Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Cycling111]

Apparently I was wrong about Tiberi, really thought I read that. My bad.

Del Toro did prepare extensively for UAE Tour, not that all of it matters, Evenepoel just wasn’t good enough.

Almeida hasn't done any high-altitude training, and on the climbs in Algarve he's been at a similar level to his performance in other races.
Remco was in better shape than Almeida; his problem is climbing.

 

[Berniece]

Why are you giving PdB as an example and you ignore every single time he imploded in long and hard mountains? Are you telling me Remco can do it? Yes, of course! He can climb with the very best sometimes but consistently? No, he can't.
But time will tell this season about his climbing ability. In one month we will see where he is after an altitude training camp and probably 2 less kilos.

Because at TDF 2024 he showed he could do it consistently... Same at Vuelta 2022. Only issue he had was after his crash.

 

[Berniece]

Almeida hasn't done any high-altitude training, and on the climbs in Algarve he's been at a similar level to his performance in other races.
Remco was in better shape than Almeida; his problem is climbing.

Remco was at 85% at Mallorca/Valencia according to himself. We'll see at Catalunya if Evenepoel still has issues with climbing. More than enough multi-mountain stages there.

 

[AmRacer]

Because at TDF 2024 he showed he could do it consistently... Same at Vuelta 2022. Only issue he had was after his crash.

Consistently means more then one time e.g. TDF 2024.

 

[Divergence]

Actually Pogacar said that exactly 2 yrs ago after RvV when asked whether he would do Roubaixin the future. He said he’d have to put on some more weight first. Of course he could have been joking around, but he said it.
Re: the 2nd bolded statement, it’s fruitless to discuss that outside of the clinic.

PR is an interesting race to watch, even though it is as flat as a pancake. In that sense it is pretty unique in the calendar. And if doing well in PR is a priority, then, by all means, go to the gym and get jacked up. Mind you, being as lean as possible is still an advantage, but maybe adding muscles on the eyelids would make some difference. It is a race where weight makes very little difference.

 

[Ulle97]

Did the 14 riders who finished ahead of Evenepoel on Jebel Hafeet all have an altitude camp done?

If all the riders do an altitude camp, does Remco get better return from this training?? That's what many seem to imply.

Not having an altitude camp seems to crop up as a reason for his poor performance.

 

[Extinction]

Or he simply does not want to lose much more weight. Which may be true. In which case he is stuck where he is at.

It's his choice, but if he wants to challenge Pogacar, Vingegaard, Ayuso and now del Toro, Seixas not very smart.

 

[Berniece]

Did the 14 riders who finished ahead of Evenepoel on Jebel Hafeet all have an altitude camp done?

If all the riders do an altitude camp, does Remco get better return from this training?? That's what many seem to imply.

Not having an altitude camp seems to crop up as a reason for his poor performance.

Do those 14 normally always ride better on a climb than Evenepoel? Something clearly is wrong, and it's not that Evenepoel is suddenly a worse climber than those 14 riders... Some of them might be better, not all of them.

 

[Ulle97]

Do those 14 normally always ride better on a climb than Evenepoel? Something clearly is wrong, and it's not that Evenepoel is suddenly a worse climber than those 14 riders... Some of them might be better, not all of them.

You've addressed my question with a question, rather than answering it? I would say that a good few of those riders have finished ahead of him before on uphill rides. And if it hasn't been those specific riders finishing ahead of him, there are numerous case of similar class riders finishing ahead of him on climbs. Riders who would be classed as 2nd or 3rd tier level climbers have regularly finished ahead of him.


That is why I have asked the simple question, have all those riders done altitude camps?? This is the excuse that many fanboys give for Remco's failure.

The fanboys also claim that Remco didn't have this race as a big target for his season. Did Mathys Rondel or Nordhagen have this race locked in as a major season goal??

 

[Berniece]

You've addressed my question with a question, rather than answering it? I would say that a good few of those riders have finished ahead of him before on uphill rides. And if it hasn't been those specific riders finishing ahead of him, there are numerous case of similar class riders finishing ahead of him on climbs. Riders who would be classed as 2nd or 3rd tier level climbers have regularly finished ahead of him.


That is why I have asked the simple question, have all those riders done altitude camps?? This is the excuse that many fanboys give for Remco's failure.

The fanboys also claim that Remco didn't have this race as a big target for his season. Did Mathys Rondel or Nordhagen have this race locked in as a major season goal??

If you want to say that Evenepoel is by default in normal circumstances a worse climber than those 14, go ahead. Wonder why SOQ ever had Van Wilder as a domestique for Evenepoel instead of the other way around

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Nobody questions his ability in one-day races.

Right. The real question for me is whether he would have been the second-best rider in the spring with that same form. It was his best form of the season, whereas other riders would normally have already peaked (twice) by then.

