The revenge of Rasmussen ...

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Apr 20, 2012
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pmcg76 said:
I find the claims of this unknown rider a big unrealistic I have to say. No team doping before the Tour in 99!!

Rabobank were on fire early in the 99 season, 4 guys in the top 6 at Paris-Nice without a TTT!!! Then at the Ardennes classics, 3 in top 10 at Fleche, 4 at L-B-L and 5 at Amstel Gold including the winner Boogerd.

I remember there were stories that many teams had cut back on the doping in the early season but a few teams were not following the rest and were riding in a dominating manner and Rabobank were one of those teams. Kelme were another and F.Vandendroucke was a one man team that season. Maybe there were all doping individually really, really well.
'Cyclisme a deux vitesses' if I remember correctly, was that 1999?

Remember Boogerd thought he had a chance at winning the Tour that year, only he got stuck at the Passage du Bois/Gois, correct me if I am wrong.
Zulle was also there on the cobblestones and ended second to the boy, I believe he was 'cleanish' that year...
 
Full statement from the anonymous rider who im almost sure is Marc Lotz.

Google Translated.

"Oh come, of course they knew it"

Opposite the NIS, a former Rabobank rider who wishes to remain anonymous, made a statement on doping within the team. He says that was widely used. With the knowledge of the team management. Below are full statement.

The turning point for the Rabobank team came according to the source in the years before the turn of the century. "1999 was a dramatic Tour de France for Rabobank. Following that Tour riders have mutually agreed that it could not and that something had to change."

The choice was for the riders simple: join or quit. "Mutually they agreed that they would participate in the game. The vote was along the lines of:" We will not piepelen ". They went to the EPO." And that happened under the former rider with the knowledge of the doctor Geert Leinders: "The team doctor was aware. That is Geert Leinders."

Doping threw soon bear fruit. "A year later, Erik Dekker won three Tour stages. Rarara, why? You're not mad ..."

The source indicates how easy it was to begin with doping. "At one point I went to the team doctor and asked," Can I have epo? " Yeah, that was good, the doctor said. He gave me a bag with six syringes in it, such cooling pouch. I kept it at home in the fridge. "

"When I had finished my course, I threw everything away. At three syringes I had enough. The rest I just threw away, hup, somewhere in a container."

"Of course they knew it"
There can be no doubt that the leadership of the Rabobank team was aware of doping, he says: "Leinders belonged to the team management, so it seems clear to me. And Leinders will certainly during a drink or a cozy moment with its other directors ever told what he was doing. Oh come, of course they knew. "

"Do not forget that De Rooij, Breukink, Maassen, you name it, themselves professional cyclist been. They know all the ins and outs of this world. That obviously knew what was going on. You do not even really asking to know and to see what was going on. "

Testing escape was then still simple: "Sometimes I had three weeks no matches. Often I went the first week with my girlfriend a week away, abroad. During that time, you did not have such strict controls, not where-abouts . and unannounced inspections abroad were certainly not. "

Junkie
"I injected myself, like all the other guys. Course I have ever had a vitamin injection or iron injection. You pay attention to what the doctor is doing and you do it after. Alas, Leinders will also give us a bit instruction has been given, but I do not remember so well. well how I looked older, experienced riders did and then I did it just after. "

"In the beginning you just injected just under the skin. Not so hard. Later, when an EPO test, it was difficult. Then you had to inject directly into the vein. Yeah, I did. Then I found the most normal thing in the world. When I think back now, I feel almost a junkie. "

"Leinders knew all the tricks"
The anonymous cyclist think most Dutch top riders epo names: "I think more than ninety percent. Alas, I'm sure. Only that kind of eccentric characters like Thorwald Veneberg not. That was really the alternative ideas and very on nature oriented. But all the rest. All top riders have taken. "

Doping was normal within the Rabobank team: "During the training we also talked about just. How to use it, which is good stuff, you had to be careful with it."

Even at matches was the subject avoided: "After Amstel Gold Race was a rider totally broken. Back in the bus gave the team doctor - Leinders, yes - a pill. He said take it tonight, not now, because if you get tested , youre screwed. "

"But that rider did not listen well and take that pill in his throat and swallow it. Turned out he was gonna get tested. Great stress. Leinders furious. Leinders gave him soon another drink and another pill. Blood Nervously he pee. Pale fortunately nothing wrong. Leinders What has given him? I do not know, but he has certainly saved him. Leinders knows all the tricks. Such a pill we got often. then recovered better, said Leinders . "

Centrifuge
The former rider gives other examples of the extensive doping in cycling. "In my second or third year I was once on the hotel room with an older, experienced rider. I see that he is a drip on the wall has been confirmed and the needle to himself brings. Whether it was blood or salt solution, I do not know that I could not see. Anyway, it says something about the mentality. "

"I was in a team with a superstar, he had a small machine that makes your hematocrit was measured. Did we just with him in the hotel room. *** the finger, few drops of blood in a tube, tube in the machine, three minutes centrifugation and you knew what the content was. Were you under fifty, there was nothing wrong, cheering in the hotel room. And you can not think our team was an exception, as it is in most teams to it. "

nos.nl
 
Apr 21, 2012
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Rabo were obviously still on EPO in 1999, expected from the TdF where most of the teams were afraid of the police and did it paniagua.

Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Zulle was also there on the cobblestones and ended second to the boy, I believe he was 'cleanish' that year...
The first 3 of the prologue were positive for EPO according to the AFLD study, that means Zulle and Olano started that Tdf on EPO, but IMO they didn't have any Motoman, perhaps just one or two EPO shots near the spanish border but not enough to challenge Wonderboy.

Same thing in 2000, many teams were afraid of the new EPO test and stopped the injections a week before the start, according to TH, US Postal did their first blood transfusions that year, enough to be far above the other teams (I still don't get if they had EPO intravenously during that TdF or not)
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Gregga said:
Rabo were obviously still on EPO in 1999, expected from the TdF where most of the teams were afraid of the police and did it paniagua.



The first 3 of the prologue were positive for EPO according to the AFLD study, that means Zulle and Olano started that Tdf on EPO, but IMO they didn't have any Motoman, perhaps just one or two EPO shots near the spanish border but not enough to challenge Wonderboy.

Same thing in 2000, many teams were afraid of the new EPO test and stopped the injections a week before the start, according to TH, US Postal did their first blood transfusions that year, enough to be far above the other teams (I still don't get if they had EPO intravenously during that TdF or not)
Do you have a link to that study, would like to read it. Zulle 'cleanish' is merely a hopefull semi - fanboish [was even too old back than for that] thing.
 
Gregga said:
Rabo were obviously still on EPO in 1999, expected from the TdF where most of the teams were afraid of the police and did it paniagua.

The first 3 of the prologue were positive for EPO according to the AFLD study, that means Zulle and Olano started that Tdf on EPO, but IMO they didn't have any Motoman, perhaps just one or two EPO shots near the spanish border but not enough to challenge Wonderboy.
The four tested for the '99 prologue were positive. Armstrong was tested because he was first. The other testees were random selections. They were Hamburger, Beltran, and, if I remember correctly, Castelblanco. Zulle and Olano were not found posiitve by the retrospective testing.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Yes, it has to be Lotz, and Bettini. Rogers is indeed not a superstar, certainly he isn't regarded as such in Holland.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Guess mystery man is more likely another rider, still active.
Very unlikely. It could almost only be Karsten Kroon, in that case, and I don't think that's likely.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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theyoungest said:
Very unlikely. It could almost only be Karsten Kroon, in that case, and I don't think that's likely.
It must be a rider who really likes Boogerdje, catch the drift?

Nevertheless, the truth will set them free, I hope for them that is.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
It must be a rider who really likes Boogerdje, catch the drift?
No, I don't. You mean Thomas D or something? Too young.

Karsten Kroon is currently active on the very same team where he would have ridden with the "supervedette", he isn't going to speak about that.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
http://www.wielren.com/php/ploeg.php?ploegid=2&vertaalid=&jaar=3#

take ur pick.

And, really, please check ur facts. Superstars are not realative my friend.
You speak in riddles. Just say what you mean, or don't say anything at all. 'Don't waste my time', to use your own words.

Of course I checked the team roster for that year. Only a few names apply. And Marc Lotz is by far the most likely. The word "supervedette" doesn't apply to everyone and their mother, it has to be one of the real superstars of the sport he was on the team with.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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it's defintely not lotz. he talks about a rider who had a hematocritemeter, which was pretty useless after 2000, when epo was traceable. also lotz never talks this sensationalist and by going by the interview, the rider seems to be pretty good at least. he is definitely much older than lotz and rode with a super vedette in the 90s(after 96). this has to be beat zberg and he's talking about pantani, who had the meter.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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mountainrman said:
It should be a slamdunk for Rasmussen, and could be the final straw of why Rabo pulled out - not wanting to pay up for their own crass decision - it could bankrupt the team if they lose.

It would be interesting if Rabo try to deflect blame on UCI who actually destroyed the rest of his career.
the bank has to pay this, not the team of course :rolleyes:
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
It's so sad people cant be honest while everyone knew in 2007 something was fishy at Rabo. Look how T. Dekker now is in the autobus every day in comparison to 2007.

