The three biggest losers (teams) after the three first monuments

[El Pistolero]

I could totally see Anton kill him self on the descend in Lombardia. Quite literally.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

What ambitions/expectations did Euskaltel have in either race? It's always joked about that they bail at the first feed stop anyway so how is this year's performance a disappointment?

That's why I tried to be careful in separating the losers from the disappointments. Deferring focus and efficacy from this race inherently makes them losers at the classics. There's nothing wrong with that, they're a good team otherwise, but they lost out in the absolute sense of the term.

 

[greenedge]

but honestly, did anybody expect anything major or serious from Euskaltel, Astana or the Shack in these three monuments? From my perspective, they performed as expected, and I would not dub them losers. It was clear before it started that they have no say for the podium.

Thought astana with S.Clarke were attacking. That's right anotther Aussie. Rast did well in Roubaix, and they had McEwan for sprints so they at least tried. Thought Europcar failed a bit without Voeckler.

 

[The Hitch]

I could totally see Anton kill him self on the descend in Lombardia. Quite literally.

Anton doesnt go fast enough to kill himself.

At his pace, hell get a few bruises at best

Now Samu on the other hand...

 

[nvpacchi]

I could totally see Anton kill him self on the descend in Lombardia. Quite literally.

LOL probably, Samu would try to pace him down and end up blowing him away

 

[Jancouver]

NetApp is the biggest disappointment for me this far. Dont think they even got Top 10 in any respectable race. They are rated 36th in team CQ standings.

 

[danjo007]

Thought astana with S.Clarke were attacking. That's right anotther Aussie. Rast did well in Roubaix, and they had McEwan for sprints so they at least tried. Thought Europcar failed a bit without Voeckler.

indeed.
simon clarke did a pretty good job for so little experience - pity no one else from astana stood out.
another aussie rookie, mitchell docker for skill , did pretty good too.

failures imo, were katusha and bmc.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Anton doesnt go fast enough to kill himself.

At his pace, hell get a few bruises at best

Now Samu on the other hand...

Can someone show me footage of why Samu is regarded as such a 'brilliant' descender?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Can someone show me footage of why Samu is regarded as such a 'brilliant' descender?

Maybe because lack of footage??? He doesn't show up on some highlight reel ala Jens Voigt at the Tour ... no dis to Jens who I like.

 

[rxgqgxnyfz]

but honestly, did anybody expect anything major or serious from Euskaltel, Astana or the Shack in these three monuments? From my perspective, they performed as expected, and I would not dub them losers. It was clear before it started that they have no say for the podium.

This.

If anything, Shack and Astana performed better than they expected themselves with Rast and Vaitkus (also with Stangeli and Gurov being quite visible for most the race).

On the other hand outperforming zero expectation is easy.

Katyusha on the other hand who had a very good classics team for this race and pretender for podium...

 

[Michielveedeebee]

This.

If anything, Shack and Astana performed better than they expected themselves with Rast and Vaitkus (also with Stangeli and Gurov being quite visible for most the race).

On the other hand outperforming zero expectation is easy.

Katyusha on the other hand who had a very good classics team for this race and pretender for podium...

Very witty sir, very witty indeed

 

[Mambo95]

Can someone show me footage of why Samu is regarded as such a 'brilliant' descender?

A lot of his reputation stems from this stage of the Vuelta:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_xMfifw6Jw

 

[movingtarget]

I would rather see another French or Belgian team ride in the Paris Roubaix than the Euskaltel team. A team that goes into the race with zero expectations or interest. Correspondingly I would prefer to see another Spanish team ride in the Vuelta instead of a team full of Belgian sprinters. But the rules are what they are.

 

[nvpacchi]

Can someone show me footage of why Samu is regarded as such a 'brilliant' descender?

Also check out 2006 GdL. He breaks away from a break of about 10, and bridges up to Fabian Wegmann who is 15 seconds ahead in a seemingly effortless manner.

Unfortunately Bettini was too far up the road to be caught

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZUwQSQHiKs&feature=related

Samu's descent starts around 10:30...This whole race was so epic, Bettini's emotional finish, Wegmann's anguished face as he tries to keep pace with him...unbelievable finish

 

[MADRAZO]

1. Leopard must clearly be the biggest losers so far. Cancellara was huge favourite (and the strongest) in two monuments and only got (in his eyes fairly worthless) podiums and besides this the team as a whole was a complete failure and the reason for his lack of wins.

Lotto, Team Sky, BMC, Katushya, Vacansoleil and Quick Step are propably not satisfied too, but I dont think they are realisticly that far behind the expectations. And also there have been some bad luck involved.

 

[Archibald]

interesting all this ragging on BMC - did anyone actually expect them to win one?
Ballan was never going to get there, nor Hincapie, and Van Avermat did animate MSR in the lead bunch for a bit towards the end...
You really weren't going to get much more than what they delivered - unless my expectations of them are lower than the norm?

Same goes for Sky - I'd put Flecha in the same boat as Ballan: just not up there to be able to come away with it. G had a realistic pop at RvV, but Flecha made him wait, which is probably the biggest f*ck up of theirs...

