The Shlecks and doping

[Christian]

(aren't there rumours about his last amateur team as well?).

His only amateur team was VC Roubaix, I haven't heard rumours about them but would be interested in hearing some

 

[Big Doopie]

duplicated post for some reason.

 

[BullsFan22]

no it doesn't but you would have to be extremely naive to believe they are riding on nothing but talent and water.

No one in the peloton with the exception of a few believe the guy next to the is not doping. there is quite a few anecdotes of clean riders being harrassed by others to know what they are taking and those riders getting upset and offensive towards the clean rider. I cant remember the riders, apart from Graham Obree who was asked what he was taking to achieve the 1 hour record.

I heard Harmon today on eurosport recounting a story told to him by Michael Rogers the evening before how Voekler is given a hard time by the peloton, now he didn't say why except that he was not seen as one of the peloton! which may be explained that he is anti doping or that he keeps to himself or other.


The Schlecks are dopers, no question about it. their attitude, especially Schleck junior screams doping, putting all his eggs into the TdF basket with the exception of LBL and not trying to win other palmeres is the attitude of someone who believes he has the best regime to win and he will and the rest of the races dont matter again with the exception of LBL.

Agreed. You know, perhaps the French riders ARE clean after all! Having said that, what are we to do next? Who are we gonna be pointing the fingers next week? Cadel? Rolland? Taarame? Hesjedal? Danielson? Cunego? This tour, much like the 2008 has been pretty exciting and the top guys look human/tired for a change, something we never saw pre 2007 or more specifically, pre 2005.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

I heard Harmon today on eurosport recounting a story told to him by Michael Rogers the evening before how Voekler is given a hard time by the peloton, now he didn't say why except that he was not seen as one of the peloton! which may be explained that he is anti doping or that he keeps to himself or other.

Rogers probably asked Voeckler to split the taxi fare to Freiberg and got hacked off when Voeckler refused.

 

[Christian]

I heard Harmon today on eurosport recounting a story told to him by Michael Rogers the evening before how Voekler is given a hard time by the peloton, now he didn't say why except that he was not seen as one of the peloton! which may be explained that he is anti doping or that he keeps to himself or other.

I think it has to do a lot with his style of riding, his character and his attitude ... he wouldn't really fit in in any of the ProTeams. Last year he said that he wasn't very popular with the "foreign" teams and how he only got a deal with Cofidis in case they wouldn't have found a new sponsor

 

[T_S_A_R]

Ok "what if" it was Contador or Evans who did what Andy did yesterday and today, would you accept that or would you cry foul?

Also is there any concrete evidence that Tommy V or Rolland are doping, nope, but it hasn't stopped threads about them starting.

today evans did exactly what andy did, probably more and contador certainly did more.

andy was impressive yesterday but if the chase group had got organised or bmc, saxo and euskaltel had stronger doms they would have caught him.

i can undestand why the tommy v and rolland threads have opened, they have never been debated before. this is the nth thread about the schlecks and adds absolutely nothing to the debate.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

along with the schlecks, i expect contadope has also pushed the bio passport to the extreme -- as he has known nothing else since he became pro. it is interesting to note that since leaving the protection of a bruyneel team, contadope has yet to perform up to his previous level when in france -- whether at the tour and dauphine last year, or this year's tour. considering we know he doped, and we see his limits this year, the question has to be asked, how good would he be without blood doping? and i continue to be perplexed by forumites who claim he is the greatest talent of his generation. how so? how could we possibly know? if when the blood bags are limited he is no longer the rider who stomped the 2009 tour.

Yeah. Contador was underwhelming at this year's Giro. A real chump.

You have undergone quite the turnaround here. A couple of days ago you were arguing that Contador's performance on a Cat 2 climb was the result of a post-rest day blood bag. Now you are arguing that Contador's performance during the last two mountain stages is due to him no longer doping in France. Make up your mind.

 

[BYOP88]

that would truly be disappointing after a tour that was the closest thing we've seen to natural human riding since the late 80s.

this has been the most exciting tour in two decades, because it has been the most "real". and it surely puts to rest the idea that slower racing would be boring.

i would hate the schlecks to come away with such a good tour because i think schlecks -- as much as anyone are probably pushing the bio passport to its extreme (3 tests in 24 hours on andy seems to indicate that). now, if they can be beat by a guy who has measured 92 vo2 -- that is hopeful. if three frenchmen can climb with the leaders in the third week of the tour, if cunego (who has a natural 50+ hematocrit and apparently been off the blood bags/epo for a bit) is about to get his best tour gc result, if three garmin riders can also be in the top 12 or so of two consecutive days in the alps in the third week...this could all be signs that things are at least tempered in terms of blood doping.

