The 'Super Worlds' discussion thread: Did it work?

[Kaptain Kool]

I watched the same events I would have watched if held separately (Road Races but not any of the TTs, XCO and XCC). I'm sure it makes a difference for people attending in person but meaningless to viewers from afar.

For me, the big takeaway was learning that Scotland is a province of Britain. I guess I was misled into thinking it was a real country after seeing Scotland teams play in soccer and rugby World Cups. Nope. It's basically like Ontario is to Canada or Romandie to Switzerland. Live and learn.

 

[King Boonen]

I watched the same events I would have watched if held separately (Road Races but not any of the TTs, XCO and XCC). I'm sure it makes a difference for people attending in person but meaningless to viewers from afar.

For me, the big takeaway was learning that Scotland is a province of Britain. I guess I was misled into thinking it was a real country after seeing Scotland teams play in soccer and rugby World Cups. Nope. It's basically like Ontario is to Canada or Romandie to Switzerland. Live and learn.

Yeah, the UK can be confusing for people and it's not helped by the fact country isn't a singular definition. It's not really like Ontario, as the UK isn't a federation, although this was considered I think before devolution of power was pursued. It's also not like Romandie either, which I don't think has any official distinction and includes several cantons, both whole and part.

It's also not helped by the fact that the UK competes in some sporting events as a whole, and others as seperate nations.

 

[Sciatic]

If it means always having the road world’s in August, then please no more combined WCs. It’s going to feel like there’s a huge void after the Vuelta with only the Italian classics left to look forward to in Sept-Oct.

 

[ManicJack]

Not sure why they'd not eventually do this every year. Watched Elite Men's RR and TT, MTB XCO, U23 men's RR, and Women's Elite RR. Great.

Might be great for us watching at home, but I've talked to friends at USA Cycling that were there working in various roles from mechanic, athlete support up to administrative management roles and they all said it was logistically a nightmare. Some of the biggest complaints were centered around the track with para being included. I guess that was a sh*t show.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The schedule still needs some work. Tp finals one day before the Men's elite RR and the Ip on the same day, that doesn't work for me, brother!

I say merging the normal cycling WCs with the respective paracycling ones is a really good idea, mainly for track cycling.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Personally, I thought it was great. I love cycling, I actively watch every discipline bar BMX. If you take this place as an example, to my perception there is more traffic going on in the MTB and track boards than usually would be the case during a world championship, so that's a plus. I really liked the date too. August seems a more logical place for me on the calendar than September.

For the riders themselves, I understand if things are too packed. Pippo and Pidcock now had to set priorities and choose one discipline over the other, not a situation we want, as they are part of the elite in both. There is room for improvement in that regard.

The only frustration I had was the interwoven disciplines of track cycling and para-track cycling. I think it's great that para-track got some attention, but for further events I would give the morning and evenings to track cycling, and the afternoons to para-track. The great thing about the track is that its just event after event after event non-stop. This time around there was a Keirin, followed by C2 IP, followed by an omnium event, followed by an A5 sprint. That's not great for viewership.

Agree, but I'd switch para-track and track cycling around. Most people watch on the afternoons, especially on weekdays, so you can't have them just skip the elite IP, TP, Omnium, points races etc. in the mornings and evenings. You wanna maximize viewership for those disciplines that people actually actively tune in for in the afternoons.

And yes, they really need to work on their scheduling if this is the norm.

 

[DNP-Old]

Agree, but I'd switch para-track and track cycling around. Most people watch on the afternoons, especially on weekdays, so you can't have them just skip the elite IP, TP, Omnium, points races etc. in the mornings and evenings. You wanna maximize viewership for those disciplines that people actually actively tune in for in the afternoons.

And yes, they really need to work on their scheduling if this is the norm.

Except that can't work, since there has to be a sufficient period of rest between endurance elements, like the pursuit. That is why UCI track cycling is always divided in morning and evening sessions, with the afternoons off between ~ 14:00 and ~18:00. Sticking para-track in said slot would be the perfect solution.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Except that can't work, since there has to be a sufficient period of rest between endurance elements, like the pursuit. That is why UCI track cycling is always divided in morning and evening sessions, with the afternoons off between ~ 14:00 and ~18:00. Sticking para-track in said slot would be the perfect solution.

