Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Berniece]

Remco aside, I think only Vans and Ganna could be better. After a hard race with lots of vertical meters obviously it gets better for Pog.

Tarling too

 

[ChasingPotatoes]

I haven't followed the last couple of pages very closely, but with regards to Remco not riding Fleche:
pro skipping Fleche:
1. stick to the plan;
2. can't win from a group of riders arriving at mur de Huy;
3. increased risk of either crashing, more fatigue or ego hurt if lost.

con skipping Fleche:
1. everybody has a plan until they get punched by Pog on Redoute;
2. all the more reason to try and attack before mur de Huy;
3. crashing, fatigue and ego hurt are weak excuses.

In the end, I feel Remco should have started, with the aim of lighting up the race from the 2nde time Mur de Huy or somewhere in between, with no pressure at all to win, but with the knowledge that he has won Liege twice and Fleche not once, so all the more reason to at least try out the race and try to ride it according to his strengths.

I know Liege is a monument and challenging Pog is probably also a test to see how far Remco is still below Pog, in relation to any ambitions in the TdF, but from what I saw Remco isn't super lean and thus not up to the challenge on Sunday. So better ride Fleche.

 

[red_flanders]

I haven't followed the last couple of pages very closely, but with regards to Remco not riding Fleche:
pro skipping Fleche:
1. stick to the plan;
2. can't win from a group of riders arriving at mur de Huy;
3. increased risk of either crashing, more fatigue or ego hurt if lost.

All makes sense except the ego part, which seems silly. This race isn't really one he can win with his capabilities, why would his ego be bruised? Odd.

con skipping Fleche:
1. everybody has a plan until they get punched by Pog on Redoute;
2. all the more reason to try and attack before mur de Huy;
3. crashing, fatigue and ego hurt are weak excuses.

Is he citing "crashing, fatigue, or ego hurt"? If not, they're not "excuses". They're just speculation by fans. As far as I've heard, the team has cited "recovery", which makes sense, particularly since FW was never on his schedule.

In the end, I feel Remco should have started, with the aim of lighting up the race from the 2nde time Mur de Huy or somewhere in between, with no pressure at all to win, but with the knowledge that he has won Liege twice and Fleche not once, so all the more reason to at least try out the race and try to ride it according to his strengths.

This has a near zero chance of success in this race.

I know Liege is a monument and challenging Pog is probably also a test to see how far Remco is still below Pog, in relation to any ambitions in the TdF, but from what I saw Remco isn't super lean and thus not up to the challenge on Sunday. So better ride Fleche.

I don't think he's going to win LBL either, but that seems a very, deeply, weird reason to not ride a race he never planned to ride. We all want the top riders competing in the best races in optimal form, chomping at the bit to compete, right? Or do we want riders who have thrown in the towel before the race starts?

 

[canina82]

This forum has the level people argue what he said with exaples, and that is something that I apreciate a lot.

I argued as well why i dont agree:

I didnt watched Emilia that year, I will try, but Emilia is a race more than climbers than Lieje, there is not flat ta the end and the climb is step..if you see the palmares usually are pure climbers winning there. I race I love.
2025 I said in previous post Remco wanst at his weight and level after come back to the injury, i mean always to have Remo and Pogacar at his best level.

2024 Td F stage 2 Remo finished better than Pogacar, so you give me the reason. And that day Remco a

Catched alone, with Carapaz at his wheel, at Pogacar and Vingegaard, who were collaborating, That was an impresive demostration that make me think this sunday Remco can be at least at Pogacar level. And that was already the super climber Pogacar after to have his spanih I (as me) trainer from Sevilla, who was so comentated is this forum.

Tour de France 2024 Stage 2 results

Tour de France 2024 Stage 2 from Cesenatico to Bologna was won by Kévin Vauquelin before Jonas Abrahamsen and Quentin Pacher. Tadej PogaÄar was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

2024 Tdf stage 4. Are you kidding me?? that was a mountain stage with Galibier, do you pretend to compare that with Liege?? And Remco was 2nd

So, what we will see this year at Liege is new. You can consider Pogacar is better, and it is logical, but not becouse we watched this situation before.

I said stage 4 in the 2025 TdF.

 

[Taxus4a]

I said stage 4 in the 2025 TdF.

Remco last year was just at the end of the year at his level,. His Tour was to forget, He tried and he did quite ok at the begining becouse he is very good at those stages, but he couldnt make the difference. that is not his level, he had to leave at Pyrinees.
At the end he was..at Rwanda, hard circuit, but not bad a route for him, H e had a problem with the saddle and his mind diconect...later he imagine another new problem who was only at his mind. But the fdors problem afected him. He coudl have been there with Pogacar IMO.
European and Lombardia (this year route), better climbs for Poggi, in that routes, almost a mountain stage, Remco now is suoper againt everybody except Pogacar, who was 1 or 2 points above him. Liege has even more elevation gain, but in lot of Km and no long climbs.

 

[Taxus4a]

To sum up, if Remo is now as last year Liege, Dauphine, le Tour, he has nothing to do with pogacar and difficult top 5. If Remo is as in Lombardie or Europeans, and I think he is after to watch him ar flan ders and Amstel, he can beat the very possible GOAT.