Good thing Rabo stopped their sponsorship.
that had nothing to do with it. thomas was alreaydy a star as u23 (and junior) rider and even bernhard kohl admitted there was no doping there with rabo. vaughters gave him a chance because he has great tests and potential. he hadn't trained almost in hus suspension years. I expect a lot from him next year.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Bad reply, prove what RABO did after the Tour 2007 or stop waisting my time.
I see your idiotic posts didn't stop there... I hate rabo as much as the next guy but they definitely cleaned up in a big way. now you try to switch the argument with youngest, when it's you that knows nothing about the case. nice try :rolleyes:
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Pentacycle said:
Boogerd has just wasted his last bit of credibility he had with the vitamin-excuse he made up.
Why does the press in the Netherlands waste time on all these Rabo dope program bull****, they weren't even winning the big races. The Dutch press is chasing Rabo into their grave, that's what's happening now. And Herbert Dijkstra is playing along real nicely. Only the fact that the NOS has asked him as a 'cycling expert' for this one, is enough for me.

The problem I'm having with the assumptions you guys make about the team-wide 'doping program' is that the source is unknown,
it needs some clarifying before exaggerating the whole story. The main source for the whole Leinders story are a staggering 6 lines in USADA's file.

It seems to me the doping was rather focused on the Tour riders. Leinders was appointed to win yellow for Rabo, they didn't want to know how he did it.
As long as there weren't any positives, no one from outside the medical staff and some riders would have seen anything.
The DS's and the direction could claim the innocence of their riders as long as Leinders and the doped riders did their homework.

What gets me too is that T Dekker was seeing another doctor in Italy for his doping, but he won't tell anything about that.
I think the riders who were doping were mostly on their own, the only evidence of a big program at Rabo is one sentence from the USADA report
taken way out of context and everyone is losing their minds in the Netherlands...
cecchini had nothing to do with doping by then. even jaksche said this. thomas got his doping much "closer to home" he admitted. which literally implies he talked about leinders and rabo.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Rasmussen: was fired during the 2007 Tour.
Boogerd: quitted in 2007
Dekker: let go in 2008 after a hell of a first half of the season [was still doping]
Menchov: 3th in Tour 2008, won Giro 2009, Vuelta 2007 etc etc, Knebel got rid of him?
Leinders: still there untill 2009
Breukink: let go because of the bad results

It is fair to say your arguments don't add up. The only thing that speaks for itself is the fact Boogerd was denied a staff place on Rabo.

Then the anonymous former Rabo cyclist who stated they only went on the epo after 1999. That would mean Boogerd was clean in 1998 when he was able to climb with the best of the best, ergo Pantani, Ullrich, etc etc? Yeah right.
the 1998 tour was much cleaner. ullrich wasn't on epo either. pantani has always been a class act, the most talented climber of all time with or without doping, he never abused it like riis, who was all of a sudden nowhere anymore. julich, rinero, massi etc all of a sudden rode amazingly. those were the ones still using epo, the spanish teams all quit because they were scared s***less and rode like **** without epo except escartin who has always been talked about as a rider doing it "cleaner(er)". after 99, lance started epo in the tour, which was also still a relative clean tour, after that it all changed again.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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pmcg76 said:
I find the claims of this unknown rider a big unrealistic I have to say. No team doping before the Tour in 99!!

Rabobank were on fire early in the 99 season, 4 guys in the top 6 at Paris-Nice without a TTT!!! Then at the Ardennes classics, 3 in top 10 at Fleche, 4 at L-B-L and 5 at Amstel Gold including the winner Boogerd.

I remember there were stories that many teams had cut back on the doping in the early season but a few teams were not following the rest and were riding in a dominating manner and Rabobank were one of those teams. Kelme were another and F.Vandendroucke was a one man team that season. Maybe there were all doping individually really, really well.
they had a great team and 99 was a very clean year in cycling all around. the cleanest since recently. you can't compare 1 week races and 1 day races to doping in a grand tour for efectivity. armstrong opened everyones eyes in 1999. no one believed him except phill liggett and mart smeets
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
'Cyclisme a deux vitesses' if I remember correctly, was that 1999?

Remember Boogerd thought he had a chance at winning the Tour that year, only he got stuck at the Passage du Bois/Gois, correct me if I am wrong.
Zulle was also there on the cobblestones and ended second to the boy, I believe he was 'cleanish' that year...
they retested 1999 samples years later and found nothing of epo in zulle's(they only found in few more riders, inclduing 4 of lance) so he was doing it clean(ish), he would've beaten lance big time if wasn't for pasage du bois.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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BroDeal said:
The four tested for the '99 prologue were positive. Armstrong was tested because he was first. The other testees were random selections. They were Hamburger, Beltran, and, if I remember correctly, Castelblanco. Zulle and Olano were not found posiitve by the retrospective testing.
exactly.

.....
 

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