The revenge of Rasmussen ...

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Lanark said:
Although there were no concrete rumors about this, I was always suspicious about the way Rabo got rid of Dekker in 2008. He was the biggest talent in The Netherlands, with the highest PR value. And suddenly, they didn't allow him to ride any races, and payed a huge som of money to buy off his contract. Sure, they had information that he had dodgy blood values...but so had Menchov, or Rasmussen, and later Barredo. That hardly seems like a confincing reason to get rid of him at all costs. I always had the, completely unfounded, suspicion that Rabobank knew that Dekker was tested 6 months before and that they got tipped off by the UCI that they knew het was using Dynepo, and they were only waiting for the test to be ratified before they could catch him, and Rabo dumped him to Lotto.

Anyway, as a Dutch guy it is interesting to read all these revelations about Leinders. During his reign at Rabobank, he was a fairly unkown guy, only die-hards knew about him. In interviews he always seemed like a very intelligent, decent man. At worst I think most people suspected him of being the kind of docter that would never encourage doping, but knew the riders would do it anyway (like so many in the 90's), and therefor helped them to at least prevent medical problems. But now, it is clear that he was a full on doping docter, giving advice, colluding with the UCI, administering transfusions, inspecting the Human Plasma compound, experimenting to better evade tests. Pretty incredible, on of the most succesfull docters in the peloton, non of his riders test positive, yet a complete unknown compared to guys like Ferrari and Cecchini.

If you wanted to hire one of the best doping docters who has a great reputation, you could barely find a better candidate.
Yes it beggars belief how Menchov spent a career flying under the radar, winning GTs but never getting busted. He had a strong smell of doping about him as well but was Teflon coated. Perhaps until he moved to Katusha.

Dekker on the other hand the UCI would have been fully aware he was doping at Rabo. Sad they snared him. Because he was a young guy and by all accounts was pressured to dope. But yes the UCI probably tipped off Rabo to offload him as he'd gone rouge.

Alas Leinders. I agree he's the perfect guy to hire. Not a black mark to his name but highly regarded for doping. He's your friendly neighbourhood doping doctor. Looks good on the team sheet and can get the job done, doping wise.
 

martinvickers

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Oct 15, 2012
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sniper said:
De Jongh recommended him, sure (and nothing to see there of course), but isn't it fair to assume Leinders was on a list of candidates, a list not composed by De Jongh?
The official story was the 'brains trust' asked around; Leinders was recommended by others, they asked De Jongh about him, De Jongh vouched for him, they hired, ... sh!t hit fan.

I've said time and time again to the sky sceptics, De Jongh is the man to corner on this.

There are two clear possiblities; a bad one and a worse one. Either -

1) De jongh conspired with Leinders to get him on board by spinning a yarn about his anti-doping views (Steve Peters apparently was told by Leinders that he was keen on a dope free tea - possibly because De Jongh coached him) and the fools fell for it, or

2) the whole brains trust was in on it, knowing full well his history.

What he did at Sky is a separate question, but if 2) is the answer, it hardly fills one with confidence...
 
May 26, 2010
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Now we know why Flecha retired this year.

Rasmussen has just said the Rabobank 2007 TdF squad were all doping.

Peter Weening could be out of a job at orica greenedge if he signed their anti doping charter and lied.
 
Benotti69 said:
Now we know why Flecha retired this year.

Rasmussen has just said the Rabobank 2007 TdF squad were all doping.

Peter Weening could be out of a job at orica greenedge if he signed their anti doping charter and lied.
Then why hasn't Nicki Sørensen retired?

Conclusion:
That's not the reason why Flecha retired.
 
May 26, 2010
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Netserk said:
Then why hasn't Nicki Sørensen retired?

Conclusion:
That's not the reason why Flecha retired.
Maybe Flecha knows how it is going to end whereas Nicki Sorenson has his head buried in a dark hole.
 
May 19, 2010
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Are we talking about what Rasmussen said here?:

http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Artikler/2013/11/03/204402.htm

Hej Michael

Hvis du skal komme med et gæt, hvor mange % af rytterne vil du skyde på, var i 07 da du bliver smidt ud af løbet, dopet ?
mads nielsen

Michael Rasmussen: Hej Mads.

På Rabobank: 100 procent.

Ganske vist ikke med de samme potente midler, men alle modtog en eller anden form for doping fra holdet.

Jeg vil nødigt skyde på, hvor stor en del af det samlede felt, der var dopet.
All the Rabobank riders on the 2007 TdF team were doped. Not all on the high octane stuff, but all were getting some kind of doping from the team.

