The revenge of Rasmussen ...

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python said:
that passage appears to refer to what fuentes called 'siberia' according to tyler, - the most sophisticated and expensive blood doping technique at the time.

what time frame was ras referring to ? same as tyler about (2006?) does he confirm actually using it and does he specify how many bags he'd use in one grand tour ?

the interesting difference btwn fuentes's siberia and what ras described appears the use of plasma. fuentes was freezing it whereas ras said they'd re-infuse it immediately.

imo, freezing plasma was one half step ahead in doping sophistication.
It's the other way around, they took out the blood, centrifuged it to take out the red blood cells and then reinfused the plasma immediately. to the red blood cells they added glycerol so it could be stored at low temps for a long time.
 
gerundium said:
It's the other way around, they took out the blood, centrifuged it to take out the red blood cells and then reinfused the plasma immediately. to the red blood cells they added glycerol so it could be stored at low temps for a long time.
It's just sad doping stopped in 2003 and 2006.

It was becoming so advanced :rolleyes:
 
python said:
that passage appears to refer to what fuentes called 'siberia' according to tyler, - the most sophisticated and expensive blood doping technique at the time.

what time frame was ras referring to ? same as tyler about (2006?) does he confirm actually using it and does he specify how many bags he'd use in one grand tour ?

the interesting difference btwn fuentes's siberia and what ras described appears the use of plasma. fuentes was freezing it whereas ras said they'd re-infuse it immediately.

imo, freezing plasma was one half step ahead in doping sophistication.
Siberia/Human Plasma was for 2006 and 2007 (and planned for his comeback).

He first used blood bags in 2004 TdF (couldn't get much benefit, as he was only allowed to take one in the first stages in Netherlands). In 2005 he had planned to use two bags (450ml and 350ml), but was only allowed to use the first (before the Vosges). In 2007 he used 5 180ml bags (1 before the race, 2 at once before the Alpes and 2 at once before the Albi ITT).
 
Alex76 said:
Absolutely agree - just need Johan to go full genius with his H bombs and the 3 of them will have been able to do what all the dope tests, anti doping agencies & federations have never been able to do...the irony of the house finally being put in order by them is not lost on me.
Manzano, Landis, Hamilton & Rasmussen et. al. were left with nothing to lose. The revelations were corresponding explosive. What they should do is stop all antidoping funding, put up a wanted poster for "DOPERS" with a substantial reward money and watch the information flowing in:D.
Dazed and Confused said:
big gear climber......
Big gear climbing is the natural state. It is "High Rev climbing" is what is unnatural:p.

If LA cried after journalist's questions in TDF, how come he never cried on Oprah? Could have scored some brownie points with his fans.
 
May 26, 2010
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IndianCyclist said:
Manzano, Landis, Hamilton & Rasmussen et. al. were left with nothing to lose. The revelations were corresponding explosive. What they should do is stop all antidoping funding, put up a wanted poster for "DOPERS" with a substantial reward money and watch the information flowing in:D.

Big gear climbing is the natural state. It is "High Rev climbing" is what is unnatural:p.

If LA cried after journalist's questions in TDF, how come he never cried on Oprah? Could have scored some brownie points with his fans.
I wonder was LA crying for the benefit of the 'Vampires', for some reason. Would've thought Armstrong would revel in the whole journo's questioning him and him knowing there was nothing they could do as he had all the bases covered.

Strange.
 
pastronef said:
if I had not met Cassani, I would have won the Tour de France - that's for sure," Rasmussen told politiken.dk. "I am also annoyed about the fact that if I had just called him and said: 'Shut up'. He never would have said a word.

"He [Cassani] has been a professional for 15 years, so he knows the environment from the inside. And if I had asked him to keep quiet, well, he would have done it. He has even told me."


wow, maybe the investigation into Rabo team would have happened anyway, but tough luck to meet cassani while training... how many $$$ has he lost not winning that Tour?
Well there was that American (?) guy who went public about Rasmussen getting him to carry drugs right? That was before the Cassani story if memory serves, so something was going to happen most likely...