 

[peterfin]

You've addressed my question with a question, rather than answering it? I would say that a good few of those riders have finished ahead of him before on uphill rides. And if it hasn't been those specific riders finishing ahead of him, there are numerous case of similar class riders finishing ahead of him on climbs. Riders who would be classed as 2nd or 3rd tier level climbers have regularly finished ahead of him.


That is why I have asked the simple question, have all those riders done altitude camps?? This is the excuse that many fanboys give for Remco's failure.

The fanboys also claim that Remco didn't have this race as a big target for his season. Did Mathys Rondel or Nordhagen have this race locked in as a major season goal??

Using the word 'fanboy' is denigrating. Obviously you will find fans in Remco's thread but there is no reason to belittle them to make your point.

Whoever makes a claim about Remco being a minor rider than the 14 ahead of him better checks the climber ranking thread. It's easy to dismiss him as not being a climber just because he is not as consistent as others or because he is framed as a better TT/classics rider than a climber.

The repeated use of the word 'excuse' for anything that can explain his recent climb performance is also annoying. If there is no reason at all because that is just his physical limit then we should explain why he was better in the past. The real reason may simply be that he is not that sharp at all, not good enough relative to the climb training level of the others. Nevertheless that's a reason and not an excuse. An excuse would be if he (or we) really believes it was just the missing AC in his room for example.

 

[AmRacer]

Using the word 'fanboy' is denigrating. Obviously you will find fans in Remco's thread but there is no reason to belittle them to make your point.

Whoever makes a claim about Remco being a minor rider than the 14 ahead of him better checks the climber ranking thread. It's easy to dismiss him as not being a climber just because he is not as consistent as others or because he is framed as a better TT/classics rider than a climber.

The repeated use of the word 'excuse' for anything that can explain his recent climb performance is also annoying. If there is no reason at all because that is just his physical limit then we should explain why he was better in the past. The real reason may simply be that he is not that sharp at all, not good enough relative to the climb training level of the others. Nevertheless that's a reason and not an excuse. An excuse would be if he (or we) really believes it was just the missing AC in his room for example.

The question is, 'Could he have done better?'

 

[Ulle97]

If you want to say that Evenepoel is by default in normal circumstances a worse climber than those 14, go ahead. Wonder why SOQ ever had Van Wilder as a domestique for Evenepoel instead of

Using the word 'fanboy' is denigrating. Obviously you will find fans in Remco's thread but there is no reason to belittle them to make your point.

Whoever makes a claim about Remco being a minor rider than the 14 ahead of him better checks the climber ranking thread. It's easy to dismiss him as not being a climber just because he is not as consistent as others or because he is framed as a better TT/classics rider than a climber.

The repeated use of the word 'excuse' for anything that can explain his recent climb performance is also annoying. If there is no reason at all because that is just his physical limit then we should explain why he was better in the past. The real reason may simply be that he is not that sharp at all, not good enough relative to the climb training level of the others. Nevertheless that's a reason and not an excuse. An excuse would be if he (or we) really believes it was just the missing AC in his room for example.

Apologies if the word fanboy hurts you or others. I won't use that word again.

I myself am a Remco fan. I follow his races with intrigue and always hope he does well.

My initial question relates to the 'reason' (not excuse) of Remco underperforming because of a lack of altitude training and not having the UAE Tour as a big season goal.

Did Nordhagen, Munton, Svestad-Bardseng and Rondel all have altitude training done??? Did they pour their total energy into this Tour as a season goal? These are 2nd and 3rd Tier climbers ahead of Remco. There are numerous examples of riders of this calibre outperforming Remco on climbs.

If we deem Remco as a man with a dream to surpass Pog and Vingo in the Tour, do you think it augers well that he can't beat these type of guys??? There is no way that Ving or Pog would lose with such frequency to these riders.

@Berniece ..... look, if we take Remco's absolute best performances, he is ahead of those riders. No question!! However, his frequency of underperforming on climbs is now more regular than his tendency to live up to his ability when climbing. That's the worry. We don't know what Remco will show up.

He apparently needs an altitude camp now according to some fans to beat these 2nd and 3rd Tier climbers.

 

[Berniece]

@Berniece ..... look, if we take Remco's absolute best performances, he is ahead of those riders. No question!! However, his frequency of underperforming on climbs is now more regular than his tendency to live up to his ability when climbing. That's the worry. We don't know what Remco will show up.

He apparently needs an altitude camp now according to some fans to beat these 2nd and 3rd Tier climbers.

I think he needs to train differently for such climbs. His focus was completely on short intense efforts and increasing his threshold for such efforts. Which resulted in dropping everyone in Mallorca and Valencia. That combined with lower weight. I expect much more at Catalunya from him.