For some reason I mixed up afternoons and evenings.

My point just is that I just want the normal track cycling to take place in the evenings after people get some from work and so on. So we agree.

 

[Wyndbrook]

If it means always having the road world’s in August, then please no more combined WCs. It’s going to feel like there’s a huge void after the Vuelta with only the Italian classics left to look forward to in Sept-Oct.

I think the August date seems to the the biggest point of concern, perhaps it may vary dependant on host country and weather expectations. Worth remembering road worlds was always held in August until relatively recent, Vuelta started in April as well, but not suggesting that happens again.
But once every four years seems good to me.
I'm a fan of road, track and mountain biking and there was almost too much for me.
BMX and the last day of track are going to be future viewing for me in the coming weeks.

 

[Wyndbrook]

BBC viewing figures for Saturday downhills was over one million. Potentially a record for the discipline.
Cynical fans may say that's a little ironic as UCI awarded the mountain bike world cup to Disney, GCN etc after it was always free on Red Bull.

 

[awavey]

For some reason I mixed up afternoons and evenings.

My point just is that I just want the normal track cycling to take place in the evenings after people get some from work and so on. So we agree.

problem is it feels then like you devaluing the para-track cycling events, and the whole point of a combined championship is not to do that, its to promote them on an equal basis so they need to take part in evening sessions just as much as the able bodied riders.

How you pick which events, I dont know as it becomes a scheduling thing because you need to give the endurance & sprint riders adequate recovery time between rounds, heats etc, and thats why I said I dont know how you solve the track cycling when its setup like this, I suspect theyll dump things like the points race, or even put the madison back on the chopping block again, just because those races take the most amount of time out of the schedule.

 

[awavey]

Might be great for us watching at home, but I've talked to friends at USA Cycling that were there working in various roles from mechanic, athlete support up to administrative management roles and they all said it was logistically a nightmare. Some of the biggest complaints were centered around the track with para being included. I guess that was a sh*t show.

when I did 4 days (I skipped the first day) in the velodrome back at the 2016 worlds, I was completely frazzled by the end of it, because its full on the whole time with very long days, not the most comfortable of conditions or environment to be in all day, especially for those staff on the team who cant really leave the velodrome and have to be on site basically the whole time, at least some of the riders can escape back to their hotel rooms to break up their day and aid recovery, if you are working, its basically a 13-14hr day minimum assuming everything runs smoothly.

I cant begin to imagine what a 7 day stint was like for team staff to support the track champs alone, though of course some of the teams probably share mechanics/sogniuers/media/nutrionists etc with their road team programmes as normally there wouldnt be a clash or need to support both at the same time.

So I totally get those complaints,and why Im not sure the idea of the super worlds is such a great idea, it looked good superficially but behind the scenes of those working on it, I bet most are glad its finished.

 

[Valv.Piti]

problem is it feels then like you devaluing the para-track cycling events, and the whole point of a combined championship is not to do that, its to promote them on an equal basis so they need to take part in evening sessions just as much as the able bodied riders.

How you pick which events, I dont know as it becomes a scheduling thing because you need to give the endurance & sprint riders adequate recovery time between rounds, heats etc, and thats why I said I dont know how you solve the track cycling when its setup like this, I suspect theyll dump things like the points race, or even put the madison back on the chopping block again, just because those races take the most amount of time out of the schedule.

You're right, but this is a hard topic. I don't know a single rider out of these para-athletes, so it doesn't really excite me. What excites me is the fastest riders and especially watching the riders I know from the road. I don't really want to watch a 100 m para sprint in track & field, but on the other hand the 100 m for the very best is always incredibly exciting to me. I want to watch the best and fastest riders, and in turn that's probably also why I like watching male racing better than female racing - simply because I know that this human being is the absolute best and fastest in the world and no single human being on planet earth is better. I don't get the same feeling watching para, for example. It ain't politically correct and what have you, but that's my feelings about it all and there's no point hiding or sugarcoating that.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Please just keep all the worlds as normal. Cyclocross in early February, Mtb whenever (I don't remember when is it normally, but if it was on yesterday, without any big road races on, I would watch it ), roads in September, and tracks in March ( I think?).

I liked the course and crowds in Glasgow but if it was a normal worlds in september it wouldn't be any different.

