Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[AmRacer]

Not sure what you want me to say. There are pictures of him without a shirt in spring classics, there's no fat, he's lean and muscular. You don't see a difference compared to what he looked like at TDF 2024?

Arnold S is jealous of Remco's muscles.

 

[James M]

Maybe they feel it's too difficult for him to stay at such a weight all season long. That it's not healthy, and will drain him throughout the season. Which is fine, but then don't show up at UAE Tour. Go ride Algarve or Ruta Del Sol if it suits you more. Doesn't mean he doesn't need to go for that weight and goal during TDF though.

He might have won Algarve, and if he wanted a mental boost he would have gone there but that aint helping.

The reality is that if he wants to contend for the Tour, being good isnt enough either for him. He needs to improve right, and for that something has to give. And hes trying that.

 

[Peyresourde]

I think 1 minute more per hour of climbing is more accurate. (with 1 kg difference) This depends on the specifics of course.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think 1 minute more per hour of climbing is more accurate. (with 1 kg difference) This depends on the specifics of course.

For standard weight elite climber (i.e. 65 kg) and moderate climb length It should be about 0.1 w/kg so for steep climbs (i.e. 10+ %) indeed almost 1 sec/min or 1 min/hour. For shallower climbs it's less than that.

 

[Berniece]

What I am trying to say is that imho he would be a much better cyclists if he somehow finds enough discipline to lose 5 kg. And he would be both a better one day racer and GT rider

I agree, but not sure it has to do with discipline, but with how nutritionists and and trainers decide what he needs to do. I can remember that before TDF 2024, he wasn't riding good enough at Dauphine. He took it up on himself, ignoring the nutritionist of SOQ advice to lose extra weight for TDF 2024.

 

[Red Rick]

For standard weight elite climber (i.e. 65 kg) and moderate climb length It should be about 0.1 w/kg so for steep climbs (i.e. 10+ %) indeed almost 1 sec/min or 1 min/hour. For shallower climbs it's less than that.

The problem is when you apply it to climbs of any length suddenly results on short climbs become rather implausible. There is some tradeoff at the very least, the shorter the effort and easier the overall stage the more it likely is.

 

[Salvarani]

I agree, but not sure it has to do with discipline, but with how nutritionists and and trainers decide what he needs to do. I can remember that before TDF 2024, he wasn't riding good enough at Dauphine. He took it up on himself, ignoring the nutritionist of SOQ advice to lose extra weight for TDF 2024.

That also says a lot about him and his personality.

His energy/passion is a great asset, but it could also be that he is his own worst enemy sometimes. I think there are a few instances where we have seen that.

Remco also definitely strike me as a person that may bump horns with people here and there, who may need some extra support and treatment from staff. High-maintence so to speak. He wouldnt be the first star to need that, but it also could mean he might not be as easy to deal with for the staff. Especially, if Remco think he is right... which he could be... but maybe not all the time either.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Also, Pogacar has yet to win a Tour de France by a bigger gap than Nibali did.

And Nibali actually gained significant time in a cobbled stage.

 

[Red Rick]

And Nibali actually gained significant time in a cobbled stage.

Wet cobbles might I add, none of that fake dry ***

 

[Netserk]

I think 1 minute more per hour of climbing is more accurate. (with 1 kg difference) This depends on the specifics of course.

a 0 watts marginal kg of body weight

yeah i dont think evenepoel cannot gain any more power at 65 kg weight vs 60 kg

why otherwise stop at 60 kg -- why not 55

 

[Divergence]

I agree, but not sure it has to do with discipline, but with how nutritionists and and trainers decide what he needs to do. I can remember that before TDF 2024, he wasn't riding good enough at Dauphine. He took it up on himself, ignoring the nutritionist of SOQ advice to lose extra weight for TDF 2024.

Well there are two possibilities.
1. The trainers decide what he does and he is in the current state because he is following their advice. This would not surprise me (at least the trainers' part given my low opinion of them) but why would Remco just follow the bad advice. If he knows what he had to do to perform well in TdF24 or Vuelta22 then why just not extrapolate from there.
2. He knows where he needs to be but he just cannot get there because of distractions and/or lack of discipline.

All in all, the conclusion is the same and I hope he is going to focus more on what is important and we get to see some nice racing.

 

[Extinction]

The major issue may be that he has such an unbounded view on what he can achieve, possibly strengthened by his successes as a junior and early results, that anything less is seen as a failure.

Yea, that success as a junior and initial pro results still as a teenager created a hype within and around him that simply needed further data for verification. Doubtless he has a huge engine. Unfortunately, however, his junior career was magnified and projected upon a hypothetical Merckxian future, before high mountain performance data was really known. He did not race Avenir, no Baby Giro either, to see what signs of mountain goat status might have apperared or not. And then nobody at the time saw a Pogacar, a Vingegaard and now a del Toro, a Seixas on the horizon. In hindsight he should have done one more amateur season with the hardest climbing races on his schedule. It quite possibly would have prepared him and his sponsors better for planning his pro career and its realistic objectives.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The problem is when you apply it to climbs of any length suddenly results on short climbs become rather implausible. There is some tradeoff at the very least, the shorter the effort and easier the overall stage the more it likely is.