 

[ChasingPotatoes]

All makes sense except the ego part, which seems silly. This race isn't really one he can win with his capabilities, why would his ego be bruised? Odd.

Is he citing "crashing, fatigue, or ego hurt"? If not, they're not "excuses". They're just speculation by fans. As far as I've heard, the team has cited "recovery", which makes sense, particularly since FW was never on his schedule.

This has a near zero chance of success in this race.

I don't think he's going to win LBL either, but that seems a very, deeply, weird reason to not ride a race he never planned to ride. We all want the top riders competing in the best races in optimal form, chomping at the bit to compete, right? Or do we want riders who have thrown in the towel before the race starts?

I feel you completely misunderstood.
It was 100% my own opinion, nothing to do with citations. I'm only guessing / opinionating what I see as pros and cons of racing Huy, as a bystander.

My take is that there are very few good reasons not to ride Fleche, and there are many more good reasons to ride it, and that's exactly what I said.

To say it again, more clearly:
Remco hasn't won Fleche and as I see it, trying to win Fleche wouldn't harm his chances in Liege, and if he wins it, it will be another race off the list while Liege would be a 3rd.

A 3rd Liege (vs. Pog) would of course be fantastic but I don't buy the fatigue argument: we have seen Remco gets better with more racing, something he said himself. I don't see good reasons not to race and to simply train in the same area.

And by trying to win Fleche, he won't loose anything:
there is general consensus he can't win it from the bunch and chances he wins it from further away aren't great. But if there is one year (without a stacked field) he should give it a try without being ashamed if it doesn't work (trying from far), it's probably this year. And if it works, it's such a nice bonus and takes even more pressure off Sunday. Because even if he hasn't got a lot of chance winning Fleche, I reckon he has even less chance on Sunday vs. Pog.

 

[red_flanders]

I feel you completely misunderstood.
It was 100% my own opinion, nothing to do with citations. I'm only guessing / opinionating what I see as pros and cons of racing Huy, as a bystander.

My take is that there are very few good reasons not to ride Fleche, and there are many more good reasons to ride it, and that's exactly what I said.

To say it again, more clearly:
Remco hasn't won Fleche and as I see it, trying to win Fleche wouldn't harm his chances in Liege, and if he wins it, it will be another race off the list while Liege would be a 3rd.

A 3rd Liege (vs. Pog) would ofcourse be fantastic but I don't buy the fatigue argument: we have seen Remco gets better with more racing, something he said himself. I don't see good reasons not to race and to simply train in the same area.

And by trying to win Fleche, he won't loose anything:
there is general consensus he can't win it from the bunch and chances he wins it from further away aren't great. But if there is one year (without a stacked field) he should give it a try without being ashamed if it doesn't work, it's probably this year. And if it works, it's such a nice bonus and takes even more pressure off Sunday. Because even if he hasn't got a lot of chance winning Fleche, I reckon he has even less chance on Sunday vs. Pog.

I assumed you were giving your opinions, but the way it was all phrased resulted in my comments. I mildly disagree about him racing it or not, but I have no big issue with that. But to frame it as making "excuses" and making it about "ego" seems to me, unfair and more importantly, unfounded criticism.

The race doesn't suit him and it was never on his schedule. Don't get why all the churn. RDS seems in full effect on this topic.

 

[ChasingPotatoes]

But to frame it as making "excuses" and making it about "ego" seems to me, unfair and more importantly, unfounded criticism.

I'm not trying to frame it, just trying to imagine the (in my view) very few excuses I can think about that some teams would use with their top riders to not have them starting in some races, which is e.g. to not hurt their rider's confidence when they risk getting beaten. Remco is probably mentally strong enough to not care about that (he has been beaten before, multiple times, by so-called lesser competitors, especially in short stage races), but I'm just thinking out loud what COULD be a reason for the team not having him at the start. Fatigue just seems like a weak reason, but that's my opinion.

The race doesn't suit him but on the other hand, if you can win LBL and are 3rd in Flanders (a race many said doesn't suit him), and got 9th last year with a far-from-ideal prep, you should at least try to ride it either in the conventional way or like I said, try from far out. He only has like 5 prime years to try and win this race, so why not. He's not having an overly busy racing schedule either.

 

[red_flanders]

I'm not trying to frame it, just trying to imagine the (in my view) very few excuses I can think about that some teams would use with their top riders to not have them starting in some races, which is e.g. to not hurt their rider's confidence when they risk getting beaten. Remco is probably mentally strong enough to not care about that (he has been beaten before, multiple times, by so-called lesser competitors, especially in short stage races), but I'm just thinking out loud what COULD be a reason for the team not having him at the start. Fatigue just seems like a weak reason, but that's my opinion.

The race doesn't suit him but on the other hand, if you can win LBL and are 3rd in Flanders (a race many said doesn't suit him), and got 9th last year with a far-from-ideal prep, you should at least try to ride it either in the conventional way or like I said, try from far out. He only has like 5 prime years to try and win this race, so why not. He's not having an overly busy racing schedule either.

