Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Pozzovivo]

He's an amazing talent, but as I said, there's a mentalities problem with Remco, he seems to shut down when things go against him, like the Vuelta in 2023.
Also the debth of talent now is much better than before, I can't see him beating Del Torro foe example.

But Simon Yates can beat Del Toro?

 

[HashRouge]

Pogacar is a very relevant example. He is very similar to Evenepoel in many ways. Also, plenty of other riders have won monuments and the GT's. Only because Froome and Contador refused it was all of a sudden an established fact that it was a categorical difference between being a "one day specialist" and "GT rider". Nonesense if you ask me.

I think the point is that it is harder for Remco to do what Pogacar does. Pogacar's classics form and GT form don't seem to be significantly different. I know he always comes into the Tour a bit lighter than he would for, say, LBL, but it's not a big difference. Whereas Remco in classics form doesn't seem to do as well with long, steep climbs. I think it makes it harder for him to do both than for Pogacar. Doesn't mean he can't, it's just difficult, and I think it explains why we get days like today. He's not in top climbing form, even if he's looked great in one day races.

 

[Berniece]

I think the point is that it is harder for Remco to do what Pogacar does. Pogacar's classics form and GT form don't seem to be significantly different. I know he always comes into the Tour a bit lighter than he would for, say, LBL, but it's not a big difference. Whereas Remco in classics form doesn't seem to do as well with long, steep climbs. I think it makes it harder for him to do both than for Pogacar. Doesn't mean he can't, it's just difficult, and I think it explains why we get days like today. He's not in top climbing form, even if he's looked great in one day races.

Then choose which races you want to do during spring. Go to your GT weight and race things like UAE Tour/Paris-Nice etc. Or go to your classics weight and do things like Valencia.

Although that won't work either, he needs to lose weight to be competitive with Pogacar in LBL

 

[YavorD]

Pogacar is a very relevant example. He is very similar to Evenepoel in many ways. Also, plenty of other riders have won monuments and the GT's. Only because Froome and Contador refused it was all of a sudden an established fact that it was a categorical difference between being a "one day specialist" and "GT rider". Nonesense if you ask me.

Yeah, certainly Indurain and Armstrong have won plenty of monuments.
In fact how many riders in the last 40 years have won multiple GT's and monuments? Pogacar and Nibali only, I think. So certainly Pogacar isn't a relevant example.
If Evenepoel decides to "specialise" on stage races it won't hinder his chances in Lombardia ba LBL.

 

[Pozzovivo]

I think the point is that it is harder for Remco to do what Pogacar does. Pogacar's classics form and GT form don't seem to be significantly different. I know he always comes into the Tour a bit lighter than he would for, say, LBL, but it's not a big difference. Whereas Remco in classics form doesn't seem to do as well with long, steep climbs. I think it makes it harder for him to do both than for Pogacar. Doesn't mean he can't, it's just difficult, and I think it explains why we get days like today. He's not in top climbing form, even if he's looked great in one day races.

I agree but does it really matter that it is easier for Pog?

I honestly think Remco can and will win all five monuments and all grand tours the next five years. He really should be able to do that looking at his talent compared to his non-pog competitors.

 

[HashRouge]

Then choose which races you want to do during spring. Go to your GT weight and race things like UAE Tour/Paris-Nice etc. Or go to your classics weight and do things like Valencia.

Although that won't work either, he needs to lose weight to be competitive with Pogacar in LBL

Oh I definitely agree with you. I was expecting him to be in really good climbing shape here, I'm a bit surprised he did so badly today.

 

[ashhutch1997]

But Simon Yates can beat Del Toro?

A 21 year old Del Torro being a GC contender for the first time is not the same as a Del Torro in his mid 20's with more GC experience . I mean in the Vuelta Remco couldn't beat Sepp Kuss...

