The ridicolous Contador vs Wiggins/Froome comparisons

[metaCYCLE]

What? Are some forumites EPOing themselves round here?

what the hell happened to the omerta, mate???
you don't want me to do a "simeoni" on you now do you?

 

[The Hitch]

Did you forget Contador's best ITTs? He even beat Cancellara when Fabian was in much better shape than he is now

Contador is a monster. Even in ITT's.

I always said the dutchies for all their faults on here know as.much as anyone about cycling, and dts analysis here is spot on as expected.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

2 Volta ao Algarve, Stage 5 : Lagoa - Portimao I.T.T.
2 Critérium International, Stage 3 : Porto-Vecchio I.T.T.
1 Vuelta a Castilla y Leon, Stage 4 : Ponferrada I.T.T.
6 Critérium du Dauphiné, Stage 3 : Monteux - Sorgues I.T.T.

Those are Contador's results in TT in begining on 2010 as you posted now lets check Wiggins in same time frame in 2012 racing many of the same races:

1 Volta ao Algarve, Stage 5 : Lagoa - Portimao I.T.T.
1 Paris - Nice, Stage 8 : Nice - Col d'Eze I.T.T.
1 Tour de Romandie, Stage 5 : Crans-Montana - Crans-Montana I.T.T.
1 Critérium du Dauphiné, Stage 4 : Villié-Morgon - Bourg-en-Bresse I.T.T.

Now you tell me who is better?

Can you read? I never said Contador was a better ITT-er. I said he can limit the damage to Wiggins and never lose more than 40/45 seconds on top form (maybe even far less). He's definately less consistent than Wiggins in a time trial, but in top form he is really really hard to beat in a time trial

 

[The Hitch]

Er, why did you start your own thread on the same subject as my thread? A bit rude.

In the last couple of tours Contador has not dominated. Last year he cracked, the year before he scrapped a win against A Schleck, only later to have it taken away. His TTing won't be much better than Evans' TTing, and look what happened to day. And his team won't be as good as sky. The tour is unlikely to have many steep climbs where he can put minutes into people. I think Wiggins may well have the edge next year.

Lololol. This is exactly the kind of ignorant mentality i want wiggins the brit "press" and his fangroup to have for next year.

It will.make the usually mundane procedure of watching contador and andy gap everyone on a few climbs, oh so much more exciting.

 

[Fetisoff]

Don't worry, the Tour will be over soon so most of these people will go away for a year

 

[The Hitch]

The really question is, is can Wiggo put more time on Contador in the ITT then Contador can put on Wiggo in the mountains?

What is the capital of France ?

 

[The Hitch]

Depends on the route. With this year's route, yes, on a more normal route hell no.

Oh come off it la flo. Did you ever watch contador cycle or just the pictures of him that came.after? This new "contador is doomed" character you have taken on reminds.me.a bit of the guys standing on cardboard boxes on the street shouting that the world is about to end.

And honest to.god there is more logic in some.of what they have to say than in some of these doom and gloom prophecies you have been making.

With Andy there as.well it would be 2k from.the end.of a small.cat 2.mtf like Saturday that the tour was a 2 horse race.

 

[The Hitch]

contador was on the sauce though, isn't that general opinion?

What in 2009

Nah contador was not caught there and won that tour fair and square so.no.reason not.to expect a similar performance.in.13

 

[trevim]

First of all, thanks Dekker for this thread. I have been completely shocked by Sky's performance and it's good to have some facts that light this impression a bit.
Then, about Contador and TT's: let's not forget he was a beast on a week 3 TT. I don't know what kind of improvement Sky has done but can they recover like Alberto?
Finally about bashing Schleck: it's OK now, it's very popular, specially since he's been injured all year. But I have to say he's one of the most exciting climbers on the peloton when on the top of his game. Basso, Sanchez, Nibali, Rodriguez, Scarponi are all 2nd tier compared to him. Plus, to me personally, he has the smoothest climbing style even greater than Contador.

 

[Forunculo]

If Wiggo and Froome smash the Tour I predict a hot situation like 2009, could the young and naive little spaniard resist the charge of the 7 times winner Lance... the audience at that Tour implode and gave the succesful riders who beat Armstrong like Andy and Alberto a very high fame and hierarchy and lift up the cyclism to Armstrong era in terms of popularity.

If a media group like Murdoch owns pay attention to the 2013 Tour could heat the preview and transform it into a key race where the hierarchy is changed or confirmed.

ASO and UCI happy with the prospect and will see given the parcours of 2013 who ASO sides with.

I still think Contador is better, much better but should improve a lot his team

 

[The Hitch]

no i'm not insinuating, he is serving a ban for doping he is a convicted doper, correct?

