The Shlecks and doping

[BYOP88]

So we all know about Frank and his generosity of helping out poor Doctors with cash donations. But what about Andy, 60km out front yesterday another hard 90km today and no doubt an ITT tomorrow that will rival Rusmussen's 2007 effort.

 

[Benotti69]

i wondered today about this and whether Riis is bitter enough to leak to say a French journalist via someone not traceable back to Riis details of the Schlecks 'training' regime.

I am sure he was not happy with how the Schlecks took half his team and now taking a TdF win off him.

Will he spill on the Schlecks and him a self confessed doping TdF winner.

Stranger things have happened. Maybe he'll wait to see what CAS do to his number 1 investment, Contador.

 

[hrotha]

There's the Fränk Fund, there's the CSC connection (won't somebody please think of Jaksche!), and then there's the whole being one of the best GT riders of the last 5 seasons. Obviously I have a really hard time to believe he's ever been clean (aren't there rumours about his last amateur team as well?).

That said, I didn't see anything particularly outlandish (there's a potential Floyd pun there somewhere) the past two days. Yesterday he was totally spent by the end of the stage, and today Contador did most of the work and Andy still seemed to be close to his limit at Alpe.

 

[BYOP88]

There's the Fränk Fund, there's the CSC connection (won't somebody please think of Jaksche!), and then there's the whole being one of the best GT riders of the last 5 seasons. Obviously I have a really hard time to believe he's ever been clean (aren't there rumours about his last amateur team as well?).

That said, I didn't see anything particularly outlandish (there's a potential Floyd pun there somewhere) the past two days. Yesterday he was totally spent by the end of the stage, and today Contador did most of the work and Andy still seemed to be close to his limit at Alpe.

Yeah there was a guy on the old cyanide forum, who was French and did a bit of bike racing and said the story about Schleck jnr even then was that he was a charger.

 

[T_S_A_R]

Yeah there was a guy on the old cyanide forum, who was French and did a bit of bike racing and said the story about Schleck jnr even then was that he was a charger.

if a french guy said on the cyanide forum that he heard a story then it must be true.

alert the court of arbitration for sport asap!

 

[roundabout]

He did better than I thought he would today. The Telegraphe was climbed very quickly and he had the legs to go with the attack even if he didn't do anything.

 

[hrotha]

if a french guy said on the cyanide forum that he heard a story then it must be true.

alert the court of arbitration for sport asap!

We qualified it as a rumour, nothing else. It's up to you to give it whatever credibility you think it deserves.

 

[Big Doopie]

...and no doubt an ITT tomorrow that will rival Rusmussen's 2007 effort.

that would truly be disappointing after a tour that was the closest thing we've seen to natural human riding since the late 80s.

this has been the most exciting tour in two decades, because it has been the most "real". and it surely puts to rest the idea that slower racing would be boring.

i would hate the schlecks to come away with such a good tour because i think schlecks -- as much as anyone are probably pushing the bio passport to its extreme (3 tests in 24 hours on andy seems to indicate that). and schlecks complete non-existence throughout the rest of the season is telling. now, if they can be beat by a guy who has measured 92 vo2 -- that is hopeful. if three frenchmen can climb with the leaders in the third week of the tour, if cunego (who has a natural 50+ hematocrit and apparently been off the blood bags/epo for a bit) is about to get his best tour gc result, if three garmin riders can also be in the top 12 or so of two consecutive days in the alps in the third week...this could all be signs that things are at least tempered in terms of blood doping.

today's race was absolutely nothing like the robo-riding of armstrong. particularly heartening is to hear rolland now speaking of lofty goals in his tour future (since he is only 24) -- something french riders could never do in many years...

that, at least, is my hope. that what we have seen is a tour where the blood doping has been limited. and that it is why i would hate to have the schlecks -- so obviously imbedded in that culture -- win this particular edition. what message would that send to the other riders?

along with the schlecks, i expect contadope has also pushed the bio passport to the extreme -- as he has known nothing else since he became pro. it is interesting to note that since leaving the protection of a bruyneel team, contadope has yet to perform up to his previous level when in france -- whether at the tour and dauphine last year, or this year's tour. considering we know he doped, and we see his limits this year, the question has to be asked, how good would he really be without blood doping? and i continue to be perplexed by forumites who claim he is the greatest talent of his generation. how so? how could we possibly know? if when the blood bags are limited he is no longer the rider who stomped the 2009 tour.

just my thoughts and impressions. feel free to sound off.

cheers.

 

[BYOP88]

if a french guy said on the cyanide forum that he heard a story then it must be true.

alert the court of arbitration for sport asap!