today's race was absolutely nothing like the robo-riding of armstrong. particularly heartening is to hear rolland now speaking of lofty goals in his tour future (since he is only 24) -- something french riders could never do in many years...

that, at least, is my hope. that what we have seen is a tour where the blood doping has been limited. and that it is why i would hate to have the schlecks -- so obviously imbedded in that culture -- to win this particular edition. what message would that send to the other riders?

along with the schlecks, i expect contadope has also pushed the bio passport to the extreme -- as he has known nothing else since he became pro. it is interesting to note that since leaving the protection of a bruyneel team, contadope has yet to perform up to his previous level when in france -- whether at the tour and dauphine last year, or this year's tour. considering we know he doped, and we see his limits this year, the question has to be asked, how good would he be without blood doping? and i continue to be perplexed by forumites who claim he is the greatest talent of his generation. how so? how could we possibly know? if when the blood bags are limited he is no longer the rider who stomped the 2009 tour.

just my thoughts and impressions. feel free to sound off.

cheers.

Even if blood doping has been "limited" due to the threat of the much talked about plasticizers test. The riders are still on the gear as the testing for one product comes into action, the next product is already in play. My timelines maybe off a little(if so I apologize, about that) but by the time the EPO test
came into being hadn't the big guns moved on to something else and the only guys to get popped for EPO were the smaller guys who hadn't moved on to the next product for whatever means(financial would be my guess), ok some "big" guys got busted for CERA, but that's because they weren't aware the makers had made it detectable in tests.

As for Contador leaving the safety of a Hog's team and then getting busted, maybe that is true I mean how many guys in the day left USPS and then got done for doping, I mean Heras had some results for them so if he wasn't doping on USPS why would he then go "hmmm must try that doping thing". Also in my view the Schlecks are the new Armstrong, regarding "protection" from the UCI, after all how many other teams presentation has the head of the UCI gone to?

 

[BYOP88]

today evans did exactly what andy did, probably more and contador certainly did more.

andy was impressive yesterday but if the chase group had got organised or bmc, saxo and euskaltel had stronger doms they would have caught him.

i can undestand why the tommy v and rolland threads have opened, they have never been debated before. this is the nth thread about the schlecks and adds absolutely nothing to the debate.

In the Evans/Schleck group who did the majority of the pacing on Alpe d'Huez?

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Yeah there was a guy on the old cyanide forum, who was French and did a bit of bike racing and said the story about Schleck jnr even then was that he was a charger.

The rumors of the Schlecks' amateur doping are worse than those of Ricco's. You do not find people who raced against Ricco saying that he was crap and they are shocked at how well he peroformed as a pro.

 

[Big Doopie]

You have undergone quite the turnaround here. A couple of days ago you were arguing that Contador's performance on a Cat 2 climb was the result of a post-rest day blood bag. Now you are arguing that Contador's performance during the last two mountain stages is due to him no longer doping in France. Make up your mind.

please don't misrepresent what i have said. all along i have said that contadope is pushing the bio passport as far as he can risk it. i said that in the other thread and i said it here too and you immediately ignore that.

it is not -- is he doping or is he not.

it is how much is he able to dope?

i don't doubt for a second that contadope doped on the final rest day, had a top off, refill, etc...as far as he dared. that is clearly not as much as he used to be able to do back in the good old hog days of 2007 and 2009. in 2010, remember, he also refilled on the last rest day and got an immediate boost up tourmalet -- however, a couple of days later he came completely unglued in the itt giving a drastically subpar performance (or is that more what he would naturally do?).

i have been completely consistent in constantly saying that contadope is doping -- it's all he knows and -- frankly -- it may be the only way he can get the results we have come to expect.

despite my explanation of my refill day thread opening post -- you clearly are too willfully stupid or too humorless to get it. both contadope and schlecks topped off their blood on the rest day and i made a connection with their ironic tweets at the time. i just don't understand how anyone could misunderstand that post...but, hell, we're in the clinic, and there are even stupid and humorless people here too, I guess.

i have been very clear where i stand.

you have instead chosen to misrepresent what i have written at every chance.

consider this the last time you get a response from me.

 

[T_S_A_R]

In the Evans/Schleck group who did the majority of the pacing on Alpe d'Huez?

what % of difference do you think making the pace on the alpe d'huez makes?

 

[BYOP88]

More than getting a "lift", otherwise why was Andy asking Evans to work if it takes no extra effort to ride at the front, why do riders avoid where possible working on the front on climbs?