Lol you think we forgot you? The idiot who promised that wiggins would win the 2010tour and neither.menchov nor samu would make top 20.

 

[Forunculo]

First of all, thanks Dekker for this thread. I have been completely shocked by Sky's performance and it's good to have some facts that light this impression a bit.
Then, about Contador and TT's: let's not forget he was a beast on a week 3 TT. I don't know what kind of improvement Sky has done but can they recover like Alberto?
Finally about bashing Schleck: it's OK now, it's very popular, specially since he's been injured all year. But I have to say he's one of the most exciting climbers on the peloton when on the top of his game. Basso, Sanchez, Nibali, Rodriguez, Scarponi are all 2nd tier compared to him. Plus, to me personally, he has the smoothest climbing style even greater than Contador.

Well if lazy is an injury yes but a proper injury only last month and his fall was due to lack of practice in race.


No doubt he is on the league of Contador and the rest are 2nd tier but you can't develop if you only "race" 21 days per year.

 

[The Hitch]

andy schleck would not be ripping anything apart.

Ah yes the expert.opinion of.someone who.left the forum.in shame.having made the most.ridiculous predictions since Carlton kirby chose joaquim rodriguez for de.ronde ( its a race in April btw) and spending a month lecturing anyone who knew better better ( that is to say anyone who can tell the difference between a bicycle and a motorcycle.

 

[marioni]

The really question is, is can Wiggo put more time on Contador in the ITT then Contador can put on Wiggo in the mountains?

Depends on the route. If it's like this year, the "Sky" route, with 100km ITT and lame mountains, surely Wiggins is the favorite. Balanced route, Contador can drop anyone in the mountains and he'd win.

 

[marioni]

Don't forget that Contador made a fool out of a fully prepared Nibali in the Giro. That he eased away from Evans so many times uphill. Gaining +1 min with a serious attack. Even 1'30+ in not-topform TDF 2010 on guys like Vandenbroeck.
Now compare that to the Sky duo. Strong as they might seem, they can't shed Evans on a climb. Nibali lost what, 8 seconds on 200m sprint? And JvdBroeck attack on saturday put Froome and Wiggins on the limit...
Contador rode away from that same guy with ease when he wasn't in ultimate shape in TDF 2010. Who are we kidding?

Contador uphill is in another league than Wiggins or Froome. And I doubt he would lose more than 40 seconds on Wiggins in a topform in an ITT.

I think it's understandable there's so much hype right now about Wiggo and Froome, but yeah, I agree with what you're saying.

 

[rata de sentina]

You're not factoring in that Wiggins has taken it to a new level. AC would be 40 seconds down on FC's time, meaning he would have lost 1:40 to Wiggins.

You've just lost any credibilty with that post. Your reasoning is manifestly silly for so many reasons that it would obviously be futile to explain. Please go away and have a good hard think about it.

 

[Publicus]

2 Volta ao Algarve, Stage 5 : Lagoa - Portimao I.T.T.
2 Critérium International, Stage 3 : Porto-Vecchio I.T.T.
1 Vuelta a Castilla y Leon, Stage 4 : Ponferrada I.T.T.
6 Critérium du Dauphiné, Stage 3 : Monteux - Sorgues I.T.T.

Those are Contador's results in TT in begining on 2010 as you posted now lets check Wiggins in same time frame in 2012 racing many of the same races:

1 Volta ao Algarve, Stage 5 : Lagoa - Portimao I.T.T.
1 Paris - Nice, Stage 8 : Nice - Col d'Eze I.T.T.
1 Tour de Romandie, Stage 5 : Crans-Montana - Crans-Montana I.T.T.
1 Critérium du Dauphiné, Stage 4 : Villié-Morgon - Bourg-en-Bresse I.T.T.

Now you tell me who is better?

Just curious, why didn't you compare their times in the same year and, to the extent possible, races they both entered? And if you are going to cherry pick a year, why choose 2010--clearly Contador's off year, and not his 2009 season?

2009 (Contador)
1 Volta ao Algarve, Stage 4 (ITT)
1 Paris-Nice, Stage 1 (ITT)
2 Vuelta a Castilla y Leon, Stage 2 (ITT)
1 Vuelta a Pais Vasco, Stage 6 (ITT)
2 Criterium du Dauphine, Stage 1 (ITT)
5 Criterium du Dauphine, Stage 4 (ITT)
1 National Championships of Spain (ITT)
2 Tour de France, Stage 1 (ITT)
1 Tour de France, Stage 18 (ITT)

2009 (Wiggins)

2 Paris-Nice, Stage 1 (ITT)
2 Criterium Internationale, Stage 3 (ITT)
1 Driedaagse De Panne, Stage 3b (ITT)
6 Giro d'Italia, Stage 12 (ITT--> 60KM lost to likes of Menchov and Bottle)
3 Tour de France, Stage 1 (ITT)
6 Tour de France, Stage 18 (ITT)

Or you could compare Contador's 2009 with Wiggins' 2012 if you like.