I guess you believe that Frank,really was paying for training plans.

Oh and Aquarius, said these things in 2006, so way before Schleck started coming 2nd in GT's.

 

[BYOP88]

that would truly be disappointing after a tour that was the closest thing we've seen to natural human riding since the late 80s.

this has been the most exciting tour in two decades, because it has been the most "real". and it surely puts to rest the idea that slower racing would be boring.

i would hate the schlecks to come away with such a good tour because i think schlecks -- as much as anyone are probably pushing the bio passport to its extreme (3 tests in 24 hours on andy seems to indicate that). now, if they can be beat by a guy who has measured 92 vo2 -- that is hopeful. if three frenchmen can climb with the leaders in the third week of the tour, if cunego (who has a natural 50+ hematocrit and apparently been off the blood bags/epo for a bit) is about to get his best tour gc result, if three garmin riders can also be in the top 12 or so of two consecutive days in the alps in the third week...this could all be signs that things are at least tempered in terms of blood doping.

today's race was absolutely nothing like the robo-riding of armstrong. particularly heartening is to hear rolland now speaking of lofty goals in his tour future (since he is only 24) -- something french riders could never do in many years...

that, at least, is my hope. that what we have seen is a tour where the blood doping has been limited. and that it is why i would hate to have the schlecks -- so obviously imbedded in that culture -- to win this particular edition. what message would that send to the other riders?

along with the schlecks, i expect contadope has also pushed the bio passport to the extreme -- as he has known nothing else since he became pro. it is interesting to note that since leaving the protection of a bruyneel team, contadope has yet to perform up to his previous level when in france -- whether at the tour and dauphine last year, or this year's tour. considering we know he doped, and we see his limits this year, the question has to be asked, how good would he be without blood doping? and i continue to be perplexed by forumites who claim he is the greatest talent of his generation. how so? how could we possibly know? if when the blood bags are limited he is no longer the rider who stomped the 2009 tour.

just my thoughts and impressions. feel free to sound off.

cheers.

Well I think fat Pat will do his utmost to stop the Schlecks getting busted, 1st of he's friends with their dad, I can even remember reading a piece in a cycling mag and Pat said "Johnny, I'm taking over cycling and it's going to become clean, so let your boys carry on cycling". Also I can't remember the head of the UCI ever going to a teams presentation(but I could be wrong about that).

 

[T_S_A_R]

We qualified it as a rumour, nothing else. It's up to you to give it whatever credibility you think it deserves.

i already have

i actually have pretty much the same opinion as you. i suspect most of the GC contenders are topping up but at the same time i haven't really seen anything in this tour that gets my bat sense tingling.

i prefer the clinic when it has some basis in facts and not just strings of people j'accusing whoever had a good day and power estimates with huge margins of error.

threads like this are utterly pointless.

 

[BYOP88]

i already have

i actually have pretty much the same opinion as you. i suspect most of the GC contenders are topping up but at the same time i haven't really seen anything in this tour that gets my bat sense tingling.

i prefer the clinic when it has some basis in facts and not just strings of people j'accusing whoever had a good day and power estimates with huge margins of error.

threads like this are utterly pointless.

Ok so what about Frank or was that just some story invented?

 

[T_S_A_R]

I guess you believe that Frank,really was paying for training plans.

Oh and Aquarius, said these things in 2006, so way before Schleck started coming 2nd in GT's.

no but just because frank probably was planning to dope in 2006 doesn't neccesarily mean andy (or frank for that matter) are dirty this year.

 

[BYOP88]

no but just because frank probably was planning to dope in 2006 doesn't neccesarily mean andy (or frank for that matter) are dirty this year.

So by that logic you'd also be willing to put your hand in the fire for Basso, after all he only planned to dope in '06 too.

 

[Benotti69]

no but just because frank probably was planning to dope in 2006 doesn't neccesarily mean andy (or frank for that matter) are dirty this year.

no it doesn't but you would have to be extremely naive to believe they are riding on nothing but talent and water.

No one in the peloton with the exception of a few believe the guy next to the is not doping. there is quite a few anecdotes of clean riders being harrassed by others to know what they are taking and those riders getting upset and offensive towards the clean rider. I cant remember the riders, apart from Graham Obree who was asked what he was taking to achieve the 1 hour record.

I heard Harmon today on eurosport recounting a story told to him by Michael Rogers the evening before how Voekler is given a hard time by the peloton, now he didn't say why except that he was not seen as one of the peloton! which may be explained that he is anti doping or that he keeps to himself or other.

