The revenge of Rasmussen ...

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Apr 20, 2012
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Ryo Hazuki said:
that had nothing to do with it. thomas was alreaydy a star as u23 (and junior) rider and even bernhard kohl admitted there was no doping there with rabo. vaughters gave him a chance because he has great tests and potential. he hadn't trained almost in hus suspension years. I expect a lot from him next year.
Dunno if you have seen this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSs9QEPMtlA

Great tests my @ss.

ryo said:
I see your idiotic posts didn't stop there... I hate rabo as much as the next guy but they definitely cleaned up in a big way. now you try to switch the argument with youngest, when it's you that knows nothing about the case. nice try
Guess we differ on opinion what cleaning house means. Having Erik Dekker on your staff suggests otherwise, the 2000/2001 Superman.
they retested 1999 samples years later and found nothing of epo in zulle's(they only found in few more riders, inclduing 4 of lance) so he was doing it clean(ish), he would've beaten lance big time if wasn't for pasage du bois
Merci, gives a little joy.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Dunno if you have seen this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSs9QEPMtlA

Great tests my @ss.
Guy does a year of partying and getting fat. Guy does not perform great physical tests after that. Massive surprise.

The final test he did before he got the contract (not in the documentary) was apparently pretty good, certainly for the trajectory he came from.

Guess we differ on opinion what cleaning house means. Having Erik Dekker on your staff suggests otherwise, the 2000/2001 Superman.
Erik Dekker is indeed the only suspicious figure still on that team. Congratulations, you've found him! All the others have been sacked.

It's ridiculous if you think Knebel hasn't been cleaning up the mess. Probably the biggest "get rid of the dopers" operation of any team.

Ryo Hazuki said:
it's defintely not lotz. he talks about a rider who had a hematocritemeter, which was pretty useless after 2000, when epo was traceable. also lotz never talks this sensationalist and by going by the interview, the rider seems to be pretty good at least. he is definitely much older than lotz and rode with a super vedette in the 90s(after 96). this has to be beat zberg and he's talking about pantani, who had the meter.
Somehow I feel it has to be a Dutchie. The interview is so very Dutch in idiom and tone. And of course he doesn't give a f.ck anymore about the image of his former team, he got caught after all.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Dunno if you have seen this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSs9QEPMtlA

Great tests my @ss.

Guess we differ on opinion what cleaning house means. Having Erik Dekker on your staff suggests otherwise, the 2000/2001 Superman.
Merci, gives a little joy.
do you understand the concept of contracts? he couldn't fire leinders because he had nothing against him so he didn't renew his contract as soon as he could and of course knebel wasn't told about anything. he had to find all out by himself. he was an outsider. there was erik dekker in the staff yes, but there was also frans maassen, a guy who never wanted to dope as a rider and retired at young age. knebel didn't know anything from before 2007, only about 2007 when the sponsor understood there were some serious problems that should never happen again, so he got rid of boogerd, thomas, de rooy, rasmussen(fired and it will now bite them in the ***) and leinders, all when they ran out of contract, although de rooy was put under pressure I think.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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theyoungest said:
Guy does a year of partying and getting fat. Guy does not perform great physical tests after that. Massive surprise.

The final test he did before he got the contract (not in the documentary) was apparently pretty good, certainly for the trajectory he came from.


Erik Dekker is indeed the only suspicious figure still on that team. Congratulations, you've found him! All the others have been sacked.

It's ridiculous if you think Knebel hasn't been cleaning up the mess. Probably the biggest "get rid of the dopers" operation of any team.


Somehow I feel it has to be a Dutchie. The interview is so very Dutch in idiom and tone. And of course he doesn't give a f.ck anymore about the image of his former team, he got caught after all.
but all the other reasons to me means it's definitely not lotz. it could also be a rider who was never with rabo in 1999 and that most of what he says is by heresy. a lot of the stuff he says would be bonafide bull**** anyway. really a rider in a hotel installing an infuus to dope himself? yeah very believable... only believable if it was in the 90s, so either he's full of **** or he's much older and I think it's the latter and to me everything makes sense it's btea zberg or someone who was never in rabo in 1999 and then it could be many names.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Anyway, in the AD now also Bram de Groot accuses Geert Leinders of being a doping doctor. The top riders would sometimes be sleeping in a different hotel, and when the doping control came they were told these riders were ill and had gone home.