 

[Parera]

Oh come off it la flo. Did you ever watch contador cycle or just the pictures of him that came.after? This new "contador is doomed" character you have taken on reminds.me.a bit of the guys standing on cardboard boxes on the street shouting that the world is about to end.

And honest to.god there is more logic in some.of what they have to say than in some of these doom and gloom prophecies you have been making.

With Andy there as.well it would be 2k from.the end.of a small.cat 2.mtf like Saturday that the tour was a 2 horse race.

So replaying the months since the route for the 2012 in my head, and the discourse was something:

*Oh that's going to favor Time Trialists, Wiggins has a great shot at winning.

*Oh wow, Wiggins was really strong at Paris-Nice. Guess he's solidified his status as an early favorite for Le Tour.

*Wiggins and Sky dominate the Dauphine, damn, maybe they're peaking early but Wiggins seems strong.

*Wow, Wiggins looks strong in the prologue, maybe his form held.

And today, we have Wiggins winning Stage 9 by a healthy margin over an out of shape Spartacus and Cuddles who lost by similar margins earlier in the year; guess that means it's time for everyone to lose their ****? Oh, right, that wouldn't make any sense; after all, this is what everyone has been predicting for ****ing ever now.

 

[Publicus]

So replaying the months since the route for the 2012 in my head, and the discourse was something:

*Oh that's going to favor Time Trialists, Wiggins has a great shot at winning.

*Oh wow, Wiggins was really strong at Paris-Nice. Guess he's solidified his status as an early favorite for Le Tour.

*Wiggins and Sky dominate the Dauphine, damn, maybe they're peaking early but Wiggins seems strong.

*Wow, Wiggins looks strong in the prologue, maybe his form held.

And today, we have Wiggins winning Stage 9 by a healthy margin over an out of shape Spartacus and Cuddles who lost by similar margins earlier in the year; guess that means it's time for everyone to lose their ****? Oh, right, that wouldn't make any sense; after all, this is what everyone has been predicting for ****ing ever now.

Where is this coming from? Folks weren't saying that when he won the prologue and was in the mix on stage 1 and when he finished top 20 on Stage 7. I think this is a prime example of post-hoc rationalization.

 

[Parera]

I think this is a prime example of post-hoc rationalization.

Maybe out of shape was too much, but people were misguided in their belief that Cancellara was 100% entering this race.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

If we have two tts next year my guess is that AC will loose more on the first one than the second one. His recovery is awesome. This does not mather much thought, because he will take 40 sec +++ on every mountain stage next year

 

[User Guide]

As much as id like too believe its a bright new dawn of British dominance,the fact is the OP is right.The frailty of others is getting people both here and in the other place in hysterics.How many contenders arent here? had poor form? crashed,injured etc etc
Skys main weapon(only weapon?) is TT'ing up mountains putting pure climbers under the cosh so they have nothing left too attack in the last 3k,problem is wether you regard contador as a great or a good TTer fact is the sky train wouldnt phase him in the slightest.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Oh come off it la flo. Did you ever watch contador cycle or just the pictures of him that came.after? This new "contador is doomed" character you have taken on reminds.me.a bit of the guys standing on cardboard boxes on the street shouting that the world is about to end.

And honest to.god there is more logic in some.of what they have to say than in some of these doom and gloom prophecies you have been making.

With Andy there as.well it would be 2k from.the end.of a small.cat 2.mtf like Saturday that the tour was a 2 horse race.

All I'm saying is that with this much TT and this few mtf Alberto will lose more time than he can gain, it is simple math.

 

[the asian]

Next year we can earn some money from the Tour. The bookies will have Wiggins as the favourite, and Contador will be at a handy price.
Contador is much underrated Time Trialist. Even in last years' final stage he rode a fantastic TT, when many thought he would lose time due to tiredness.
He has consistently delivered when it matters most.
He would be heads and shoulders above Wiggins in the mountains.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Just curious, why didn't you compare their times in the same year and, to the extent possible, races they both entered? And if you are going to cherry pick a year, why choose 2010--clearly Contador's off year, and not his 2009 season?

Or you could compare Contador's 2009 with Wiggins' 2012 if you like.

Yes that also made me wonder, he picks Wiggo's best season and Alberto's worst..