Did Chicken also see Cassani when training...yes he did, Google just found me http://books.google.fr/books?id=0Sm1sajN96wC&pg=PT37&lpg=PT37&dq=cassani+rasmussen&source=bl&ots=8tSea-i_XP&sig=-L70U9QD8Qfy5g2uuFm-a-iLFCY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=h6Z3UriXE6jQ0QXvvYDQDA&ved=0CHQQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=cassani rasmussen&f=false



Seems interesting !
 

Dr. Maserati

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Ferminal said:
Rasmussen didn't have anything to do with their investigation either but they still farmed his intel. With that knowledge they should be building a case.
It seems they are - or at least gathering intel and awaiting what the UCI decide on regarding an amnesty.
This year alone, we know USADA have interviewed, Weltz, Ryder and Klier.

Netserk said:
He was interviewed for two whole days a couple of days before he admitted in January. It was at with ADD (anti-doping Danmark) and with a representative from WADA and 'special agent Jack Robertson' (FBI) who was there for USADA.
That's slightly wrong, but I have seen it confused before - Robertson is WADA investigator, (formerly a DEA agent).

Netserk said:
On page 202 in the book, Rasmussen says that T. Dekker told him that Cecchini had blood bags in his basement and that he was nearly caught once.
Ho ho ho.
 
Dr. Maserati said:
It seems they are - or at least gathering intel and awaiting what the UCI decide on regarding an amnesty.
This year alone, we know USADA have interviewed, Weltz, Ryder and Klier.


That's slightly wrong, but I have seen it confused before - Robertson is WADA investigator, (formerly a DEA agent).



Ho ho ho.
Just quoting the book. (p.311) ;)

Til stede ved den afhøring var også en repræsentant fra Det Internationale Antidoping-Agentur WADA og special agent Jack Robertson fra de amerikanske antodopingmyndigheder:
Han gjorde meget ud af at flashe sit FBI-badge. Han kiggede mig dybt i øjnene og sagde:
"The truth will set you free"
Jeg havde lyst til at pande ham en.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Netserk said:
Just quoting the book. (p.311) ;)
I assumed it was a quote, slightly wrong - but have seen it before. Either way, the badge worked.
Is there more info on Dekker from the book? I always though he would have a good insight as he was one of their star riders.
The Conconi part is very interesting.
 
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Netserk said:
Siberia/Human Plasma was for 2006 and 2007 (and planned for his comeback).

He first used blood bags in 2004 TdF (couldn't get much benefit, as he was only allowed to take one in the first stages in Netherlands). In 2005 he had planned to use two bags (450ml and 350ml), but was only allowed to use the first (before the Vosges). In 2007 he used 5 180ml bags (1 before the race, 2 at once before the Alpes and 2 at once before the Albi ITT).
a very useful information as it shows some differences in the blood doping protocols publicly revealed ! it also shows a degree of sophistication and preparedness for blood profiling (as the passport was not formally/officially introduced till 2008 but was indded used for targeting way before 2008).

in the article linked by neinei above, ras, if i understood it right, was saying they drew about 220-230 ml into one bag. this is the infamous 'half-unit' that rendered the blood passport useless and that allegedly was used by bert before he got caught with clen...

gerundium said:
It's the other way around, they took out the blood, centrifuged it to take out the red blood cells and then reinfused the plasma immediately. to the red blood cells they added glycerol so it could be stored at low temps for a long time.
’the other way around’ should refer to your reading comprehension. i only referred to the differences in handling plasma between Fuentes and what ras said regarding the long-term storage. The other elements and stages of their glycerol-liquid nitrogen techniques - drawing the whole blood, separation of rbcs in a centrifuge, soaking in glycerol - being apparently the same. again, fuentes as is/was well known, was freezing plasma to be administered shortly after packed rbcs infusion (wada thinking)
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Moose McKnuckles said:
I wonder what implications this may have for cyclocross. Rabobank sponsored Sven Nys and other top 'crossers for years.
As recently as last December, Nys said he knew Leinders as 'an honest man'. He used to be Nys' trainer, not only his doctor.

