The 'Super Worlds' discussion thread: Did it work?

[awavey]

It would be worse if I had to listen to British commentators the whole time, because going by what I happened to hear Hannah Storm say (on French broadcast) at the end of one of the races yesterday, you had the tooting about how many medals England (or other countries) captured across the combined disciplines. That's bad enough in the Olympics, but these are not national teams for all the disciplines, so there's no reason the road cycling team would have any connection to BMX. This is not so much an issue with the different events happening at the same time/place, but how that might change the perception of the relevance and value of each subdiscipline. Yes, they all are under UCI and they all involve equipment with frames and wheels, but that doesn't mean they fit together. Alpine and Nordic skiing are both under FIS and both involved skiing on snow, but their world's are combined.

sounds like a Beeb thing, (I only watched the road race for the uninterupted coverage) I dont recall hearing them mention medals tables on Eurosport that often.

and technically the GB road cycling team are connected with the BMX team and the MTBers, and the paracycling, and all the other arms of cycling involved in the UK, because they all fall under British Cycling/TeamGB auspices and funding streams

 

[Sciatic]

sounds like a Beeb thing, (I only watched the road race for the uninterupted coverage) I dont recall hearing them mention medals tables on Eurosport that often.

and technically the GB road cycling team are connected with the BMX team and the MTBers, and the paracycling, and all the other arms of cycling involved in the UK, because they all fall under British Cycling/TeamGB auspices and funding streams

Thanks for the info about the way British national team is connected. I don't think that's the case in many countries, but perhaps I'm just ignorant?

 

[awavey]

Thanks for the info about the way British national team is connected. I don't think that's the case in many countries, but perhaps I'm just ignorant?

it wouldnt surprise me that BCs setup is possibly unique in this case, certainly the way its funded is probably unique, and there did use to be separate federations and associations for each discipline in the UK.

but there were always squabbles about funding and who was really in charge as is often the case with organisations in the UK where there is sometimes overlap, and eventually when it all came to a head, they were all absorbed into this "new" setup called British Cycling whose role became to adminster for all aspects of cycle sport in the UK, even though youd have to say their focus is predominantly track based, and the other disciplines dont get much look in it feels like, but they are part of one and the same organisation.

ISTR the BMX federation werent as keen on the move initially, though it ultimately led to one of the ambitions being achieved of getting BMX recognised as a sport for the Olympics and a decent stream of guaranteed funding, which is based on their medal success at world championships and olympics level.

 

[ManicJack]

Yeah good points. Every 4 years hosted at a place with the terrain and facilities seems like a good call.

Name the next potential location.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Not a lot of places have the infrastructure or terrain needed to host so many different kind of races.

Say Leuven wants to host the Worlds like 2021. Where would they do the downhill? Or Rwanda? Can they have world class velodromes to use?

Good point; Belgium is an obvious candidate, but do they have a Downhill track? Martin Maes must have started somewhere.....I'm guessing somewhere near Houffalize, which has previously hosted XC World Cups in the old Grundig 90s days.

 

[Volderke]

Not a lot of places have the infrastructure or terrain needed to host so many different kind of races.

Say Leuven wants to host the Worlds like 2021. Where would they do the downhill? Or Rwanda? Can they have world class velodromes to use?

The Ardennes is full of downhills, 1-2 hrs from Leuven. Same in Rwanda actually.

While I don't know about velodromes in Rwanda, we have 2 world class velodromes in Belgium:
Eddy Merckx in Ghent and a brand new one in Zolder near the race circuit: https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2023/0...p-sporten-en-wielrennen-in-de-velodroom-in-h/ , and if they want to, they can hold track events in Antwerp (Sportpaleis) as well:

Other places that can hold the 'super' WC in terms of infrastructure (just from the top of my head, thinking about indoor velodromes that can hold big UCI track events):
Bogota, Aguascalientes, Rio de Janeiro (built for Olympics), Quebec, Melbourne, Plovdiv, Beijing, Bordeaux (or even Paris in France, not that far from Vosges for downhill), Frankfurt, Athens (if the track is still OK), Hong Kong, Jakarta, Brescia, many in Japan, Astana, N-Zealand, Lima, one in Norway, one in Portugal, Cape Town, Palma de Mallorca and Madrid, Grenchen (near the UCI HQ), Turkey has one, there is one near LA and last (not an exhaustive list, only the obvious) even Trinidad and Tobago have one.
I omitted Russia, Belarus (geopolitical), Netherlands (no mountains or they have to use VAM berg for downhill or find something that is very short in the area of Amstel Gold Race).

