The Tour Wild Cards

[stefrees]

I'd say Bozic has shown to be a serious contender in the sprints (apart from Cav, he can beat all of them) and while they don't have a GC threat (should they?) they do have a fair amount of climbing talent in their team.

true with the climbing, not gc but maybe challenge for polka. but sprintwise i think bozuc would be going for placings not winning. hes behind cav, hushovd, farrar, petacchi, EBH, friere

 

[Swingtop]

while i agree with your point, and id like to see vaconsoleil in the tour, i dont think they'll bring a serious contender in either the sprints or the mountains. attacking wise though theyll be up there

If Hoogerland is able to constrain himself and save his energy on the flat stages, I think he will be a top 10 contender in the mountains, maybe even better. Consider his performance in the Vuelta last year, even while ridiculously wasting strength during the first flat week.

I'm Dutch, but Vacansoleil takes the cake for me. I love seeing them attack, over and over, and bring results too. Skil, however, no dice. Kenny is a cult hero in the Netherlands and possibly beyond, and I loved their performance in the "waaier" stage of the Tour last year, but still, Skil pales in comparison to Vacansoleil. I think promises will be broken.

 

[blaxland]

I think the last spot will go to BMC...even though some others teams would animate the race.

 

[theyoungest]

bozuc would be going for placings not winning. hes behind cav, hushovd, farrar, petacchi, EBH, friere

Meh, behind Cav it's more or less up for grabs, IMO.

 

[taiwan]

Seems almost impossible to rank sprinters in this way. Quite possibly Greipel after Cavendish but we can't tell.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Part of the thing is that Vacansoleil has gone out of their way to get wildcards since they hit the scene. Last year they attacked everywhere, sponsored the tirreno in hopes of a giro invite and when that didn't come, they kept doing what they did: attack and win races where they could. In the Vuelta they filled our screen everyday, mountains, sprints and breakaway. Even in Lombardy they still had a guy in the breakaway and a top-5.
This year they just keep doing what they did. Mol in Qatar, Bozic in Bessege, Traksel in Kuurne... Plus a sponsorship of Paris-Nice.

It's a little biased, but his team gives spectators what they want.

BMC still has all to prove and they haven't actually show anything yet altough that probably will change the coming weeks/monyhs.
Evans would probably be solid if invited, but what would that add to the tour? His domestiques will probably be kept close to him and most of the big names on BMC will be a little worn out by that time.
Vacansoleil has proved to be willing and able to go at it everyday and bring serious contenders for sprints, breakaways and mountain stages. Also the start in Rotjeknor is in favor of them.

So, yes I am biased towards the Dutch team and no I don't care for Evans, but when it comes to it I just think Vacansoleil would add a lot more to the tour for us viewers to enjoy.

I agree with most of your post. Except Vacansoleil would really just be another breakaway team. Evans is at least a podium and in the 2nd group of gc favourites for the win (1st group - Contador, Schleck).

Sorry I got a a little carried away before I enjoyed watching Bozic and his vacansoleil mates in the vuelta. I'm kinda hoping now that evans can get a win in tirreno (at least a stage) and bmc with ballan can win Monte pasch Eroica this weekend. I think they are a far better team than what they showed this weekend in belgium.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I strongly agree with the notion that vasc. are miles ahead of skil. I like skil and as mentioned earlier kenny is a rider you gotta love and admire.

But the quality in teams, performances and mentality their is a big difference... in favor of vasc.

 

[craig1985]

wow is there really any chance that Garmin or Sky could be left out cold?

As likely as me going on a date with Miranda Kerr tomorrow night.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I think this thread should be sticky as it is a main theme for this season on the way teams peform in races and will change as the season goes along.

 

[Moondance]

I think this thread should be sticky as it is a main theme for this season on the way teams peform in races and will change as the season goes along.

Meh... We really don't need a whole bunch of stickies. If the conversation stays lively enough and we're actually going to continuously discuss who's most worthy this thread won't need a sticky.