The Schlecks are dopers, no question about it. their attitude, especially Schleck junior screams doping, putting all his eggs into the TdF basket with the exception of LBL and not trying to win other palmeres is the attitude of someone who believes he has the best regime to win and he will and the rest of the races dont matter again with the exception of LBL.

 

[T_S_A_R]

The Schlecks are dopers, no question about it. their attitude, especially Schleck junior screams doping, putting all his eggs into the TdF basket with the exception of LBL and not trying to win other palmeres is the attitude of someone who believes he has the best regime to win and he will and the rest of the races dont matter again with the exception of LBL.

there definitely is a question about it. maybe not on anonymous forums but in actual real life then there are definitely questions. you also have to remember behaviour can change. cuenego and gerdemann seem to have cleaned themselves up and there is evidence that supports the theory that the biopassport has changed doping behaviour.

what other races would you like andy to focus on?

 

[T_S_A_R]

So by that logic you'd also be willing to put your hand in the fire for Basso, after all he only planned to dope in '06 too.

i don't know.

i know that basso now looks nothing like pre ban basso so i assume he is much cleaner. clean? impossible to tell.

you don't know either.

 

[BYOP88]

there definitely is a question about it. maybe not on anonymous forums but in actual real life then there are definitely questions. you also have to remember behaviour can change. cuenego and gerdemann seem to have cleaned themselves up and there is evidence that supports the theory that the biopassport has changed doping behaviour.

what other races would you like andy to focus on?

Well to be fair Gerdemann was only a legend in his mind.
How about Paris-Nice or the other 1 week stage races that carry some prestige, the Giro or Vuelta, I mean the guy is meant to be the 2nd best stage racer, yet as of today has 0 stage race wins.

 

[BYOP88]

i don't know.

i know that basso now looks nothing like pre ban basso so i assume he is much cleaner. clean? impossible to tell.

you don't know either.

OK my stand is, they're all dopers, period.

 

[Benotti69]

there definitely is a question about it. maybe not on anonymous forums but in actual real life then there are definitely questions. you also have to remember behaviour can change. cuenego and gerdemann seem to have cleaned themselves up and there is evidence that supports the theory that the biopassport has changed doping behaviour.

what other races would you like andy to focus on?

whatever race he enters to take it seriously and not as some micky mouse race. he dilutes his sport with his attitude. anyway i hope he gets popped for a positive for this years TdF.

 

[luckyboy]

no but just because frank probably was planning to dope in 2006 doesn't neccesarily mean andy (or frank for that matter) are dirty this year.

I don't know why they would risk not doping. This is the biggest race in cycling and their main goal for the year. They are racing for a lot of money as well, so I don't see why they would stop doping for some inexplicable reason.

Blood transfusions can't be tested for, so riders will be transfusing. Albeit not using the PVC IV bags that contain the dreaded plasticisers.

I heard Harmon today on eurosport recounting a story told to him by Michael Rogers the evening before how Voekler is given a hard time by the peloton, now he didn't say why except that he was not seen as one of the peloton! which may be explained that he is anti doping or that he keeps to himself or other.

Wasn't it something to do with Voeckler being teased when he first came over to Europe from Martinique? He didn't know a lot about the Euro racing scene and was teased.

 

[T_S_A_R]

good for the two of you.

you both seem like a barrell of laughs.

 

[T_S_A_R]

I don't know why they would risk not doping. This is the biggest race in cycling and their main goal for the year. They are racing for a lot of money as well, so I don't see why they would stop doping for some inexplicable reason.

Blood transfusions can't be tested for, so riders will be transfusing. Albeit not using the PVC IV bags that contain the dreaded plasticisers.

behaviour might change because of changes in testing and the passport plus herd behaviour.

i agree. i would wager they probably are blood doping but unless someone has something interesting or concrete to add starting a new thread is pointless.

 

[BYOP88]

good for the two of you.

you both seem like a barrell of laughs.

Yes I am, but I'm also a realist. Look back at any Tour De France even the 1st one in 1903 and you'll see people cheating way back then, the methods may have been different but the end means are still the same. It's not just cycling that cheating happens.

 

[BYOP88]

behaviour might change because of changes in testing and the passport plus herd behaviour.

i agree. i would wager they probably are blood doping but unless someone has something interesting or concrete to add starting a new thread is pointless.

Ok "what if" it was Contador or Evans who did what Andy did yesterday and today, would you accept that or would you cry foul?

Also is there any concrete evidence that Tommy V or Rolland are doping, nope, but it hasn't stopped threads about them starting.