Then again if he would win LBL, who cares about UAE Tour

 

[jotafap]

I think he needs to train differently for such climbs. His focus was completely on short intense efforts and increasing his threshold for such efforts. Which resulted in dropping everyone in Mallorca and Valencia. That combined with lower weight. I expect much more at Catalunya from him.

Then again if he would win LBL, who cares about UAE Tour

Not saying he hasn’t improved in those short intense efforts, but what he did in Mallorca and Valencia shouldn’t be taken as evidence that he has. A fit Remco should always be able to drop those guys on those race profiles, not just this year.

The first real test he failed, simple as that. Let’s move on to the next one. Hopefully, he’ll do better, because something clearly went very wrong at UAE, even though imo he is not among the very best on those climbs.

 

[Red Rick]

Evenepoel being bad at short, punchy climbs is one of those weird things that was even wrong at the beginning of his career and now it's still somehow there.

 

[Sciatic]

PR is an interesting race to watch, even though it is as flat as a pancake. In that sense it is pretty unique in the calendar. And if doing well in PR is a priority, then, by all means, go to the gym and get jacked up. Mind you, being as lean as possible is still an advantage, but maybe adding muscles on the eyelids would make some difference. It is a race where weight makes very little difference.

I think you could be right about that in today’s cycling. I was being a bit pedantic about your statement regarding never hearing a rider saying they want to weigh more.

ed. I went back to make sure of the Pogacar quote: "To win Roubaix, I also have to gain some kilos. It’s going to be difficult. At the moment I think I am still too light.” Found here: https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...ar-some-day-but-san-remo-vuelta-are-up-first/

 

[11-34]

Maybe Remco does secretly Ramadan and its just a fueling issue, that clears up when its over.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I would be surprised if he's practising the Ramadan. He was drinking during the race for certain.

His allergies will pick up in early summer though during dauphiné. Nothing to be done about that probably.

 

[Berniece]

Not saying he hasn’t improved in those short intense efforts, but what he did in Mallorca and Valencia shouldn’t be taken as evidence that he has. A fit Remco should always be able to drop those guys on those race profiles, not just this year.

Sure, but it's different at the start of the season of course. But he should indeed always drop them, just like he could at LBL 2022-2023 when Pogacar wasn't there.

 

[AlpRaid]

I'm a Remco fan, but I have to say I'm done with the excuses. The man is a limited climber at best.

His best GT performance left him more than 9mins behind Pogacar in TDF 24.

The amount of times we hit the proper climbs and we see him blowing up is unfair for him to endure. He is an outstanding TTer, one-day racer and brilliant at long range attacks on hilly terrain.

The man is NOT a climber. He is sacrificing results and potential victories in other races by chasing a dream of winning the Tour de France. He has ZERO chance of doing that.

Smoked in the UAE climbs, Meltdown in the Tour last year, Meltdown in the Vuelta in 23, didn't finish the Giro in 21 or 23, falls away in TDS stages once the road goes up.

Yet I hear all this tripe that he needs altitude camps, he needs to lose weight, he's not dialled in, he has no base, the AC was smashed. The man is killing himself trying to be someone he's not.

Excellent post.

This is exactly where I stand right now.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Perhaps but Remco dreams of GTs

 

[ChasingPotatoes]

I would like to see him race in the TdF, like he raced after his breakdown in the Vuelta 2023: go for the break, create chaos, try to rip the peloton apart, make it a mano-a-mano early in the race and early in the stages. The full first week of the Tour is perfect for that, and this type of racing is what Remco is best at. He isn't best at a pure W/kg vs. Tadej and Jonas. He is very talented and he can climb very, very well, but he isn't a natural born climber and shouldn't follow the procession up the mountains in the Tour and see Pog riding away after being launched by the UAE train.

ps: I don't get the fan / no fan / hate for Remco. He's one of the few riders that is super exciting to watch. Don't get me wrong, but e.g. Pog isn't exciting to watch (anymore) for the last 2 years, for example, except when he can't make the difference like in San Remo.

 

[Divergence]

I would like to see him race in the TdF, like he raced after his breakdown in the Vuelta 2023: go for the break, create chaos, try to rip the peloton apart, make it a mano-a-mano early in the race and early in the stages. The full first week of the Tour is perfect for that, and this type of racing is what Remco is best at. He isn't best at a pure W/kg vs. Tadej and Jonas. He is very talented and he can climb very, very well, but he isn't a natural born climber and shouldn't follow the procession up the mountains in the Tour and see Pog riding away after being launched by the UAE train.

ps: I don't get the fan / no fan / hate for Remco. He's one of the few riders that is super exciting to watch. Don't get me wrong, but e.g. Pog isn't exciting to watch (anymore) for the last 2 years, for example, except when he can't make the difference like in San Remo.

The problem is that he is able to do that only if he loses a lot of time and is no longer relevant in the race.