On the other hand I'm not a fan when 17'867'340 threads pop up about a sigle, often unworthy, topic (e.g. Tour of California). Maybe on of out illustrious mods can rule on this.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I agree with most of your post. Except Vacansoleil would really just be another breakaway team. Evans is at least a podium and in the 2nd group of gc favourites for the win (1st group - Contador, Schleck).

If Evans is 'at least' a podium, but behind the group of Contador and Schleck, this means you are implying, nay, guaranteeing that, should BMC be invited, Evans will come third...? I remain unconvinced. The projected field for the Tour is very strong (with Contador, the Schlecks, Armstrong, two Liquigas guys, both Gesink and Menchov, Samuel Sánchez, VDV, Wiggins, Leipheimer, Vino, and potentially Sastre, Valverde and Evans - that's up to 16 guys to vie for the top 5 slots even before we get to any surprisingly good performers), and while Evans will have a chance, if he's been giving it his all trying to win the Giro in May (and I assume he'll have a go at the Ardennes if possible) we could well see the same burnout we saw from the likes of Sastre this year.

Vacansoleil might be 'just another breakaway team', but of the wildcards we are projecting, there aren't breakaway teams, unless you count Katyusha as one. Shack and Sky will both bring boredom, sitting in for a team leader who'll probably not challenge that much anyway. Garmin have Farrar for the sprints and Vande Velde to add another second- or third-tier GC candidate. Cervélo will have Thor and Heinrich for sprints and breakaways, while Sastre is also targeting the Giro, so if he even does the Tour he may not be in the best position for it. None of these teams are going to animate the race, so who is? I know, I know, Milram and the French teams. But wouldn't it be nice to see a bit of variety in it once in a while rather than another second tier GC candidate who will already have got a wildcard to the Giro anyway?

 

[Ferminal]

If Evans is 'at least' a podium, but behind the group of Contador and Schleck, this means you are implying, nay, guaranteeing that, should BMC be invited, Evans will come third...? I remain unconvinced. The projected field for the Tour is very strong (with Contador, the Schlecks, Armstrong, two Liquigas guys, both Gesink and Menchov, Samuel Sánchez, VDV, Wiggins, Leipheimer, Vino, and potentially Sastre, Valverde and Evans - that's up to 16 guys to vie for the top 5 slots even before we get to any surprisingly good performers), and while Evans will have a chance, if he's been giving it his all trying to win the Giro in May (and I assume he'll have a go at the Ardennes if possible) we could well see the same burnout we saw from the likes of Sastre this year.

Vacansoleil might be 'just another breakaway team', but of the wildcards we are projecting, there aren't breakaway teams, unless you count Katyusha as one. Shack and Sky will both bring boredom, sitting in for a team leader who'll probably not challenge that much anyway. Garmin have Farrar for the sprints and Vande Velde to add another second- or third-tier GC candidate. Cervélo will have Thor and Heinrich for sprints and breakaways, while Sastre is also targeting the Giro, so if he even does the Tour he may not be in the best position for it. None of these teams are going to animate the race, so who is? I know, I know, Milram and the French teams. But wouldn't it be nice to see a bit of variety in it once in a while rather than another second tier GC candidate who will already have got a wildcard to the Giro anyway?

He missed a word, I'm guessing it was "chance".

 

[TRDean]

I strongly agree with the notion that vasc. are miles ahead of skil. I like skil and as mentioned earlier kenny is a rider you gotta love and admire.

But the quality in teams, performances and mentality their is a big difference... in favor of vasc.

As a Skil fan I really have to agree with most of what everyone is saying...even though it kills me. To me the big difference between Vacansoleil and Skil is the team dynamic. Skil is a much younger team, dedicated to bringing riders along and making them into strong pros. Vacansoleil has a much older contingent, and has bought better riders. Not that either is wrong of course...just saying.

However, I think Skil had one of the better weekends of any team this past weekend. Curvers in the break all day Saturday and 3 riders in the top 25 with Veelers coming in at 9th...then the death march on Sunday...with van Hummel in at 17th. Just saying...the season is long. Also, Skil get into plenty of breaks as well. Let me ask...is there any chance that both make the Tour? Seeing as the start is in the Netherlands?