 

[movingtarget]

interesting all this ragging on BMC - did anyone actually expect them to win one?
Ballan was never going to get there, nor Hincapie, and Van Avermat did animate MSR in the lead bunch for a bit towards the end...
You really weren't going to get much more than what they delivered - unless my expectations of them are lower than the norm?

Same goes for Sky - I'd put Flecha in the same boat as Ballan: just not up there to be able to come away with it. G had a realistic pop at RvV, but Flecha made him wait, which is probably the biggest f*ck up of theirs...

Pretty much agree. BMC have strong guys but they are short of a quality sprinter which means it would be hard to see BMC winning a bunch sprint or even a small group. Greg VA would be their only hope and he has become more of an all rounder than the sprinter he used to be. Uphill grinds are probably their only hope with Evans or maybe Greg VA. Ballan would probably have to break away to win against decent sprinters. I still think Evans is their best chance of winning an upcoming classic unless they play clever tactics and maybe get the right rider in a break. Ballan and VA have been in good form for the last few weeks.

 

[Angliru]

Maybe Euskaltel shouldn't be Pro Tour anymore then. I know I'll get some Spanish hate on me, but the team just doesn't look strong at all. Samu and Anton are great cyclists, but they just don't win a lot. I'll be happily proven wrong though as I'm a fan of both.

They have met all the criteria that is required to be a Pro Tour/World Tour (whatever the hell they're calling it now) team. They obviously win a enough or get enough decent finishes to meet what is needed make the grade.

 

[Angliru]

Quick Step won 5 GT stages last year, which is more than Euskaltel won (3).

Outside Spain, the Tour is all they're interested in (and maybe the Giro, this year).

I like them, but they they probably shouldn't be a ProTour team.

Are we forgetting their performances in the hilly classics?

 

[Mambo95]

They have met all the criteria that is required to be a Pro Tour/World Tour (whatever the hell they're calling it now) team. They obviously win a enough or get enough decent finishes to meet what is needed make the grade.

The question isn't so much whether EE deserve a ProTour licence, but rather whether them having one, and the obligations that entails, serves the best interests of either EE or many of the races?

 

[El Pistolero]

Are we forgetting their performances in the hilly classics?

The difference is that Quickstep next year will be able to buy a lot of good men.

While Euskaltel is limited in buying mostly Basques.

But yeah, right now Quickstep isn't really Pro Tour level for me, but I still think they're better than Euskaltel.

 

[Benotti69]

interesting all this ragging on BMC - did anyone actually expect them to win one?
Ballan was never going to get there, nor Hincapie, and Van Avermat did animate MSR in the lead bunch for a bit towards the end...
You really weren't going to get much more than what they delivered - unless my expectations of them are lower than the norm?

Same goes for Sky - I'd put Flecha in the same boat as Ballan: just not up there to be able to come away with it. G had a realistic pop at RvV, but Flecha made him wait, which is probably the biggest f*ck up of theirs...

as a senior rider would demand of a junior rider/domestique. Marc De Meyers won the paris-roubaix 1976 when his leader Freddy Maertens crashed out and he was given free rain, otherwise he would've had to work for Maertens and sacrifice any chance he might have had.

 

[Angliru]

The question isn't so much whether EE deserve a ProTour licence, but rather whether them having one, and the obligations that entails, serves the best interests of either EE or many of the races?

I don't see it as a fault of their own that they are obligated to compete in races that they have no interest in. Obviously being in the Pro Tour is in EE's best interest or they wouldn't be applying to be a part each year. They could quite easily settle for Pro Continental status but with the Tour as one of their primary objectives, an invitation would no longer be guaranteed. My point was I can't see how they can be considered "losers" in the first three monuments when their ambitions were so low. Being a loser would be aiming for a high placement in each event and not meeting that goal or even coming close. I'd imagine their goal in these races is for their riders to gain experience in these events with the exception of MSR where if Koldo Fernandez is competing, a top 10 or 15 would be good.

 

[Mambo95]

I don't see it as a fault of their own that they are obligated to compete in races that they have no interest in.

That's really the crux of the matter. There are failings in the ProTour system. Either there should be fewer licences (meaning more wildcards) or teams should be able to miss a few races.

And EE on the cobbles is the best example of those failings.


PS. I personally didn't call them 'losers', I specifically excluded them.

 

[Sparta]

The problem with this thread is that people overate massively the importance of your team in cycling. I'm not saying that the team isn't important but look at the races. Goss and Nuyens both won without any team whatsoever. Cancellara was got 3 podiums without a team and with everyone being horrendously unhelpful to him. Yes he probably would have won at least 1 of the races with a better team.

In RVV Sky, BMC + quickstep were the best teams by a long way then RAbo. none of these teams won because they didn't have a rider capable of finishing the job (particularly Sky and BMC and Rabo allthough you could argue sky screwed up by racing for Flecha).

Similarly HTC, Rabo and Sky all had the same tactics as Garmin in Paris Roubaix but Garmin won because van Summeren was stronger on the day than Bak, Tjanlingi and Hayman (was surprised he didn't have the strength to go with them).