I don't agree that Flanders doesn't suit him. His goals were Amstel and LBL this year. FW is a distraction, and not that big a race.

Why he doesn't ride MSR, I don't know, on the other hand. I don't think he's particularly suited for that either, but he has some chance, and it's a massively important race vs FW.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

But I think I put Remco as favourite as Pogacar becouse I consider Remco as good as Pogacar in those climbs like the one of 1,3 km at 7,8. Just la Roche is maybe better for Pogacar, but it is just 1,3 km.

Of course if Pogacar is better at any small climb Remco has nothing to do. Remco started cycling flying at 19 better than most of pro cyclist on those climbs. His problem is high mountain stages. at this climbs he is as extraterrestrial than Poggi, and even at medium mountain stages he is really good as he showed this year at Mallorca and most of his career.

Remco is worlds top3 on shorter climbs but I dont recall him being any threat to Pogacar during last two WC campaigns.

 

[houtdffan]

Remco is worlds top3 on shorter climbs but I dont recall him being any threat to Pogacar during last two WC campaigns.

He was close to catching Pog on the final lap of 2024. Close enough that the cars were removed from the gap.

He just started too far back due to him flapping his wings. The only thing missing was Koko B. Ware's pet parakeet

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He was close to catching Pog on the final lap of 2024. Close enough that the cars were removed from the gap.

He just started too far back due to him flapping his wings. The only thing missing was Koko B. Ware's pet parakeet

WC 2024 was a suicide attack by Pog. The fact that none caught him on that profile (after so many km solo and whole teams burned on chasing) only proves how strong he was. Wc 2025 was no contest (but the course was more difficult).

 

[red_flanders]

RE: the comments on him racing FW and trying to win from a long way out...that's not just going to affect him for LBL, but the entire team. To make such a longshot tactic even hope to work, they'd have to pull incredibly hard for a good long while to thin out the peloton.

Sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

 

[jotafap]

RE: the comments on him racing FW and trying to win from a long way out...that's not just going to affect him for LBL, but the entire team. To make such a longshot tactic even hope to work, they'd have to pull incredibly hard for a good long while to thin out the peloton.

Sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

True, and the odds of that working would be almost zero anyway. He wouldn’t stand much of a chance in a direct duel on the final climb either. I understand his decision as well.

 

[Red Rick]

Remco is worlds top3 on shorter climbs

As shown by him attacking on the Montjuic with 60 people being on his wheel?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

As shown by him attacking on the Montjuic with 60 people being on his wheel?

By shorter I mean 1-3 km long climbs with large avg gradient. I didnt mean as small climbs as Montjuic. I meant Liege or Valenciana types.

 

[Red Rick]

By shorter I mean 1-3 km long climbs with large avg gradient. I didnt mean as small climbs as Montjuic. I meant Liege or Valenciana types.

Put him in Basque Country or Tirreno and see what happens.

La Redoute is heavily influenced already by the long race and then recovery on a rolling false flat downhill. That's why he always overperforms his climbing level in one day races.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Put him in Basque Country or Tirreno and see what happens.

La Redoute is heavily influenced already by the long race and then recovery on a rolling false flat downhill. That's why he always overperforms his climbing level in one day races.

Didnt he crush one Valenciana stage climb before exploding in UAE? I do believe his 5 minute uphill efforts are relatively better than 20 minutes. Not Pogacar or Vingegaards level (in case of the latter not in stage racing settings).

 

[BubbaChuck]

Will he pull with Paul.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I gave you facts. You feel free to agree or not.
Accusing others of bias when you think "only stage 2 is useable" is kinda incoherent, don't you think?

The premise is Remco vs Pogacar both in reasonable good form on relative shorter climbs.

You gave 3 races where remco form was questionable.
You gave 2 2025 races were everyone and their grandma knows Remco was no good. And a 2024 fall season race were remco was off form and DNP'ed after a successful summer after which he let go of the reins a bit. And where he was working his way back to form in order to be competitive in Lombardy.
So yes, only the first example works.

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

He was close to catching Pog on the final lap of 2024. Close enough that the cars were removed from the gap.

He just started too far back due to him flapping his wings. The only thing missing was Koko B. Ware's pet parakeet

Are you referring to Zurich WC?

You talk as if it was 1 against 1, and in that group there was pulling a guy named Mathieu Van der Poel, among others.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Seixas looking crazy. him and Pogacar will have a field day on sunday.
Maybe Remco can get lucky and find them looking at each other.
Though the more likely scenario is them (seixas and pogacar) riding away together.

 

[peterfin]

Seixas looking crazy. him and Pogacar will have a field day on sunday.
Maybe Remco can get lucky and find them looking at each other.
Though the more likely scenario is them (seixas and pogacar) riding away together.

Pogacar riding away with Seixas trying but failing to follow and Remco 5s further back and getting back to Seixas.

 

[houtdffan]

Are you referring to Zurich WC?

You talk as if it was 1 against 1, and in that group there was pulling a guy named Mathieu Van der Poel, among others.

Remco had dropped VDP on the climb on the final lap. Remco was briefly alone about 20 seconds behind Pog when they hit the summit