 

[Moondance]

As a Skil fan I really have to agree with most of what everyone is saying...even though it kills me. To me the big difference between Vacansoleil and Skil is the team dynamic. Skil is a much younger team, dedicated to bringing riders along and making them into strong pros. Vacansoleil has a much older contingent, and has bought better riders. Not that either is wrong of course...just saying.

However, I think Skil had one of the better weekends of any team this past weekend. Curvers in the break all day Saturday and 3 riders in the top 25 with Veelers coming in at 9th...then the death march on Sunday...with van Hummel in at 17th. Just saying...the season is long. Also, Skil get into plenty of breaks as well. Let me ask...is there any chance that both make the Tour? Seeing as the start is in the Netherlands?

No. Given that 22 teams are the max, and many teams have a contracual guarantee to ride, awarding spots to both Skil and Vacansoleil mean that they would have to decline a spot to one of Sky, Garmin, Radio Shack, Katusha or Cervelo (who are widely seen as being safe, and as much as I want to see Orange in the tour, losing one of those teams would be far worse) as well as rejecting both BMC and Saur.

 

[theyoungest]

To me the big difference between Vacansoleil and Skil is the team dynamic. Skil is a much younger team, dedicated to bringing riders along and making them into strong pros. Vacansoleil has a much older contingent, and has bought better riders. Not that either is wrong of course...just saying.

It's not like Vacansoleil is the Team Sky of Dutch cycling, in terms of "buying" strong riders. Guys like Hoogerland, Westra and --the latest to flourish-- Traksel were big talents in their younger years, mostly written off, and Vacansoleil gave them another chance. Skil could have done the same.

 

[TRDean]

It's not like Vacansoleil is the Team Sky of Dutch cycling, in terms of "buying" strong riders. Guys like Hoogerland, Westra and --the latest to flourish-- Traksel were big talents in their younger years, mostly written off, and Vacansoleil gave them another chance. Skil could have done the same.

Don't be a ***...I never said they couldn't...they are doing it differently. Guys like Hoogerland busting onto the scene...all season long...from start to finish...make me wonder. Also, Hoogerland isn't that old...

I also never said they were the Sky of Dutch cycling...so don't put words into my mouth junior.

 

[theyoungest]

Don't be a ***...I never said they couldn't...they are doing it differently. Guys like Hoogerland busting onto the scene...all season long...from start to finish...make me wonder. Also, Hoogerland isn't that old...

I also never said they were the Sky of Dutch cycling...so don't put words into my mouth junior.

Meant no offense... you sure do love Skil-Shimano. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[TRDean]

Meant no offense... you sure do love Skil-Shimano. Nothing wrong with that.

I do...and sorry for snapping. I really am...

I like Vacansoleil as well... but Skil has a special place for me.

 

[auscyclefan94]

If Evans is 'at least' a podium, but behind the group of Contador and Schleck, this means you are implying, nay, guaranteeing that, should BMC be invited, Evans will come third...? I remain unconvinced. The projected field for the Tour is very strong (with Contador, the Schlecks, Armstrong, two Liquigas guys, both Gesink and Menchov, Samuel Sánchez, VDV, Wiggins, Leipheimer, Vino, and potentially Sastre, Valverde and Evans - that's up to 16 guys to vie for the top 5 slots even before we get to any surprisingly good performers), and while Evans will have a chance, if he's been giving it his all trying to win the Giro in May (and I assume he'll have a go at the Ardennes if possible) we could well see the same burnout we saw from the likes of Sastre this year.

Vacansoleil might be 'just another breakaway team', but of the wildcards we are projecting, there aren't breakaway teams, unless you count Katyusha as one. Shack and Sky will both bring boredom, sitting in for a team leader who'll probably not challenge that much anyway. Garmin have Farrar for the sprints and Vande Velde to add another second- or third-tier GC candidate. Cervélo will have Thor and Heinrich for sprints and breakaways, while Sastre is also targeting the Giro, so if he even does the Tour he may not be in the best position for it. None of these teams are going to animate the race, so who is? I know, I know, Milram and the French teams. But wouldn't it be nice to see a bit of variety in it once in a while rather than another second tier GC candidate who will already have got a wildcard to the Giro anyway?

