenever he genuinely feels on form he tries to contend. He settles when he ain't feeling that strong, but when he feels strong, he (so far) has always went at it. Whereas other riders might be more quick to ride for second place.

I've seen someone comment along the lines that Remco & his fans need not bother with EUC RR cause Pogacar will smash that as well. probably. But remco should still go out there and compete. And his fans should cheer and hope for the win. that is sports. If i wanted someone that rode not to lose and is ultimately fine with being second i'd be a Van aert or Vingegaard fan. I'm not. I cheer for Remco cause he has a winning mentality.

Van Aert is better at GT cause he has a bigger engine. But Van der poel smokes him in palmares cause VDP imo can simply dig deeper in the moment. He'll give it everything in order to win. (I may be wrong about Vingegaard, but i still find it hard to put him alongside Remco, Tadej, VDP when it comes to winning mentality).

At the end of the day, you gotta applaud remco performance, you can hate on the drama, and all that comes with it. But you gotta respect his performance. So many here seem incapable of doing that.

How has Evenepoel's winning mentality been expressed in stage races?

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

"Similar to this" and making an example that was exactly like this makes it a bit difficult to answer.

I think the examples you come up with (LBL, Romandie, Dauphine and Hautacam) all have certain similarities to each other and that they looked a bit strange.
What I dont see is how yesterday are similar to these, because of how much stronger he was then everyone bar Pogacar in the end. If he yesterday had come back and then finished like 8th that would've been more similar to the previous examples, but yesterday was in my opinion completely different to these examples because he actually clearly was the second strongest in the race.

I would therefore say that yesterday is the first example of him being suddenly dropped and then actually fight back and dominate the field (minus Pogacar) and that it therefore was something completely different than what we saw on Hautacam, LBL etc.

I think comparing with Hautacam stage is good, because it highlights the massive differences:
- On Soulour he got dropped early and seemed to ride a steady pace the whole climb. On Mont Kigali he responded to Pogacars attack, as one of only 3-4 riders, was 2nd with 500 meters to go of the climb and then suddenly went out of the line and got passed by 20-25 riders.
- On Hautacam stage he fought back but just from the bottom of Hautacam he did his own pace, meaning that the Hautacam stage was like a 55km long steady effort. Yesterday he rode the last part of Mount Kigali and the Mur de Kigali (and the parts in between and just after the Mur) slow and lost a lot of time there. Then after the second bike change he rode the final laps much, much faster than he rode in that section from Mount Kigali to the second bike change. Too me that shows that on Hautacam stage he rode the whole thing more or less as hard as he could, he just wasnt good enough that day while yesterday he rode a long part of the race way slower than he could've done as he proved to be much faster again in the last 60k.
- On Hautacam stage he got dropped by riders like THJ and Vaquelin, yesterday he dropped much better riders. That's a massive difference.

I think that for many of the races previous this year it's been a good reason to ask the question "what the F actually happened here?", because what happened at LBL, Romandie, Hautacam etc in some form definitiviely looks strange, but yesterday I think it's pretty obvious that the mechanical on the first bike definitiviely was the reason for what happened to him on Mount Kigali and Mur de Kigali, because of how he raced in the end.

 

[Salvarani]

I think the examples you come up with (LBL, Romandie, Dauphine and Hautacam) all have certain similarities to each other and that they looked a bit strange.
What I dont see is how yesterday are similar to these, because of how much stronger he was then everyone bar Pogacar in the end. If he yesterday had come back and then finished like 8th that would've been more similar to the previous examples, but yesterday was in my opinion completely different to these examples because he actually clearly was the second strongest in the race.

I would therefore say that yesterday is the first example of him being suddenly dropped and then actually fight back and dominate the field (minus Pogacar) and that it therefore was something completely different than what we saw on Hautacam, LBL etc.

I think comparing with Hautacam stage is good, because it highlights the massive differences:
- On Soulour he got dropped early and seemed to ride a steady pace the whole climb. On Mont Kigali he responded to Pogacars attack, as one of only 3-4 riders, was 2nd with 500 meters to go of the climb and then suddenly went out of the line and got passed by 20-25 riders.
- On Hautacam stage he fought back but just from the bottom of Hautacam he did his own pace, meaning that the Hautacam stage was like a 55km long steady effort. Yesterday he rode the last part of Mount Kigali and the Mur de Kigali (and the parts in between and just after the Mur) slow and lost a lot of time there. Then after the second bike change he rode the final laps much, much faster than he rode in that section from Mount Kigali to the second bike change. Too me that shows that on Hautacam stage he rode the whole thing more or less as hard as he could, he just wasnt good enough that day while yesterday he rode a long part of the race way slower than he could've done as he proved to be much faster again in the last 60k.
- On Hautacam stage he got dropped by riders like THJ and Vaquelin, yesterday he dropped much better riders. That's a massive difference.

I think that for many of the races previous this year it's been a good reason to ask the question "what the F actually happened here?", because what happened at LBL, Romandie, Hautacam etc in some form definitiviely looks strange, but yesterday I think it's pretty obvious that the mechanical on the first bike definitiviely was the reason for what happened to him on Mount Kigali and Mur de Kigali, because of how he raced in the end.

