Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Extinction]

He want's to be at this weight for the Ardennes and it is also good for ITT.

I don't think being lighter for Liege will hurt his chances against Pogacar. Actually it's the opposite. He should I think at the moment stop being concerned with ranking number one TTer and start being competitive on the long cols, if he wants to win the Tour. His TT, besides, will never become bad, but he won't win WT stage races on his TT if he gets shelled out the back on the climbs.

 

[canina82]

the weight obsession on here is utterly ridiculous. He's not fat, he's just not good enough.
Pretty sure his teams and coaches havent been overlooking his weight his entire pro career

According to pcs he weighs less than pogacar already (not sure where everyone gets all these weight numbers from)

He just needs more watts

PCS is not a good source. However, at what point is Remco considered a very powerful rider or just a rider who can be really aero and save a lot of watts compared to others? When it goes uphill, Remco can still produce decent watts but when he needs to maintain for a long period those watts, he falls apart. The ability to sustain a fair amount of watts for a long period is just not there. I believe he is not that powerful like most people think, he is just so much better when we talk about aerodynamics.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I think his supper body could lose some muscle/weight. Maybe he's naturally stocky and not much can be done, but that is were the biggest gain can be made in a healthy way imo.

 

[veganrob]

I don't buy that. If other riders can visibly ride skinnier throughout the year, I don't see why Remco cannot other than he lacks proper guidance. If I'm wrong, which may well be the case, it's time he at least tries to race the season overall much leaner. As the formula that's been used so far, considering his lofty ambitions, surely aint working. At this point, he's really got nothing to lose and tempus fugit.

Or he simply does not want to lose much more weight. Which may be true. In which case he is stuck where he is at.

 

[Berniece]

PCS is not a good source. However, at what point is Remco considered a very powerful rider or just a rider who can be really aero and save a lot of watts compared to others? When it goes uphill, Remco can still produce decent watts but when he needs to maintain for a long period those watts, he falls apart. The ability to sustain a fair amount of watts for a long period is just not there. I believe he is not that powerful like most people think, he is just so much better when we talk about aerodynamics.

That you can say this with a straight face after seeing his fall season is bonkers to me. Sure he was never as good as Pogacar, but after that he was much better than the rest. He showed that at WC, UEC and Lombardia. All long, hard races.

 

[canina82]

That you can say this with a straight face after seeing his fall season is bonkers to me. Sure he was never as good as Pogacar, but after that he was much better than the rest. He showed that at WC, UEC and Lombardia. All long, hard races.

I said long mountains. In any part of my post I questioned his level in hilly classics. There, he is by far the second best and probably the only one who can threat Pogacar in the future.

 

[Berniece]

I said long mountains. In any part of my post I questioned his level in hilly classics. There, he is by far the second best and probably the only one who can threat Pogacar in the future.

Like Plateau de Beille? Or Passo di Ganda?

 

[Salvarani]

That you can say this with a straight face after seeing his fall season is bonkers to me. Sure he was never as good as Pogacar, but after that he was much better than the rest. He showed that at WC, UEC and Lombardia. All long, hard races.

Nobody questions his ability in one-day races.

 

[canina82]

Like Plateau de Beille? Or Passo di Ganda?

Passo di Ganda:
1 - he didn't drop Storer
2 - GdL is a classic. Not a mountain stage done after several mountain stages.
3 - he lost more time to Pogacar than he gained to Storer in GdL

Why are you giving PdB as an example and you ignore every single time he imploded in long and hard mountains? Are you telling me Remco can do it? Yes, of course! He can climb with the very best sometimes but consistently? No, he can't.
But time will tell this season about his climbing ability. In one month we will see where he is after an altitude training camp and probably 2 less kilos.

 

[Cycling111]

Apparently I was wrong about Tiberi, really thought I read that. My bad.

Del Toro did prepare extensively for UAE Tour, not that all of it matters, Evenepoel just wasn’t good enough.

Almeida hasn't done any high-altitude training, and on the climbs in Algarve he's been at a similar level to his performance in other races.
Remco was in better shape than Almeida; his problem is climbing.

 

[Berniece]

Why are you giving PdB as an example and you ignore every single time he imploded in long and hard mountains? Are you telling me Remco can do it? Yes, of course! He can climb with the very best sometimes but consistently? No, he can't.
But time will tell this season about his climbing ability. In one month we will see where he is after an altitude training camp and probably 2 less kilos.

Because at TDF 2024 he showed he could do it consistently... Same at Vuelta 2022. Only issue he had was after his crash.

 

[Berniece]

Almeida hasn't done any high-altitude training, and on the climbs in Algarve he's been at a similar level to his performance in other races.
Remco was in better shape than Almeida; his problem is climbing.