The counter arguement: you could just have another boring breakaway team like cofidis or BBox or Milram or Ag2r then chuck in possibly vacansoleil. It gets a bit the same as well. Having a world champion at the head of the race seems a more exciting prospect even if he's only contending for 3rd. Like I said, probabaly in the 2ng group of favs behind the first which is AC and AS.

 

[luckyboy]

The counter arguement: you could just have another boring breakaway team like cofidis or BBox or Milram or Ag2r then chuck in possibly vacansoleil. It gets a bit the same as well. Having a world champion at the head of the race seems a more exciting prospect even if he's only contending for 3rd. Like I said, probabaly in the 2ng group of favs behind the first which is AC and AS.

Boring breakaways?! They should get rid of the sprinters teams! That'd be interesting

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

how interesting a race without breakaways, personally I love the prospect of watching the peleton ride at a leisurely pace finally going hard in the last 10 kms. That's entertainment!!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The counter arguement: you could just have another boring breakaway team like cofidis or BBox or Milram or Ag2r then chuck in possibly vacansoleil. It gets a bit the same as well. Having a world champion at the head of the race seems a more exciting prospect even if he's only contending for 3rd. Like I said, probabaly in the 2ng group of favs behind the first which is AC and AS.

If that's getting a bit the same, then all the more reason to spice it up by adding some new names to it. The teams bringing along a 2nd or 3rd-tier GC contender are many in number. We do not NEED another one of those. We could do with a non-French team to animate the race though, because Amets Txurruka and Björn Schröder can't escape on every stage (though I'm sure they'd like to). Besides, as has already been pointed out, BMC's roster isn't as big as the ProTour teams, and they'll already have done the Giro and all the Spring Classics. If Ballan and Hincapie aren't interested in riding, then there's a lot riding on Burghardt and Kroon to choose to race, because otherwise Evans is their only calling card. He's a good calling card, don't get me wrong - world champion and excellent track record in the event. But as they'll already have had an invite to the Giro, I won't be bothered at all by them getting left out. Somebody has to miss out, and that's the risk Evans took when he signed for a ProContinental team.

Besides, if he races real hard in the Giro, will he still have enough in him to come 3rd or thereabouts in the Tour? On the evidence of the likes of Sastre last year, no - and that was on a pretty soft Tour parcours compared to this year.

 

[Francois the Postman]

how interesting a race without breakaways, personally I love the prospect of watching the peleton ride at a leisurely pace finally going hard in the last 10 kms. That's entertainment!!

Me too. Wish they would do away with that pointless running around on a football pitch too, and go straight on to penalty shoot outs.

 

[Mambo95]

The arguement for Vacansoliel seems to be that they'll 'animate the race' by getting in breakaways. I sure they would. But BMC have Burghardt, Kroon and Hincapie who have all won Tour stages from breakaways (and Ballan has a 2nd), so they're quite capable of doing that too. I doubt they'll all be riding for Evans all the time.

The 'spreading themselves too thin' arguement is a better case against them, but I still can't see it being quite enough.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

The 'spreading themselves too thin' arguement is a better case against them, but I still can't see it being quite enough.

For me this is the main issue.

This team wants to do well in the classics, ride the giro(and surely they have to send a decent sqaud, otherwise it's just showing disrespect towards the giro)/or travel to america and do a good show at the ToC then regorup and perform at the tour.
The team isn't exactly on the young side either, this is a lot to ask.
And most importantly Evans, he wants to do well or win the giro... It's too much to ask for him to do that then a few weeks later be ready to perform at the tour. Look at menchov and sastre last year. The team will be a dissapointment at the tour imo.

Give Vasc. a chance who IMO are doing everything right in tems of achievinga wildcard, and yes they might be a team who animate races, but they also get results in. This season they are flying already.