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

please don't misrepresent what i have said. all along i have said that contadope is pushing the bio passport as far as he can risk it. i said that in the other thread and i said here too and you immediately ignore that.

it is not -- is he doping or is he not.

it is how much is he able to dope?

i don't doubt for a second that contadope doped on the final rest day, had a top off, refill, etc...as far as he dared. that is clearly not as much as he used to be able to do back in the good old hog days of 2007 and 2009. in 2010, remember, he also refilled on the last rest day and got an immediate boost up tourmalet -- however, a couple of days later he came completely unglued in the itt giving a drastically subpar performance (or is that more what he would naturally do?).

i have been completely consistent in constantly saying that contadope is doping -- it's all he knows and -- frankly -- it may be the only way he can get the results we have come to expect.

despite my explanation (where i stated that some clearly were being willfully stupid or humorless) of my refill day thread opening post -- you clearly are too stupid or too humorless to get it. both contadope and schlecks topped off their blood on the rest day and i made a connection with their ironic tweets at the time. i just don't understand how anyone could misunderstand that post...but, hell, we're in the clinic, and there are even stupid and humorless people here too, I guess.

i have been very clear in where i stand.

you have instead chosen to misrepresent what i have written at every chance.

That is a pretty pathetic attempt to weasel out of what you have written.

I like how you can conveniently explain everything that happens. Contador rides well one day then that was the result of a blood refill. He rides badly a few days later and that is a sign of how he would have ridden without doping.

You and Big Boat should get together. With his analysis of unnatural power levels and your all knowing insight into blood doping, you could put Dr. Ferrari out of business. You two could set up your own coaching service. Move over Carmichael. There is a new sheriff in town.

 

[VoidSix]

Everyone is doping. This thread is idiotic.

 

[BYOP88]

Everyone is doping. This thread is idiotic.

I'm guessing you'll be reposting that in every doping thread, then?

Without checking your posts, I'd guess you're a Schleck fan?

 

[gerrans for the win]

when andy sweat hits the ground, it turns ants into transformers,

 

[VoidSix]

I'm guessing you'll be reposting that in every doping thread, then?

Without checking your posts, I'd guess you're a Schleck fan?

Not posting everywhere. Just thought it was funny people woild accuse the Schlecks of doping but not anyone else. I dont thibk you realize the advantage doping entails. If Andy and Frank were doping and no one else was, they'd be ten percent up in the overall. But sure, yeah, Cuddles isn't on anything. He just has the worst cycling form of any GT contender ever and manages despite his inefficiency to stick with Awndy and Contador. Must be clean.

 

[BYOP88]

Not posting everywhere. Just thought it was funny people woild accuse the Schlecks of doping but not anyone else. I dont thibk you realize the advantage doping entails. If Andy and Frank were doping and no one else was, they'd be ten percent up in the overall. But sure, yeah, Cuddles isn't on anything. He just has the worst cycling form of any GT contender ever and manages despite his inefficiency to stick with Awndy and Contador. Must be clean.

Seems a little hypocritical to only come to a thread about riders you like and declaring it "idiotic", why not the other threads in this sub-forum? Oh and if you looked back a few posts you'll see where I stand on doping.....They're all doping.

 

[sportzchick]

Seems a little hypocritical to only come to a thread about riders you like and declaring it "idiotic", why not the other threads in this sub-forum? Oh and if you looked back a few posts you'll see where I stand on doping.....They're all doping.

Exactly!

Im resigned to the fact they all are and neither the ICU or the fans care....unless its a chance to sink the boot in to someone they dont

 

[The Hitch]

Exactly!

Im resigned to the fact they all are and neither the ICU or the fans care....unless its a chance to sink the boot in to someone they dont

Wow. Me and you have had our differences but ill say that you impressed me with this mature post.

 

[Dallas_]

top up please

This thread is idiotic.

Have to disagree with your opinion.

To me, this thread has been very interesting. The various opinions and discussion have been excellent.

Chargers? .... I opine that top ups are on their menu.
.

 

[greenedge]

But sure, yeah, Cuddles isn't on anything. He just has the worst cycling form of any GT contender ever and manages despite his inefficiency to stick with Awndy and Contador. Must be clean.

Even saying cuddles was on drugs and everyone else was Cadel has peaked for this race. He does not have bad form as shown by winning T-A/ Romandie ( all season consistent ) He would have done the Ardennes as well. Shleck has won jack so you can be a bit (suspiscious) of that. Contador is an exceptional rider who peaked for the Giro and had a knee injury, so therefore it was logical that he would improve.

Don't just lash out and say that, they might not be on drugs and Cadel has had good excuses for other years failures. I don't believe the Shlecks are on drugs and i don't think Cadel and Contador are either though Contador might have last year.

 

[sniper]

Obviously, Frandy are doped, but not (yet) to the eyeballs.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Obviously, Frandy are doped, but not (yet) to the eyeballs.

They need to send some more money for training plans, or perhaps spend some time in the 'wind tunnel working on their positioning'. That said, maybe training harder, higher cadence, cancer and riding the whole route before hand is all that it takes?