Remco was at 85% at Mallorca/Valencia according to himself. We'll see at Catalunya if Evenepoel still has issues with climbing. More than enough multi-mountain stages there.

 

[AmRacer]

Because at TDF 2024 he showed he could do it consistently... Same at Vuelta 2022. Only issue he had was after his crash.

Consistently means more then one time e.g. TDF 2024.

 

[Divergence]

Actually Pogacar said that exactly 2 yrs ago after RvV when asked whether he would do Roubaixin the future. He said he’d have to put on some more weight first. Of course he could have been joking around, but he said it.
Re: the 2nd bolded statement, it’s fruitless to discuss that outside of the clinic.

PR is an interesting race to watch, even though it is as flat as a pancake. In that sense it is pretty unique in the calendar. And if doing well in PR is a priority, then, by all means, go to the gym and get jacked up. Mind you, being as lean as possible is still an advantage, but maybe adding muscles on the eyelids would make some difference. It is a race where weight makes very little difference.

 

[Ulle97]

Did the 14 riders who finished ahead of Evenepoel on Jebel Hafeet all have an altitude camp done?

If all the riders do an altitude camp, does Remco get better return from this training?? That's what many seem to imply.

Not having an altitude camp seems to crop up as a reason for his poor performance.

 

[Extinction]

Or he simply does not want to lose much more weight. Which may be true. In which case he is stuck where he is at.

It's his choice, but if he wants to challenge Pogacar, Vingegaard, Ayuso and now del Toro, Seixas not very smart.

 

[Berniece]

Did the 14 riders who finished ahead of Evenepoel on Jebel Hafeet all have an altitude camp done?

If all the riders do an altitude camp, does Remco get better return from this training?? That's what many seem to imply.

Not having an altitude camp seems to crop up as a reason for his poor performance.

Do those 14 normally always ride better on a climb than Evenepoel? Something clearly is wrong, and it's not that Evenepoel is suddenly a worse climber than those 14 riders... Some of them might be better, not all of them.

 

[Ulle97]

Do those 14 normally always ride better on a climb than Evenepoel? Something clearly is wrong, and it's not that Evenepoel is suddenly a worse climber than those 14 riders... Some of them might be better, not all of them.

You've addressed my question with a question, rather than answering it? I would say that a good few of those riders have finished ahead of him before on uphill rides. And if it hasn't been those specific riders finishing ahead of him, there are numerous case of similar class riders finishing ahead of him on climbs. Riders who would be classed as 2nd or 3rd tier level climbers have regularly finished ahead of him.


That is why I have asked the simple question, have all those riders done altitude camps?? This is the excuse that many fanboys give for Remco's failure.

The fanboys also claim that Remco didn't have this race as a big target for his season. Did Mathys Rondel or Nordhagen have this race locked in as a major season goal??

 

[Berniece]

You've addressed my question with a question, rather than answering it? I would say that a good few of those riders have finished ahead of him before on uphill rides. And if it hasn't been those specific riders finishing ahead of him, there are numerous case of similar class riders finishing ahead of him on climbs. Riders who would be classed as 2nd or 3rd tier level climbers have regularly finished ahead of him.


That is why I have asked the simple question, have all those riders done altitude camps?? This is the excuse that many fanboys give for Remco's failure.

The fanboys also claim that Remco didn't have this race as a big target for his season. Did Mathys Rondel or Nordhagen have this race locked in as a major season goal??

If you want to say that Evenepoel is by default in normal circumstances a worse climber than those 14, go ahead. Wonder why SOQ ever had Van Wilder as a domestique for Evenepoel instead of the other way around

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Nobody questions his ability in one-day races.

Right. The real question for me is whether he would have been the second-best rider in the spring with that same form. It was his best form of the season, whereas other riders would normally have already peaked (twice) by then.

 

[peterfin]

You've addressed my question with a question, rather than answering it? I would say that a good few of those riders have finished ahead of him before on uphill rides. And if it hasn't been those specific riders finishing ahead of him, there are numerous case of similar class riders finishing ahead of him on climbs. Riders who would be classed as 2nd or 3rd tier level climbers have regularly finished ahead of him.


That is why I have asked the simple question, have all those riders done altitude camps?? This is the excuse that many fanboys give for Remco's failure.

The fanboys also claim that Remco didn't have this race as a big target for his season. Did Mathys Rondel or Nordhagen have this race locked in as a major season goal??

Using the word 'fanboy' is denigrating. Obviously you will find fans in Remco's thread but there is no reason to belittle them to make your point.

