Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Extinction]

I can't understand why he and his entourage think it's ok for him, in this day and age, to show up at a World Tour race with some tough to nasty climbs and think 65 kg is GC competitive weight. He should be 60 kg, or say 61 with something to lose by the Tour.

They should at least try to err on the low side, because the high one clearly has not worked. As has been notes, the way they feed during the races the lower weight should not affect performance, as energy supply is constantly replenished.

 

[Keldergoat]

A question from my ignorant brain: if the weight factor is such a deciding factor, according to many, why did he outperform quite a decent field in Cumbre del Sol, a climb over 9% on average? Does the weight become more crucial the longer the climb takes?

 

[Extinction]

That sounds fine in the abstract until you analyse what the results were in the relevant year of 2019 in the Giro Next Gen and L’Avenir.

Only Einer Rubio (2nd in Giro next gen) of the top 15 finishers in either race has multiple grabs tour top ten GC finishes on their palmares and only Rubio and Van Wilder have gone on to be GC riders from the U23 class of 2019.

Remco would have stomped the field in both races given the level of competition there.

True, but you still have something rather than nothing to go on. Pogacar won Avenir over Thymen Arensman and Gino Mäder. Not something to predict what Tadej went on to become, but indicative of good climbing genes nonetheless.

 

[Salvarani]

That sounds fine in the abstract until you analyse what the results were in the relevant year of 2019 in the Giro Next Gen and L’Avenir.

Only Einer Rubio (2nd in Giro next gen) of the top 15 finishers in either race has multiple grabs tour top ten GC finishes on their palmares and only Rubio and Van Wilder have gone on to be GC riders from the U23 class of 2019.

Remco would have stomped the field in both races given the level of competition there.

But you also have to consider riders like Skjelmose, Tiberi, Carlos Rodriguez, THJ, Lipowitz... just to mention a few similar in age and who rode the U23s... while Remco went straight to the pros.

 

[Extinction]

A question from my ignorant brain: if the weight factor is such a deciding factor, according to many, why did he outperform quite a decent field in Cumbre del Sol, a climb over 9% on average? Does the weight become more crucial the longer the climb takes?

The longer the climb weight becomes increasingly a factor, yes.

 

[Salvarani]

A question from my ignorant brain: if the weight factor is such a deciding factor, according to many, why did he outperform quite a decent field in Cumbre del Sol, a climb over 9% on average? Does the weight become more crucial the longer the climb takes?

The climb wasnt long and he dropped a wattbomb. He has the brute strength and power for a shorter effort, but other things comes into play on longer ones.

 

[Cycling111]

That sounds fine in the abstract until you analyse what the results were in the relevant year of 2019 in the Giro Next Gen and L’Avenir.

Only Einer Rubio (2nd in Giro next gen) of the top 15 finishers in either race has multiple grabs tour top ten GC finishes on their palmares and only Rubio and Van Wilder have gone on to be GC riders from the U23 class of 2019.

Remco would have stomped the field in both races given the level of competition there.

You don't know. Giro next gen usually has tought mountains, and we don't know how he would have donde in those mountains.

Anyway, Rubio was very good climber back then, and for example, Vingegaard finished 40 minutes behind Pogacar in Tour L' Avenir, behind Arensman, Almeida, Vlasov....
McNulty would have been on the podium if he hadn't crashed and the one who has two Tours is Vingegaard, not him.
Back then, U23 riders weren't so professionalized yet, and the Colombians and Ecuatorians arrived very strong at the mountain stages of Avenir and the Giro baby; now, junior riders do altitude training camps like professionals.

 

[AmRacer]

I can't understand why he and his entourage think it's ok for him, in this day and age, to show up at a World Tour race with some tough to nasty climbs and think 65 kg is GC competitive weight. He should be 60 kg, or say 61 with something to lose by the Tour.

They should at least try to err on the low side, because the high one clearly has not worked. As has been notes, the way they feed during the races the lower weight should not affect performance, as energy supply is constantly replenished.

It's unhealthy for him staying at that weight too long. Probably.

 

[Extinction]

The climb wasnt long and he dropped a wattbomb. He has the brute strength and power for a shorter effort, but other things comes into play on longer ones.

Especially when the average grade rises to 12 percent over almost 15 km.

 

[Red Rick]

I believe this would never be an issue in a road race. Also, how do you define being tired?

1. Depleted glycogen stored or other physiology leading to reduced performance compared to optimal conditions
2. The state of Red Rick when he reads that Tiberi lauds Del Toro as being at Pogacar's level.