 

[Netserk]

Pogacar is a very relevant example. He is very similar to Evenepoel in many ways. Also, plenty of other riders have won monuments and the GT's. Only because Froome and Contador refused it was all of a sudden an established fact that it was a categorical difference between being a "one day specialist" and "GT rider". Nonesense if you ask me.

froome rode two times an uphill finish on mur de huy in 2015

guess in which context he dropped valverde

 

[Cycling111]

Yeah, certainly Indurain and Armstrong have won plenty of monuments.
In fact how many riders in the last 40 years have won multiple GT's and monuments? Pogacar and Nibali only, I think. So certainly Pogacar isn't a relevant example.
If Evenepoel decides to "specialise" on stage races it won't hinder his chances in Lombardia ba LBL.

In fact, Pogacar is the first cyclist in 34 years to have participated in Roubaix while being the reigning Tour winner. LeMond 1991.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Yeah, certainly Indurain and Armstrong have won plenty of monuments.
In fact how many riders in the last 40 years have won multiple GT's and monuments? Pogacar and Nibali only, I think. So certainly Pogacar isn't a relevant example.
If Evenepoel decides to "specialise" on stage races it won't hinder his chances in Lombardia ba LBL.

Armstrong won plenty of top level one day races (includign a monument status WORLD champs one day race) and finished 2nd in LBL. Valverde won multiple monuments if not multiple GTs. That's just splitting hairs. Schleck won a monument and the Tour btw.

Both Nibali and Valverde tried RVV like once and did really well. If they had tagreted it from the start they could have won it for sure.

 

[Cycling111]

Armstrong won plenty of top level one day races (includign a monument status WORLD champs one day race) and finished 2nd in LBL. Valverde won multiple monuments if not multiple GTs. That's just splitting hairs. Schleck won a monument and the Tour btw.

Valverde never won a Tour de France. When Armstrong started winning the Tour, he stopped participating in the Classics. The schedule of that Armstrong´s was more like Vingegaard's schedule than Pogacar's.

As I said, LeMond is the last rider who, having won the Tour the previous year, competed in Paris-Roubaix the following year. Thirty-four years have passed.

Only three riders have won a Tour de France and at least two Monuments in the same year: Meckx, Bobet, and Pogacar.

No, it's not common. You can't use Valverde as an example, since he wasn't expected to win the Tour de France, and despite being one of the longest-live cyclists in history, look how many times he's participated in Milan-San Remo and the Tour of Flanders.

 

[Pozzovivo]

A 21 year old Del Torro being a GC contender for the first time is not the same as a Del Torro in his mid 20's with more GC experience . I mean in the Vuelta Remco couldn't beat Sepp Kuss...

I think Evenepoel is just better than Del Toro the next five years. Age is no longer that good of a predictor of future performance. We'll see.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Valverde never won a Tour de France. When Armstrong started winning the Tour, he stopped participating in the Classics. The schedule of that Armstrong´s was more like Vingegaard's schedule than Pogacar's.

As I said, LeMond is the last rider who, having won the Tour the previous year, competed in Paris-Roubaix the following year. Thirty-four years have passed.

Only three riders have won a Tour de France and at least two Monuments in the same year: Meckx, Bobet, and Pogacar.

No, it's not common. You can't use Valverde as an example, since he wasn't expected to win the Tour de France, and despite being one of the longest-live cyclists in history, look how many times he's participated in Milan-San Remo and the Tour of Flanders.

I think we are just arguing past each otehr at this point. Pleanty of riders have won GT's and monuments or equivalent level one day races. No categorical difference between riders who can do well in either - that's what I'm saying. Vingegaard can win multiple monuments if he targets it.

 

[AmRacer]

No, but seriously. Pog and JV can have problems like everyone else while RE gets a clean run at things for once. I mean, look at the five year perspective. Remco is more likely to win the Tour before he retires than not, imo. He has 10x the talent of Bernal, Thomas, Froome, Nibali, Evans, Wiggins, Sastre, Pereiro Sio and so on.

Maybe not as a GT GC rider.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Maybe not as a GT GC rider.

