Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[KoopaCycling]

Remco looked good today but i haven't seen anything that i haven't seen in the fall of last year yet. Better than the opponents overall. (flat, climbs, descend combined) but have not noticed a climbing performance increase. Still take Pogacar away and he can beat anyone in the Ardennes & Lombardia that's for sure.

He did work hard today, dug deep doing a lot of work for a 'minor' victory. then again, not like that work will have a negative effect on his primary goals methinks. Hopefully it will do the opposite and bring him dividents.

 

[red_flanders]

Remco looked good today but i haven't seen anything that i haven't seen in the fall of last year yet. Better than the opponents overall. (flat, climbs, descend combined) but have not noticed a climbing performance increase. Still take Pogacar away and he can beat anyone in the Ardennes & Lombardia that's for sure.

He did work hard today, dug deep doing a lot of work for a 'minor' victory. then again, not like that work will have a negative effect on his primary goals methinks. Hopefully it will do the opposite and bring him dividents.

Yes, it's a January training ride and he's stronger than the guys he's training with.

Not sure what could be gleaned beyond that. Other than +3 professional wins and a nice start with a new team.

 

[AmRacer]

Yes, it's a January training ride and he's stronger than the guys he's training with.

Not sure what could be gleaned beyond that. Other than +3 professional wins and a nice start with a new team.

It would be something if it were +3 unprofessional wins 🤪

 

[red_flanders]

It would be something if it were +3 unprofessional wins 🤪

He has 143 city limits sprint victories in Tenerife... 😂

 

[vappaxbipmv]

Yes you do. Cause if Remco was given the green light on a semi hilly stage from Visma, and for some reason Pogacar is caught offguard (unlikely but it's a hypothetical) and remco takes a couple of minutes. Pogacar and UAE would need to counter and burn fuel on every Remco attack. Whilst Vingegaard can sit up and follow. Keeping more people in contention and putting Pogacar in choice trouble, not allowing simplification is a far better strategy, then reducing it to a 1vs1 and hope for the best.

Reducing it to 1v1 and hoping Pogacar drops out if pretty much the only hope anyone has at this point. Also, Remco taking minutes on Pogacar in one stage is such a delusional take I won't even address it

 

[Cycling111]

Remco looked good today but i haven't seen anything that i haven't seen in the fall of last year yet. Better than the opponents overall. (flat, climbs, descend combined) but have not noticed a climbing performance increase. Still take Pogacar away and he can beat anyone in the Ardennes & Lombardia that's for sure.

He did work hard today, dug deep doing a lot of work for a 'minor' victory. then again, not like that work will have a negative effect on his primary goals methinks. Hopefully it will do the opposite and bring him dividents.

Do you see him as a favorite in FW? (without Pogacar)

 

[KoopaCycling]

Do you see him as a favorite in FW? (without Pogacar)

Not as the main favourite, but he's not without a chance. There are more explosive riders, but timing and prolonged effort are often key as well. Plus maybe Red bull and remco can tweak the known formula of waiting for the final wall.

I know Amstel ain't Ardennes but i do count it amongst those later spring classics. (Amstel, FW, LBL) So that's 2 outta 3 and an outsider shot at the third without Pogacar imo.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Reducing it to 1v1 and hoping Pogacar drops out if pretty much the only hope anyone has at this point. Also, Remco taking minutes on Pogacar in one stage is such a delusional take I won't even address it

Nah, that ain't his only hope, you just wanna make it sound like that cause those tactics are in Pogacar favour.
Keeping things messy can always bring out unexpected results. I'd never have taken Kuss or Pereiro as GT winners, but here we are. I also never expected Sastre to win the tour or Yates to win the Giro in the manner that they did. It's not cause US Postal under Armstrong, and UAE under Pogacar have went out of their way to reduce the chaos and simplify the race that it will always go that way.

Even if nothing happens to Pogacar but an illness sweeps through his team, he won't be able to control every stage unless he makes allies. If instead his rivals unite to burn him up even he should have his limits. At which point every stage, not just the mountain stages can become GC battles. If instead Jonas helps Pogacar out by making it a simple 1 vs 1 he can still write another Tour under his name. That ain't so certain if Visma plays it smart.

You not wanting to adress my previous point, is just you missing the point of why a chaotic race can actually benefit his rivals instead of his rivals helping Pogacar simplify the race. Once the race is simplified Pogacar will probably win 99% of the time. if it ain't simplified and there is chaos, that number i pulled out of my hat i'm convinced drops.

 

[Cycling111]

Although you compare Pogacar to US Postal, a tasteless comparison (Then don't get angry at other, less offensive comments), Pogacar is a rider who handles himself quite well on his own. In 2020, he won the Tour de France single-handedly; his team was terrible. He doesn't have the strongest national team and wins, and the Classics against MVDP in recent years have given him a lot of experience in handling certain situations.

You talk about cooperation as if Vingegaard weren't interested in eliminating Remco. They're not on the same team, and Lipowitz isn't a false contender, as he believed with Roglic in 2022.