But he did ride well in LBL after Pog was gone... he climbed Redoute fast, made up many places, and was chasing for a bit right after. Much like yesterday, until stepping of the bike on the last climb and just giving up in LBL. The difference being it wasnt much left in LBL when he did that, compared to yesterday.

Im pretty sure Remco would have made it back to finish 2nd, if it that been 50-60 km left in LBL as well. Hence him saying he had a bad day in LBL made little sense after just seeing how he rode. He looked like he was strong.

He was also stronger in Romandie. He looked like he was soft-pedaling with Le Cerf on his wheel. He could have fought for the win.

Thats why the drop yesterday is similar, he drops but looks like he was much stronger than that.

What I have gathered:
1. He has trouble fighting for position in a big peloton. He loses places. Could be because of technical ability or because he doesnt like the fight. He freezes up.

2. He has trouble pushing a certain amount of watts on the climbs. He blows up. But can push his watts for a long time and we know riders gets cooked by following him, even being in his wheel. Because he has such a low position. Riders has spoken about this. Hence why he easily dropped Skjelmose and Healy after dragging them along for a while yesterday.

 

[Offline]

0 reason to think that.

Disagree - 1 big reason.
= his head
He was major frustrated and looked like he gave up before he got a gift from the organizers. 100% would have DNF’ed. For sure he was strong enough to come back on his own, but wouldn’t have had the metal capacity.
That’s was clear.

 

[stekelegel]

It is clear to me that he still has a footballing mindset. In soccer (im a coach/ref) you can use that your advantage. The requiered effort os much shorter and explosive. The boost of adrenaline is really useful to give everything for 5 minutes. It always amazes me how a team can be subdued for 85 minutes, score a lucky goals and suddenly they are running twice as fast. But in cycling, it is detrimental. You use energy that needs to be conserved. I always thought it would work aganist most in grand tours, but here again, he cant help himself. He just goes into overdrive.

 

[Red Rick]

Disagree - 1 big reason.
= his head
He was major frustrated and looked like he gave up before he got a gift from the organizers. 100% would have DNF’ed. For sure he was strong enough to come back on his own, but wouldn’t have had the metal capacity.
That’s was clear.

He has finished the WC in the past after getting hopelessly dropped, so I would say he'd finish.

 

[Salvarani]

He has finished the WC in the past after getting hopelessly dropped, so I would say he'd finish.

When was he hopelessly dropped? I cant remember one time when that occured, after really trying to follow.

2021 he went on a long break, which made the race harder.

2022, he won.

2023, it didnt seem like he was that arsed in the RR and dropped after trying a couple of attacks. Won the ITT.

2024, didnt even try to follow. But again, rode good in the end and was pushing the group behind.

 

[Red Rick]

When was he hopelessly dropped? I cant remember one time when that occured, after really trying to follow.

2021 he went on a long break, which made the race harder.

2022, he won.

2023, it didnt seem like he was that arsed in the RR and dropped after trying a couple of attacks. Won the ITT.

2024, didnt even try to follow. But again, rode good in the end and was pushing the group behind.

In Lombardia 2023 he was basically among the first to get dropped on Passo di Ganda from a group of 30+ riders, he kept going and ended up finishing 9th.

For all my criticism of Evenepoel, DNFing 1 day races isn't one of them.

 

[Salvarani]

In Lombardia 2023 he was basically among the first to get dropped on Passo di Ganda from a group of 30+ riders, he kept going and ended up finishing 9th.

I thought we talked about the WC.

Anyway, that seems similar to yesterday and the questions I have been asking. It seems to happen quite often that he is dropped on the climb, but seems much stronger than that, and what the problem could be.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Anyway, that seems similar to yesterday and the questions I have been asking. It seems to happen quite often that he is dropped on the climb, but seems much stronger than that, and what the problem could be.

But yesterday is the only time that he’s been dropped like that and then come back to smoke (almost) everybody. Which means yesterday is a big outlier and because yesterday can easily be explained with the bike issues it looks very strange in my eyes to connect yesterday with those races that are have clearly been different..

 

[KenFiamingo]

In Lombardia 2023 he was basically among the first to get dropped on Passo di Ganda from a group of 30+ riders, he kept going and ended up finishing 9th.

For all my criticism of Evenepoel, DNFing 1 day races isn't one of them.

Don't take the end of the 2023 season as a reference. After the covid DNF at the Giro, the main focus was on the WCTT which was held in mid August which meant that his Vuelta prep was poor compared to the year before (weight!). Basically, after the WCTT he was dragging himself to the end of the season.

Last year he managed to pull himself together after the Olympics, barely getting in shape in time for the Worlds. A top shape Remco would've always dropped the group for 2nd place. Result-wise he pulled of off his best Lombardia, but IMO he's a lot better now.

 

[Salvarani]

But yesterday is the only time that he’s been dropped like that and then come back to smoke (almost) everybody. Which means yesterday is a big outlier and because yesterday can easily be explained with the bike issues it looks very strange in my eyes to connect yesterday with those races that are have clearly been different..

I don’t find the questions and thoughts strange at all on the subject. I believe it to be more complex.