So that's >25 venues, and with one WC every 4 years, we're good for the next 100 years as long as the worms don't eat all the fir wood of the tracks.

 

[Ricco']

The Ardennes is full of downhills, 1-2 hrs from Leuven. Same in Rwanda actually.

Is there any offroad trail in Belgium with at least 413m of height difference with +10% average gradient? That's the stats for Lenzerheide, the shortest course of the season.

And regarding velodromes, of that list, at least in Portugal the velodrome wouldn't be able to host the Worlds. While it's a good place for youth categories the facility wasn't built to receive the amount of spectators a world elite championship receives.

 

[Volderke]

Is there any offroad trail in Belgium with at least 413m of height difference with +10% average gradient? That's the stats for Lenzerheide, the shortest course of the season.

And regarding velodromes, of that list, at least in Portugal the velodrome wouldn't be able to host the Worlds. While it's a good place for youth categories the facility wasn't built to receive the amount of spectators a world elite championship receives.

No, there isn’t 10% with 413m of altitude difference, so I fear riders will have to climb back up a bit

 

[carolina]

And regarding velodromes, of that list, at least in Portugal the velodrome wouldn't be able to host the Worlds. While it's a good place for youth categories the facility wasn't built to receive the amount of spectators a world elite championship receives.

And I don't think there are enough hotels in the area to receive so many people.

 

[awavey]

Name the next potential location.

I thought Haute-Savoie had been announced as the next "super" one, Id imagine America would be after that. maybe it will follow the Olympics around

 

[roundabout]

I thought Haute-Savoie had been announced as the next "super" one, Id imagine America would be after that. maybe it will follow the Olympics around

yep

The UCI Congress approves the institution’s Agenda 2030; the second edition of the UCI Cycling World Championships will take place in Haute-Savoie (France)

The 191st Congress of the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) was held today in Wollongong, Australia, in parallel with the 2022 UCI Road World Championships.

www.uci.org

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yea, afraid that the Downhill is going to be the main sticking block and it will eliminate a number of traditional cycling nations from being able to realistically host, including the Netherlands, Belgium and Denmark (possibly also Luxembourg?) as well as limiting the places in countries like France (where some of the most traditional cycling areas like Brétagne and the Vendée are too flat) that can host too. Any country can build a facility for XCO, for BMX, for track and indoor cycling, and have areas that they can put road races, but somewhere big enough to have a genuine downhill will be the challenge, because it's a lot harder to create something big enough and challenging enough for that - let's face it also, this is supposed to be a World Championships, so a pretty nothing course is also going to be a major disappointment for the competitors and spectators of that discipline too - like if they made the World Elite Men's Road Race 140km to better accommodate BMX or something like that, it just wouldn't feel worthy of the World title, you know?

It's the same problem as is why some of the most traditional wintersport nations in the world have never hosted a Winter Olympics - Sweden, Finland - and the areas of others that have been able to host have been quite geographically specific such as Russia hosting in what is actually the sunniest part of the country in 2014 or all the Canadian hosts being on the far western end of the country - the need to include all of the Alpine disciplines (especially as the downhill is one of the most prestigious events of the entire Winter Olympics) requires mountains of sufficient size and steepness that Sweden and Finland simply do not have the scope to provide them. Hell, even Québec doesn't, and had to propose an event where the downhill would see an outrun into the frozen St Lawrence River.

 

[Nick2413]

I don’t normally watch much besides road events but I ended up watching quite a bit of track and some MTB this year. I think the loud spotlight on everything being all at once helped. When it’s all separated there is probably less crossover viewership by the typical fan who prefers one discipline, I’d think.

I like the calendar position. Later in the year feels past peak for most riders and this keeps the momentum going between Tour and Vuelta.