Whoever makes a claim about Remco being a minor rider than the 14 ahead of him better checks the climber ranking thread. It's easy to dismiss him as not being a climber just because he is not as consistent as others or because he is framed as a better TT/classics rider than a climber.

The repeated use of the word 'excuse' for anything that can explain his recent climb performance is also annoying. If there is no reason at all because that is just his physical limit then we should explain why he was better in the past. The real reason may simply be that he is not that sharp at all, not good enough relative to the climb training level of the others. Nevertheless that's a reason and not an excuse. An excuse would be if he (or we) really believes it was just the missing AC in his room for example.

 

[AmRacer]

Using the word 'fanboy' is denigrating. Obviously you will find fans in Remco's thread but there is no reason to belittle them to make your point.

Whoever makes a claim about Remco being a minor rider than the 14 ahead of him better checks the climber ranking thread. It's easy to dismiss him as not being a climber just because he is not as consistent as others or because he is framed as a better TT/classics rider than a climber.

The repeated use of the word 'excuse' for anything that can explain his recent climb performance is also annoying. If there is no reason at all because that is just his physical limit then we should explain why he was better in the past. The real reason may simply be that he is not that sharp at all, not good enough relative to the climb training level of the others. Nevertheless that's a reason and not an excuse. An excuse would be if he (or we) really believes it was just the missing AC in his room for example.

The question is, 'Could he have done better?'

 

[Ulle97]

If you want to say that Evenepoel is by default in normal circumstances a worse climber than those 14, go ahead. Wonder why SOQ ever had Van Wilder as a domestique for Evenepoel instead of

Using the word 'fanboy' is denigrating. Obviously you will find fans in Remco's thread but there is no reason to belittle them to make your point.

Whoever makes a claim about Remco being a minor rider than the 14 ahead of him better checks the climber ranking thread. It's easy to dismiss him as not being a climber just because he is not as consistent as others or because he is framed as a better TT/classics rider than a climber.

The repeated use of the word 'excuse' for anything that can explain his recent climb performance is also annoying. If there is no reason at all because that is just his physical limit then we should explain why he was better in the past. The real reason may simply be that he is not that sharp at all, not good enough relative to the climb training level of the others. Nevertheless that's a reason and not an excuse. An excuse would be if he (or we) really believes it was just the missing AC in his room for example.

Apologies if the word fanboy hurts you or others. I won't use that word again.

I myself am a Remco fan. I follow his races with intrigue and always hope he does well.

My initial question relates to the 'reason' (not excuse) of Remco underperforming because of a lack of altitude training and not having the UAE Tour as a big season goal.

Did Nordhagen, Munton, Svestad-Bardseng and Rondel all have altitude training done??? Did they pour their total energy into this Tour as a season goal? These are 2nd and 3rd Tier climbers ahead of Remco. There are numerous examples of riders of this calibre outperforming Remco on climbs.

If we deem Remco as a man with a dream to surpass Pog and Vingo in the Tour, do you think it augers well that he can't beat these type of guys??? There is no way that Ving or Pog would lose with such frequency to these riders.

@Berniece ..... look, if we take Remco's absolute best performances, he is ahead of those riders. No question!! However, his frequency of underperforming on climbs is now more regular than his tendency to live up to his ability when climbing. That's the worry. We don't know what Remco will show up.

He apparently needs an altitude camp now according to some fans to beat these 2nd and 3rd Tier climbers.

 

[Berniece]

@Berniece ..... look, if we take Remco's absolute best performances, he is ahead of those riders. No question!! However, his frequency of underperforming on climbs is now more regular than his tendency to live up to his ability when climbing. That's the worry. We don't know what Remco will show up.

He apparently needs an altitude camp now according to some fans to beat these 2nd and 3rd Tier climbers.

I think he needs to train differently for such climbs. His focus was completely on short intense efforts and increasing his threshold for such efforts. Which resulted in dropping everyone in Mallorca and Valencia. That combined with lower weight. I expect much more at Catalunya from him.

Then again if he would win LBL, who cares about UAE Tour

 

[jotafap]

I think he needs to train differently for such climbs. His focus was completely on short intense efforts and increasing his threshold for such efforts. Which resulted in dropping everyone in Mallorca and Valencia. That combined with lower weight. I expect much more at Catalunya from him.

Then again if he would win LBL, who cares about UAE Tour

Not saying he hasn’t improved in those short intense efforts, but what he did in Mallorca and Valencia shouldn’t be taken as evidence that he has. A fit Remco should always be able to drop those guys on those race profiles, not just this year.

The first real test he failed, simple as that. Let’s move on to the next one. Hopefully, he’ll do better, because something clearly went very wrong at UAE, even though imo he is not among the very best on those climbs.