 

[Tim Cahill]

If you want to be good at a certain type of effort then the best way is to do that effort over and over again. It’s why Pogacar has spent most of the last 3 months riding up and down the Cipressa and Poggio.

 

[Extinction]

It's unhealthy for him staying at that weight too long. Probably.

Sure, health is a necessary concern, but I think they should see how he holds up first before assuming anything.

 

[Red Rick]

They consume ridiculous amount of carbs nowadays so I'm not sure if their fat comsumption is higher than before. I don't think so regarding high intensity MTF but maybe it's the case for earlier phases of races.

As for being more fatty, those marathon world-beaters are still super-thin aren't they? I think they still have enough fat reserves.

Marathon runners are flat track bullies, they only run for 2 hours and they don't actually run in high fat consumption zones.

Once you get to more ultramarathon like stuff athletes aren't so uber skinny anymore.

Also, I read up on the carb intake science and it's not really that great. You don't really preserve much extra glycogen from adding more carbs past a certain point.

 

[AmRacer]

Sure, health is a necessary concern, but I think they should see how he holds up first before assuming anything.

Haven't they tried during the previous seasons? Not RBH but Remco and SQS

 

[Berniece]

I can't understand why he and his entourage think it's ok for him, in this day and age, to show up at a World Tour race with some tough to nasty climbs and think 65 kg is GC competitive weight. He should be 60 kg, or say 61 with something to lose by the Tour.

They should at least try to err on the low side, because the high one clearly has not worked. As has been notes, the way they feed during the races the lower weight should not affect performance, as energy supply is constantly replenished.

Arrogance, thinking it’s February and he should be fine, but a lot of riders are already at a high level coming from altitude

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Marathon runners are flat track bullies, they only run for 2 hours and they don't actually run in high fat consumption zones.

They run 20-30 km daily mostly in fat burning zones. Anyway, we saw how light Remco was in the summer 2024: it resulted in Tour podium and two golds.

 

[James M]

Arrogance, thinking it’s February and he should be fine, but a lot of riders are already at a high level coming from altitude

Who went to altitude? looks like more cope cause i know one who didnt do an altitude camp.

Hes just not good enough. It really isnt hard to admit at this point. Its been 3 years since he won a WT stage race and the lvl has increased since then I know its crazy but it has and to bad Remco hasnt shown hes capable of that so far.

 

[Divergence]

It's unhealthy for him staying at that weight too long. Probably.

It is not unhealthy to be in shape.

 

[Berniece]

Who went to altitude? looks like more cope cause i know one who didnt do an altitude camp.

Hes just not good enough. It really isnt hard to admit at this point. Its been 3 years since he won a WT stage race and the lvl has increased since then I know its crazy but it has and to bad Remco hasnt shown hes capable of that so far.

Tiberi, Seixas for example

 

[AmRacer]

It is not unhealthy to be in shape.

Maybe 60 kg isn't his best shape, but necessary for longer climbs

 

[Red Rick]

They run 20-30 km daily mostly in fat burning zones. Anyway, we saw how light Remco was in the summer 2024: it resulted in Tour podium and two golds.

So do IP merchants. You need the volume work even for threshold efforts. Doesn't mean you need the fat come race day if the race doesn't require any fat consumption.

As for Evenepoel, the question is really why he idolizes Ullrich so much. And nobody ever really seems to bother to answer that.

Maybe they're worried about RED-S syndrome, but I don't know. Being able to maintain a low % of bodyfat easily while maintaining overall training and health is one of the underrated talents in cycling.

 

[Cycling111]

Remco is small but doesn't have the build of a climber. In fact, he looks more like a small sprinter than a climber.

 

[James M]

Tiberi, Seixas for example

I know Lidl, decathlon did with Seixas and Ayuso but they wasnt here. Didnt know Tiberi did? But ok ill take your word for it, admitedely I didnt check the cat killer if he did. Del Toro did no altitude camp.

 

[Sciatic]

It's like he's a prop forward trying to play the scrum half position. Ain't gonna work, unless he plays against teams 2 divisions down.

I assume you mean it “ain’t going to work for him” when it comes to winning GTs?

 

[Tim Cahill]

Tiberi and Del Toro were not at altitude before this, however for those who have been keeping their ears to the streets, Swart has been banging quite recently on about some new 'methods' they've been using, saying they are looking to eliminate the need for altitude camps, read into that what you will.

Jonas Vingegaard did not do altitude before the 2023 Vuelta, nor Pogacar before the 2024 Giro, for what it's worth. Heat training does mimic some of the effects, increasing EPO/Hb Mass/efficiency, but someone cleverer than me will need to say to what extent/whether it can be stacked with altitude.