There was literally an elite RR on yesterday and you were commenting in the thread about it.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

There was literally an elite RR on yesterday and you were commenting in the thread about it.

Yeah I know. What I meant was that if the world road race was in september, so there was no elite road races on yesterday and just the mtb, I would watch mtb, and get more into the sport. Because there would not be womans road race as an alternative. But there was so much worlds cycling on in the last 10 days, I just watch the road racing, and didn't watch any mtb. Because I can't just sit at home and watch cycling all week.

 

[red_flanders]

Might be great for us watching at home, but I've talked to friends at USA Cycling that were there working in various roles from mechanic, athlete support up to administrative management roles and they all said it was logistically a nightmare. Some of the biggest complaints were centered around the track with para being included. I guess that was a sh*t show.

Thanks. Not surprising that such a big new event had some logistical challenges. Hopefully they’re the kind which can be worked out.

 

[ManicJack]

when I did 4 days (I skipped the first day) in the velodrome back at the 2016 worlds, I was completely frazzled by the end of it, because its full on the whole time with very long days, not the most comfortable of conditions or environment to be in all day, especially for those staff on the team who cant really leave the velodrome and have to be on site basically the whole time.

Out of accomodation for the needs of the Para athletes, which is obviously understandable, they were given almost the entirety of the infield and the elite team's support was scattered all over the place away from track. Some were not even in the same building I heard. During training sessions, let alone race sessions, when mechanics are tweaking bikes pretty regularly, you can't have work stations 200m from the track. I guarantee that won't happen again.

 

[Cookster15]

A loved it. Not often we can be effusive of praise of the UCI, but this time they got it right.

 

[Pantani_lives]

It was super. I feared it would be too much to follow, but I ended up seeing more events than in a normal year. You could check every morning when the most interesting finals were. It was over ten years ago that I saw the mountainbike downhill, and it was the first time I saw the WC short track MB.

The only disadvantage is that riders like Pidcock and Ganna missed the road race. So I wouldn't be in favor of including cyclocross. The second half of September would be the best period.

 

[ManicJack]

Thanks. Not surprising that such a big new event had some logistical challenges. Hopefully they’re the kind which can be worked out.

The number of additional support staff that had to be hired on contract was a HUGE expense for USAC When you consider athlete support staff (physio, soungier, chef, drivers, vehicle rental, etc for each discipline that is a lot of people and they don't work for free. I'm sure the smaller budget federations, including USAC will revolt against this configuration happening again.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I was on holiday and could only watch very little. Fire Lappartient, please

Seriously, though, September is a better time slot.

 

[Ricco']

Not sure why they'd not eventually do this every year. Watched Elite Men's RR and TT, MTB XCO, U23 men's RR, and Women's Elite RR. Great.

Not a lot of places have the infrastructure or terrain needed to host so many different kind of races.

Say Leuven wants to host the Worlds like 2021. Where would they do the downhill? Or Rwanda? Can they have world class velodromes to use?

 

[Sciatic]

It would be worse if I had to listen to British commentators the whole time, because going by what I happened to hear Hannah Storm say (on French broadcast) at the end of one of the races yesterday, you had the tooting about how many medals England (or other countries) captured across the combined disciplines. That's bad enough in the Olympics, but these are not national teams for all the disciplines, so there's no reason the road cycling team would have any connection to BMX. This is not so much an issue with the different events happening at the same time/place, but how that might change the perception of the relevance and value of each subdiscipline. Yes, they all are under UCI and they all involve equipment with frames and wheels, but that doesn't mean they fit together. Alpine and Nordic skiing are both under FIS and both involved skiing on snow, but their world's are combined.

I think the main impetus for sports Jamboree-type productions is from a marketing/TV money push, hoping to pick up on some of the viewership boost that networks get from non-typical fans during the Olympics. You might think that's all great, but don't assume it will improve the sports' (in this case, road cycling) status and financial viability.

 

[gunara]

It just confused me. And I haven't recovered.

 

[red_flanders]

Not a lot of places have the infrastructure or terrain needed to host so many different kind of races.

Say Leuven wants to host the Worlds like 2021. Where would they do the downhill? Or Rwanda? Can they have world class velodromes to use?

Yeah good points. Every 4 years hosted at a place with the terrain and facilities seems like a good call.