Pogacar isn't the same rider either; aside from his physical condition, he's improved a lot with experience.

Pereiro won the Tour due to a disqualification, and Kuss because the three strongest riders were on the same team.
The other ridess you mentioned simply didn't beat someone aiming for a fifth Tour victory.

Vingegaard isn't Remo's ally. Remco's primary goal is to equal Vingegaard; they're rivals in the Tour.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Although you compare Pogacar to US Postal, a tasteless comparison (Then don't get angry at other, less offensive comments), Pogacar is a rider who handles himself quite well on his own. In 2020, he won the Tour de France single-handedly; his team was terrible. He doesn't have the strongest national team and wins, and the Classics against MVDP in recent years have given him a lot of experience in handling certain situations.

You talk about cooperation as if Vingegaard weren't interested in eliminating Remco. They're not on the same team, and Lipowitz isn't a false contender, as he believed with Roglic in 2022.

Pogacar isn't the same rider either; aside from his physical condition, he's improved a lot with experience.

Pereiro won the Tour due to a disqualification, and Kuss because the three strongest riders were on the same team.
The other ridess you mentioned simply didn't beat someone aiming for a fifth Tour victory.

Vingegaard isn't Remo's ally. Remco's primary goal is to equal Vingegaard; they're rivals in the Tour.

Jumbo thought it was in the bag, as did the rest of the world and did not see Pogacar as the threat he was. It ain't a tasteless comparison. Both UAE and US Postal are/were designed to streamline and simplify the Tour.[content deleted]

I talk about what would be the best tactics for Vingegaard, not what he wants to do. I'm definitely not talking about what would be the best tactics for Jonas to help Pogacar win. Which i feel is what making it a 1vs 1 again is. That's just Visma helping Pogacar. If Jonas does not care about anything else but winning he should consider gambling at this point.

Kuss was given time cause Soudal could not respond to every Visma domestique not named Vingegaard and Roglic. And the rest of the peloton chose not to help Soudal control the race. Pereiro won cause they did not saw him as a threat and allowed him time whilst looking at each other. In both cases some chaos was involved.

Sastre and Yates won cause the main contenders were also to busy looking at each other. Chaos thus indeed proves helpful to make someone not expected win a race.

Vingegaard isn't Remco ally, but their teams and themselves should ride to a certain extent as allies to bring down Pogacar. In any case your moving the goalposts, you are making it about intent of Jonas now. Not which tactics would benefit Jonas most if all he cares about is the win.

 

[vappaxbipmv]

Jumbo thought it was in the bag, as did the rest of the world and did not see Pogacar as the threat he was. It ain't a tasteless comparison. Both UAE and US Postal are/were designed to streamline and simplify the Tour. [deleted content]

I talk about what would be the best tactics for Vingegaard, not what he wants to do. I'm definitely not talking about what would be the best tactics for Jonas to help Pogacar win. Which i feel is what making it a 1vs 1 again is. That's just Visma helping Pogacar. If Jonas does not care about anything else but winning he should consider gambling at this point.

Kuss was given time cause Soudal could not respond to every Visma domestique not named Vingegaard and Roglic. And the rest of the peloton chose not to help Soudal control the race. Pereiro won cause they did not saw him as a threat and allowed him time whilst looking at each other. In both cases some chaos was involved.

Sastre and Yates won cause the main contenders were also to busy looking at each other. Chaos thus indeed proves helpful to make someone not expected win a race.

Vingegaard isn't Remco ally, but their teams and themselves should ride to a certain extent as allies to bring down Pogacar. In any case your moving the goalposts, you are making it about intent of Jonas now. Not which tactics would benefit Jonas most if all he cares about is the win.

At this point, the only reasonable way I see anyone else winning, regardless of tactics or working together, is if Pogacar has to abandon. In which case you HAVE to be 2nd. It doesn't help you at all if he drops out and you're beaten by someone else because you're still losing the Tour. I'm not saying you should always work with him, but in the aforementioned situation (Tourmalet attack and only Jonas can follow) I think he should. Because you can lose at most 4s and if you wait for the group it's more likely you lose more, plus you reduce your chances of being 2nd (1st if anything happens to Pogacar) by not taking time when you could

 

[KoopaCycling]

Not sure where to post this but there are some interesting youngsters this year who might surprise the established order.

Del Toro, Seixas, Widar, Nys. I'm very curious how they'll stack up this year against Remco, Jonas, Tadej.

 

[AmRacer]

Not sure where to post this but there are some interesting youngsters this year who might surprise the established order.

Del Toro, Seixas, Widar, Nys. I'm very curious how they'll stack up this year against Remco, Jonas, Tadej.

In one day races, not a chance
In stage races, not a chance

 

[Berniece]

Not sure where to post this but there are some interesting youngsters this year who might surprise the established order.

Del Toro, Seixas, Widar, Nys. I'm very curious how they'll stack up this year against Remco, Jonas, Tadej.

Don’t think any one of them will challenge the established order. Maybe Del Toro, but doubt it