51 Denis Menchov
52 Michael Boogerd
53 Bram de Groot
54 Thomas Dekker
55 Juan Antonio Flecha
56 Óscar Freire
57 Grischa Niermann
58 Michael Rasmussen
59 Pieter Weening
 
Oct 16, 2010
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thehog said:
he'd gone rouge.
epic typo
your friendly neighbourhood doping doctor.
:D
Benotti69 said:
Maybe Flecha knows how it is going to end whereas Nicki Sorenson has his head buried in a dark hole.
lol.
however, spaniards on average usually arent too impressed by doping rumors, so i,d be surprised as well if rasmussens statements triggered flechas retirement.

wrt weening: couldnt he just deny rasmussens statements and get on with business?
i mean, what legal weight could rasmussens statements have. If orica fire his *** over this, weening could perhaps sue orica for illegal breach of contract?
 
May 26, 2010
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sniper said:
epic typo
:D
lol.
however, spaniards on average usually arent too impressed by doping rumors, so i,d be surprised as well if rasmussens statements triggered flechas retirement.

wrt weening: couldnt he just deny rasmussens statements and get on with business?
i mean, what legal weight could rasmussens statements have. If orica fire his *** over this, weening could perhaps sue orica for illegal breach of contract?
Well Thomas Dekker will be sent forth by JV now to back Rasmussen's statements, so that will lead to a 'reasoned decision' about Rabo.:D
 
roundabout said:
Sounds like it was written by "Confessions-R-Us" run by Vaughters Inc.

Thanks to the people around me I realised in 2003 that banned substances was not the path I wanted to follow,” Niermann said, according to the Dutch federation website. “That’s why I stopped and for the past 10 years, I tried to set an example for the young riders at Rabobank as being honest, hardworking and professional.”
“To rekindle that dark period is very painful for me, but it also reinforces the decision I made in 2003 to draw a line under it,” Niermann said. “I will share all further relevant information with the anti-doping authorities.”
 
Do we have to believe Ras over Niermann though, Niermann say he stopped in 2003 and there is a decrease in his cq graph between 2003/2004,

I am not sure which is correct on this one, and even is Ras is wrong, I am not saying he is deliberately lying, just that he might believe all his teamates where doping because the majority where
 
Jan 11, 2010
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sniper said:
ffs. you gotta be kidding. just look at that.
plain straightforward plagiarism. these guys are copying each other´s confessions.

interesting that he´s contradicting rasmussen wrt 2007.
Rasmussen is contradicting himself with regards to the Tour 2007, so for that matter...

I think he testified differently under oath, but I could be wrong.

del1962 said:
Do we have to beleive Ras over Niermann though, Niermann say he stopped in 2003 and there is a decrease in his cq graph between 2003/2004,

I am not sure which is correct on this one, and even is Ras is wrong, I am not saying he is deliberately lying, just that he might beleive all his teamates where doping because the majority where
The CQ graph isn't that relevant, Niermann was a pure domestique.

BTW, if Niermann took doping in 2007, he could just as well have said it, as the truth and reconciliation-deal involved the same punishment for every doping offense before 2008: half a year suspension, which he has already faced.
 
May 19, 2010
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del1962 said:
Do we have to believe Ras over Niermann though, Niermann say he stopped in 2003 and there is a decrease in his cq graph between 2003/2004,

I am not sure which is correct on this one, and even is Ras is wrong, I am not saying he is deliberately lying, just that he might believe all his teamates where doping because the majority where
What Rasmussen is saying isn't contradicting Niermann ending his EPO use in 2003. The doping he claims Niermann was given by Leinders & co for 2007 TdF might just be some cortisone, for instance.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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roundabout said:
Isn't Niermann still a coach at "Rabobank"? Wasn't the appeal in the Rasmussen case still ongoing?

Just a thought.
Niermann is currently a DS for the Rabo development squad, yes. But he was one of the few riders (actually, the only one) who came forth in that truth and reconciliation process in Holland earlier this year.

He could have just have kept his mouth shut altogether, like the rest of the 500 interviewees, if Rabo asked him to. And I know it doesn't mean anything, but I'd definitely trust Niermann before the Chicken, but that's just me.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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It was T&R for people currently active in Dutch cycling teams. So no.

Interestingly, Weening hasn't had to sign it, since he doesn't ride for a Dutch cycling team.
 
May 27, 2012
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I'm starting to like Ras as much as Floyd. I love a man who is willing to pull the pin and throw the grenade into the midst of the bunch.
 

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