I'm not accusing Nys of anything, mind you. Here in the Clinic everything's mostly black-or-white, but Leinders appears to be an interesting character who only provided doping to the happy few.
 
python said:
a very useful information as it shows some differences in the blood doping protocols publicly revealed ! it also shows a degree of sophistication and preparedness for blood profiling (as the passport was not formally/officially introduced till 2008 but was indded used for targeting way before 2008).

in the article linked by neinei above, ras, if i understood it right, was saying they drew about 220-230 ml into one bag. this is the infamous 'half-unit' that rendered the blood passport useless and that allegedly was used by bert before he got caught with clen...
Yeah the 220ml is mentioned on p.165. That refers to the first time with Human Plasma (November 2005).

The next year they bought their own machine which used 180ml bags. (p.199)

And a precision regarding the timing of the bags in '07: the second and third bag was after stage 6, and the last two bags were after stage 11.

edit: In 2006 Ras used two bags (220ml) during the race, even though he only was allowed to use the first by the management.
 
So, Freire and Flecha. While it's possible that the original "100% doped" was an offhand comment which wasn't meant to be taken literally, it's very unlikely that they were clean. Rasmussen has only said he didn't see them dope, which is very different from saying he hadn't heard anything about their doping. What's puzzling is that he'd be afraid of a lawsuit at this point and only in regards to Freire.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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hrotha said:
So, Freire and Flecha. While it's possible that the original "100% doped" was an offhand comment which wasn't meant to be taken literally, it's very unlikely that they were clean. Rasmussen has only said he didn't see them dope, which is very different from saying he hadn't heard anything about their doping. What's puzzling is that he'd be afraid of a lawsuit at this point and only in regards to Freire.
"I have demanded an apology, and to do so publicly," Freire told ciclismo.as.com. "He answered that he never expressly said my name." Freire said he'd take action against Rasmussen if the Dane does not clear his name.

"I do not understand," Freire told marca.com. "He can speak for himself or who he has seen taking substances but not the whole team, I cannot allow that."

Freire believed Rasmussen is motivated by financial gain regarding the publication of his book.

"Probably what Rasmussen wants to do is sell many books, but that cannot be," Freire told marca.com. "These things do much damage to cycling and all of those who have been a part of it."
There we go :D
 
hrotha said:
So, Freire and Flecha. While it's possible that the original "100% doped" was an offhand comment which wasn't meant to be taken literally, it's very unlikely that they were clean. Rasmussen has only said he didn't see them dope, which is very different from saying he hadn't heard anything about their doping. What's puzzling is that he'd be afraid of a lawsuit at this point and only in regards to Freire.
It was on a live chat, so answered shortly after the question was asked.
 

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Netserk said:
It was on a live chat, so answered shortly after the question was asked.
I assume the "100% doped" was in the live chat? Does the book saying anything specific to Freire?
 
hrotha said:
So, Freire and Flecha. While it's possible that the original "100% doped" was an offhand comment which wasn't meant to be taken literally, it's very unlikely that they were clean. Rasmussen has only said he didn't see them dope, which is very different from saying he hadn't heard anything about their doping. What's puzzling is that he'd be afraid of a lawsuit at this point and only in regards to Freire.
(Es una forma de hablar hrotha, y asi se debiera haber tomado, no como algunos ya dando por hecho que Freire se dopaba, que tampoco iba a ser asi pq lo diga el pollo)

Of course, is a way to talk to make more noise...it is like when people said: in my era, everybody doped.. and if you ask: sure?? what you think of this man...? and he said, ou, well, there was some exceptions.

Or if I said, yes, I copied in that exam, but everybody did... and maybe it was just 50 % copying.

Freire answered all that when Dekker told. Dekker and Rassmusen agree to consider 2008 a differente year, at least cleaner, or maybe clean for Rabo.

But anyway the credibility of Rassmusen is small, and this is a new proof.
In other treath there are people putting Rasmusen statement like if his opinion worth a lot :rolleyes:
 
Taxus4a said:
But anyway the credibility of Rassmusen is small, and this is a new proof.
Like Landis? Hamilton? Do you doubt that the Chicken have seen a lot of doping stuff, in all his pro years? If no, why would he make stuff up, that can get him in very serious trouble, when he can just tell what he knows?

Beside, there have been started a on investigation, there have been going on for quite some time now, based on the chickens information.
 

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