Perhaps not compared to Froome. I'll concede that. For the rest though? Is Geraint Thomas better than Evenepoel??

 

[Netserk]

Vingegaard can win multiple monuments if he targets it.

he targeted lombardia in both 2021 and 2022. he didnt do much better than in the ardennes the same years

the following years he instead targeted two gts each year, with much better results

 

[YavorD]

Armstrong won plenty of top level one day races (includign a monument status WORLD champs one day race) and finished 2nd in LBL. Valverde won multiple monuments if not multiple GTs. That's just splitting hairs. Schleck won a monument and the Tour btw.

Armstrong is pretty unique since his career is literally split in 2 parts.
Overall career palmares include big one day races and 7 Tours (okay no t really, but..) whereas if you look in detail you'll see the specialisation.

Yes, thanks for bringing Valverde, why didn't you include Roglic as well? Or perhaps Cunego or Bugno?
They just prove it's very hard to win MULTIPLE monuments and GTs.
Heck, even Armstrong didn't win multiple.

 

[houtdffan]

NO excuse for today

If he was feeling bad, why did he try and attack?

 

[Pozzovivo]

Armstrong is pretty unique since his career is literally split in 2 parts.
Overall career palmares include big one day races and 7 Tours (okay no t really, but..) whereas if you look in detail you'll see the specialisation.

Yes, thanks for bringing Valverde, why didn't you include Roglic as well? Or perhaps Cunego or Bugno?
They just prove it's very hard to win MULTIPLE monuments and GTs.
Heck, even Armstrong didn't win multiple.

I could have named plenty of riders as I said.

Of course it is SUPERDUPER hard. But generational talents still do it, and did it in the past, even though some GC riders never seems to care - and this created the false impression that there was some big difference between one day riders and GT GC riders. Which I don't believe. Nor do I believe that doing PR or RVV hinders riders chances at winning the Tour. Which is very difficult of course.

 

[Pozzovivo]

NO excuse for today

If he was feeling bad, why did he try and attack?

he tried to follow the best because he has that mentality always. He never attacked.

 

[Salvarani]

I also think Remco has a mentality issue when things don't go his way, which will prevent him from ever winning the Tour, or example, the Vuelta 23, ect.

Not that it was immense pressure here, but there were sure a lot of people looking for how his performance was gonna be here today. It was the first real big test this season.

When the stakes are high, he has gone missing a few times now over the past few years. One has to analyse it.

He is at his best when a lot of things is to his advantage and he is control. Can decide when to go. Or in ITTs, where he can just focus on himself.

 

[jotafap]

Remco has been completely destroyed in I don’t know how many latest Monuments he’s participated in, races that perfectly suit his characteristics, yet somehow we’re almost guaranteeing he can win all five Monuments?

Hell, even Pogacar might fall short in two out of five. This discussion feels like a parallel reality.

 

[Berniece]

Remco has been completely destroyed in I don’t know how many latest Monuments he’s participated in, races that perfectly suit his characteristics, yet somehow we’re almost guaranteeing he can win all five Monuments?

Hell, even Pogacar might fall short in two out of five. This discussion feels like a parallel reality.

Destroyed? Please...

 

[YavorD]

I could have named plenty of riders as I said.

Of course it is SUPERDUPER hard. But generational talents still do it, and did it in the past, even though some GC riders never seems to care - and this created the false impression that there was some big difference between one day riders and GT GC riders. Which I don't believe. Nor do I believe that doing PR or RVV hinders riders chances at winning the Tour. Which is very difficult of course.

Maybe doing it in the generation of Pogacar, Vingegaard and MVDP makes it twice harder.
And maybe that's why Evenepoel has to choose his battles. He could probably get away with it 10 or 20 years ago, but nowadays..

 

[rghysens]

I also think Remco has a mentality issue when things don't go his way, which will prevent him from ever winning the Tour, or example, the Vuelta 23, ect.

This.
100% this. The moment things aren´t going well enough, he breaks down mentally. Hence the inexplicable implosions from time to time.