On harder stages the difference on the final MTF could be considerably bigger than 1 sec/min of course due to cumulative fatigue.

 

[Red Rick]

On harder stages the difference on the final MTF could be considerably bigger than 1 sec/min of course due to cumulative fatigue.

I've honestly not looked into the physiological specifics, but wouldn't a lower fat% also just mean the body is gonna utilize less fat at the same intensity due to less fat easily available, so you just get tired more easily?

So being full anorexia mode made more sense in an era when you used to do a penultimate climb at 4w/kg and all it's glory.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I've honestly not looked into the physiological specifics, but wouldn't a lower fat% also just mean the body is gonna utilize less fat at the same intensity due to less fat easily available, so you just get tired more easily?

So being full anorexia mode made more sense in an era when you used to do a penultimate climb at 4w/kg and all it's glory.

They consume ridiculous amount of carbs nowadays so I'm not sure if their fat comsumption is higher than before. I don't think so regarding high intensity MTF but maybe it's the case for earlier phases of races.

As for being more fatty, those marathon world-beaters are still super-thin aren't they? I think they still have enough fat reserves.

 

[Divergence]

I've honestly not looked into the physiological specifics, but wouldn't a lower fat% also just mean the body is gonna utilize less fat at the same intensity due to less fat easily available, so you just get tired more easily?

So being full anorexia mode made more sense in an era when you used to do a penultimate climb at 4w/kg and all it's glory.

I believe this would never be an issue in a road race. Also, how do you define being tired?

 

[AmRacer]

They consume ridiculous amount of carbs nowadays so I'm not sure if their fat comsumption is higher than before. I don't think so regarding high intensity MTF but maybe it's the case for earlier phases of races.

As for being more fatty, those marathon world-beaters are still super-thin aren't they? I think they still have enough fat reserves.

But they run a marathon a month? Cycling racers do three marathon a day

 

[AmRacer]

I believe this would never be an issue in a road race. Also, how do you define being tired?

Getting dropped

 

[Krzysztof_O]

But they run a marathon a month? Cycling racers do three marathon a day

They still run 20-30 km daily as training (mostly in fat burning zones).

 

[Divergence]

Getting dropped

Then no, a fully functioning road cyclist is not getting dropped because he does not have enough fat in his body.

 

[AmRacer]

Then no, a fully functioning road cyclist is not getting dropped because he does not have enough fat in his body.

Fat is also energy

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Fat is also energy

If you see how top climbers look at the Tour you will know. They are very shredded, Even Remco was like that in 2024 (his best GT showing to date).

 

[Divergence]

Fat is also energy

Being tired is not just running out of energy. There is soreness and other things... That is why I asked how did the OP define tiredness.
In general, the leaner the better.
I know there is a push in recent time to present that being fatter, more muscle mass etc is somehow beneficial for road cycling, but, in reality, when gravity kicks in (and that IS road cycling) we all know who wins.

 

[cafe_rider]

Yea, that success as a junior and initial pro results still as a teenager created a hype within and around him that simply needed further data for verification. Doubtless he has a huge engine. Unfortunately, however, his junior career was magnified and projected upon a hypothetical Merckxian future, before high mountain performance data was really known. He did not race Avenir, no Baby Giro either, to see what signs of mountain goat status might have apperared or not. And then nobody at the time saw a Pogacar, a Vingegaard and now a del Toro, a Seixas on the horizon. In hindsight he should have done one more amateur season with the hardest climbing races on his schedule. It quite possibly would have prepared him and his sponsors better for planning his pro career and its realistic objectives.

This is an excellent point and he really just won every race by "brute strength".

 

[hayneplane]

Yea, that success as a junior and initial pro results still as a teenager created a hype within and around him that simply needed further data for verification. Doubtless he has a huge engine. Unfortunately, however, his junior career was magnified and projected upon a hypothetical Merckxian future, before high mountain performance data was really known. He did not race Avenir, no Baby Giro either, to see what signs of mountain goat status might have apperared or not. And then nobody at the time saw a Pogacar, a Vingegaard and now a del Toro, a Seixas on the horizon. In hindsight he should have done one more amateur season with the hardest climbing races on his schedule. It quite possibly would have prepared him and his sponsors better for planning his pro career and its realistic objectives.

That sounds fine in the abstract until you analyse what the results were in the relevant year of 2019 in the Giro Next Gen and L’Avenir.

Only Einer Rubio (2nd in Giro next gen) of the top 15 finishers in either race has multiple grabs tour top ten GC finishes on their palmares and only Rubio and Van Wilder have gone on to be GC riders from the U23 class of 2019.

Remco would have stomped the field in both races given the level of competition there.