De Groot sometimes saw Leinders going into the hotel room of one of the top riders of the team, with a cool box. And then lock the door for an hour.

I don't think De Groot was the earlier anonymous rider BTW, doesn't correspond with the facts.
 
BroDeal said:
The four tested for the '99 prologue were positive. Armstrong was tested because he was first. The other testees were random selections. They were Hamburger, Beltran, and, if I remember correctly, Castelblanco. Zulle and Olano were not found posiitve by the retrospective testing.
Those are the 4 riders who got a backdated TUE for corticosteroids. You sure they're the ones who tested positive for EPO too? Honestly I don't remember.
 
Aug 11, 2012
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Ryo Hazuki said:
but all the other reasons to me means it's definitely not lotz. it could also be a rider who was never with rabo in 1999 and that most of what he says is by heresy. a lot of the stuff he says would be bonafide bull**** anyway. really a rider in a hotel installing an infuus to dope himself? yeah very believable... only believable if it was in the 90s, so either he's full of **** or he's much older and I think it's the latter and to me everything makes sense it's btea zberg or someone who was never in rabo in 1999 and then it could be many names.
Its definitely a Dutch rider who was with Rabobank in 1999 or someone who has a personal agenda vs. Rabobank and is talking crap.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Ryo Hazuki said:
yeah? why?
If you want to talk crap, Herbert Dijkstra is as good a choice as any ;)

Sven Nys calls Leinders an honest person, whom he has trusted for all his career. What were the Belgians saying again, about cyclocross being so clean?
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Erik Dekker is indeed the only suspicious figure still on that team. Congratulations, you've found him! All the others have been sacked.

It's ridiculous if you think Knebel hasn't been cleaning up the mess. Probably the biggest "get rid of the dopers" operation of any team.
For the last time: no one was sacked except for the obvious Rasmussen. Menchov winning Vuelta and Giro on Vienna blood was just good publicity.

do you understand the concept of contracts? he couldn't fire leinders because he had nothing against him so he didn't renew his contract as soon as he could and of course knebel wasn't told about anything. he had to find all out by himself. he was an outsider. there was erik dekker in the staff yes, but there was also frans maassen, a guy who never wanted to dope as a rider and retired at young age. knebel didn't know anything from before 2007, only about 2007 when the sponsor understood there were some serious problems that should never happen again, so he got rid of boogerd, thomas, de rooy, rasmussen(fired and it will now bite them in the ***) and leinders, all when they ran out of contract, although de rooy was put under pressure I think
Please, Leinders left on his own, nothing to do with contract not renewed.

Funny thing you bring up Maassen, who's carreer was destroyed by the EPO guys, why would he want to work in a doped up climate like on Rabo? That really puzzles me.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
For the last time: no one was sacked except for the obvious Rasmussen. Menchov winning Vuelta and Giro on Vienna blood was just good publicity.

Please, Leinders left on his own, nothing to do with contract not renewed.

Funny thing you bring up Maassen, who's carreer was destroyed by the EPO guys, why would he want to work in a doped up climate like on Rabo? That really puzzles me.
how are they supposed to sack people when they have no proove against them. rabo aren't stupid enough to fire at will and lose millions of dollars in lawsuits :rolleyes:

and maassen is stupid enough to not have known of any doping going on in their team. you wouldn't believe the amount of idiots involved in rabo. just listen to any interview, with maassen, breukink or de rooy and you'd understand.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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theyoungest said:
If you want to talk crap, Herbert Dijkstra is as good a choice as any ;)

Sven Nys calls Leinders an honest person, whom he has trusted for all his career. What were the Belgians saying again, about cyclocross being so clean?
if nys was doped by leinders, he would've **** his mouth instead of doing an interview. I'm sure most riders under leinders never doped, even former rabo riders like engels and wielinga have admitted that there was always the a-squad of a few riders, who got different treatment
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Ryo Hazuki said:
how are they supposed to sack people when they have no proove against them. rabo aren't stupid enough to fire at will and lose millions of dollars in lawsuits :rolleyes:

and maassen is stupid enough to not have known of any doping going on in their team. you wouldn't believe the amount of idiots involved in rabo. just listen to any interview, with maassen, breukink or de rooy and you'd understand.
On a scale from ****ing dumb to clever, I'd argue that breukink is on the cleverer side of the scale. Not a genius, but not a dumb sucker either, and likeable.
A doper, also, but a couple of inches more genuine and sincere than Bruyneel.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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staubsauger said:
But if it's really Zberg and he's talking about Pantani .... how the hell Pantani got kicked out of il Giro in 1999?, because of a to high hematocrit level ;)
because he was screwed by the organisers on purpose. this is common knowledge within italy and been subject of docu;'s and articles. gotti had a higher hematocrite than pantani and he was allowed to win the giro.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Ryo Hazuki said:
and maassen is stupid enough to not have known of any doping going on in their team. you wouldn't believe the amount of idiots involved in rabo. just listen to any interview, with maassen, breukink or de rooy and you'd understand.
Come on, give Frans a little bit of credit, the guy knows first hand what cycling a deux vitesses is [like Edwig van Hooijdonck and Eddy Bouwmans] and should see idiotic progress made by some of his riders.
how are they supposed to sack people when they have no proove against them. rabo aren't stupid enough to fire at will and lose millions of dollars in lawsuits
I was not my argument my friend, someone else made the point.

Let's focus on more important things.
even former rabo riders like engels and wielinga have admitted that there was always the a-squad of a few riders, who got different treatment
More important. Off course not all riders were pumped up vampires, that would be too POSTAL ;)
because he was screwed by the organisers on purpose. this is common knowledge within italy and been subject of docu;'s and articles. gotti had a higher hematocrite than pantani and he was allowed to win the giro
There were some very angry gamblers on Pampeago.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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sniper said:
On a scale from ****ing dumb to clever, I'd argue that breukink is on the cleverer side of the scale. Not a genius, but not a dumb sucker either, and likeable.
A doper, also, but a couple of inches more genuine and sincere than Bruyneel.
breukink is a guy with zero leadership, anything could fly by under his nose without him knowing or daring to say anything about. as a rider breukink was quite clean though. at least he never attempted epo for himself
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
For the last time: no one was sacked except for the obvious Rasmussen. Menchov winning Vuelta and Giro on Vienna blood was just good publicity.

Please, Leinders left on his own, nothing to do with contract not renewed.

Funny thing you bring up Maassen, who's carreer was destroyed by the EPO guys, why would he want to work in a doped up climate like on Rabo? That really puzzles me.
You can't just randomly go around sacking people. Is that really so difficult to understand? They outright sacked two guys: Rasmussen (lawsuit still going) and Dekker (had to pay him a healthy amount of money). Yes I used the word "sacked" for the simplification of argument, but I assumed someone with some level of intelligence would catch the drift.

Leinders left out of his own accord... yes, that's what we call an "honourable discharge".

sniper said:
On a scale from ****ing dumb to clever, I'd argue that breukink is on the cleverer side of the scale. Not a genius, but not a dumb sucker either, and likeable.
A doper, also, but a couple of inches more genuine and sincere than Bruyneel.
Breukink's career went down the toilet in the EPO era, so if he was a doper he was an "oldschool" doper.

Ryo Hazuki said:
breukink is a guy with zero leadership, anything could fly by under his nose without him knowing or daring to say anything about. as a rider breukink was quite clean though. at least he never attempted epo for himself
Yes, him and De Rooij, they're not evil masterminds or anything. They're just very naïve, perhaps on purpose.
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
because he was screwed by the organisers on purpose. this is common knowledge within italy and been subject of docu;'s and articles. gotti had a higher hematocrite than pantani and he was allowed to win the giro.
so the mystery is really true that they ****ed him up and made him the only one mad man of cycling, although they already knew all the others were as dirty? It's a such shame, they destroyed him with that:(
 
Oct 16, 2010
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theyoungest said:
You can't just randomly go around sacking people. Is that really so difficult to understand? They outright sacked two guys: Rasmussen (lawsuit still going) and Dekker (had to pay him a healthy amount of money). Yes I used the word "sacked" for the simplification of argument, but I assumed someone with some level of intelligence would catch the drift.

Leinders left out of his own accord... yes, that's what we call an "honourable discharge".


Breukink's career went down the toilet in the EPO era, so if he was a doper he was an "oldschool" doper.
difficult to say. he seemed to be at the PED-forefront with PDM, but never fully seems to have recovered from the failed intralipid experiment. It seemed to be a turning point in his carreer. Perhaps it was a turning point also in his head, in the sense that perhaps he decided to take it easier wrt PEDs after that affair.
But difficult to say really where Breukink stood wrt EPO..
 

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