 

[Breezy1985]

Absolutely brilliant and I will miss the non road events this time next year.

Mens road race needs to be at the end not the start though. That would be my only but quite big complaint.

 

[Gigs_98]

Yea, afraid that the Downhill is going to be the main sticking block and it will eliminate a number of traditional cycling nations from being able to realistically host, including the Netherlands, Belgium and Denmark (possibly also Luxembourg?) as well as limiting the places in countries like France (where some of the most traditional cycling areas like Brétagne and the Vendée are too flat) that can host too. Any country can build a facility for XCO, for BMX, for track and indoor cycling, and have areas that they can put road races, but somewhere big enough to have a genuine downhill will be the challenge, because it's a lot harder to create something big enough and challenging enough for that - let's face it also, this is supposed to be a World Championships, so a pretty nothing course is also going to be a major disappointment for the competitors and spectators of that discipline too - like if they made the World Elite Men's Road Race 140km to better accommodate BMX or something like that, it just wouldn't feel worthy of the World title, you know?

It's the same problem as is why some of the most traditional wintersport nations in the world have never hosted a Winter Olympics - Sweden, Finland - and the areas of others that have been able to host have been quite geographically specific such as Russia hosting in what is actually the sunniest part of the country in 2014 or all the Canadian hosts being on the far western end of the country - the need to include all of the Alpine disciplines (especially as the downhill is one of the most prestigious events of the entire Winter Olympics) requires mountains of sufficient size and steepness that Sweden and Finland simply do not have the scope to provide them. Hell, even Québec doesn't, and had to propose an event where the downhill would see an outrun into the frozen St Lawrence River.

Not that I disagree with your point or anything, I just wanted to note that Sweden absolutely has the mountains to host Olympic games. They have hosted alpine skiing world championships multiple times in Åre and those are the events requiring the most mountainous terrain. It is quite far from any big city though, but it's not like that still matters too much for winter olympics nowadays.

 

[Breezy1985]

Yea, afraid that the Downhill is going to be the main sticking block and it will eliminate a number of traditional cycling nations from being able to realistically host, including the Netherlands, Belgium and Denmark (possibly also Luxembourg?) as well as limiting the places in countries like France (where some of the most traditional cycling areas like Brétagne and the Vendée are too flat) that can host too. Any country can build a facility for XCO, for BMX, for track and indoor cycling, and have areas that they can put road races, but somewhere big enough to have a genuine downhill will be the challenge, because it's a lot harder to create something big enough and challenging enough for that - let's face it also, this is supposed to be a World Championships, so a pretty nothing course is also going to be a major disappointment for the competitors and spectators of that discipline too - like if they made the World Elite Men's Road Race 140km to better accommodate BMX or something like that, it just wouldn't feel worthy of the World title, you know?

It's the same problem as is why some of the most traditional wintersport nations in the world have never hosted a Winter Olympics - Sweden, Finland - and the areas of others that have been able to host have been quite geographically specific such as Russia hosting in what is actually the sunniest part of the country in 2014 or all the Canadian hosts being on the far western end of the country - the need to include all of the Alpine disciplines (especially as the downhill is one of the most prestigious events of the entire Winter Olympics) requires mountains of sufficient size and steepness that Sweden and Finland simply do not have the scope to provide them. Hell, even Québec doesn't, and had to propose an event where the downhill would see an outrun into the frozen St Lawrence River.

The Paris Olympics is gonna have events in Martinique and French Guiana. So the Paris (or wherever) Worlds could just host a few events elsewhere.

 

[Wyndbrook]

The Paris Olympics is gonna have events in Martinique and French Guiana. So the Paris (or wherever) Worlds could just host a few events elsewhere.

Maybe as a non Olympic sport downhill could be held separately if necessary.
It's not completely a new idea, Worlds always used to be road and track held in at same venue and time, until 96 I believe.
The only difference is the addition of 'new disciplines' in mountain bike, BMX and indoor.

Paris is also not hosting the surfing next year either, just down the road in Tahiti.
I'm surprised , the west coast of France generally has conditions comparably to that in Japan.
Or even better build an artificial venue, the world surfing championships already include a round using a purpose built wave.