Wiggo : not a fanboy of Dopestrong
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-compares-armstrong-to-father-christmas
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-compares-armstrong-to-father-christmas
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Count me as one who has as well. Used to think he was a helluva rider, but now since he's been outed as an obvious drug cheat, F*&^ him, he gets ZERO respect from me.
This too. Infact, Eddy Merckx should heed this advice and STFU himself and stay retired. You don't see Hinault, Bauer or Phinney coming out blabbering on about stuff like this, do you? No(if you do, it's kept on the downlow).
Agree again, but if you're going to investigate Miggy and strip him of a title or 3, why not do it to Merckx too, since he's admitted to cheating as well, and he's a huge Wonderboy supporter. I find that to be hypocrisy from folks, when they want it done to so and so it's fine, but not others(I'm not saying this towards you).
Calm down, fanboy. DQ Indurain and your boy still loses to Bugno. 
Or Chiapucci? Screw that. Mottet wins, and your boy still loses. Damn that blood disease, or was it the EPO that the peleton discovered on stage 13 that year? It all gets so confusing when trying to figure out why GL got his *** kicked while taking into account his present day status as LA enemy.
I guess the natural ability GL had to beat a doped up Fignon, Delgado, etc. couldn't cope with Mottet's cleanliness in 1991.
You do know that Mottet has been declared clean by the clinic, don't you?
You guys crack me up.
Or Chiapucci? Screw that. Mottet wins, and your boy still loses. Damn that blood disease, or was it the EPO that the peleton discovered on stage 13 that year? It all gets so confusing when trying to figure out why GL got his *** kicked while taking into account his present day status as LA enemy.
I guess the natural ability GL had to beat a doped up Fignon, Delgado, etc. couldn't cope with Mottet's cleanliness in 1991.
You do know that Mottet has been declared clean by the clinic, don't you?
You guys crack me up.
Anyone who cant see what cycling is now is very very dimwitted...pariah comes to mind in the sports world..and yeah i think watching baseball will be much more enjoyable...anything but cycling.....Not a fan anymore of any of them...but it is obvious that lemond hinault fignon merckx indurain et al doped...NOBODY made it to the top rung without it...Didnt Lemond place THIRD in his first tour as a green rookie!!!? clean??? 3rd as a neo pro???ah hah ha h ha ha...thx i needed a good laugh...Armstrong was 55th in his first ...merckx was 45th...Indurain 55th..that might give even the most dim witted and feeble minded among us the teensiest tiniest clue. When i was racing in the 80s I could always tell the guys doing amphetamines and steroids in the pack.
their speed set them apart (no pun intended)I was offered steroids but chose to just ride farther and more often and change my training methods. . served me well enough but I did see one of the local riders I knew to be doping win the road race at nationals one year. I didnt stand a chance..I saw him three years later at a race I was at in florida when he was riding for a pro team and his teeth looked like corn nubs..apparently had a little steroidal decalcification going on.....it is like that at the top also...everybody doped to win...as merckx once said, anyone that thinks you can win the tour without strong medicine is either naive or or stupid...it isnt just armstrong that was the problem he didnt invent doping. Festina et al serve as examples.. BTW-If epo wasnt available when GL was racing why did he makes excuses for years that the rest of the peloton was using it and riding away from him? If he had dropped about fifteen pounds before he showed up at the tour instead of just trusting in the juice..we wouldve seen remarkably different results after his third win but not a big deal he did ok and was one of my idols until this crap hit the fan...they are all scumbags...more than obviously nobody made it to the top without it...especially not a guy who placed third in his first tour as a rookie???only one other rider placed third like that out of nowhere and that was raimondas . the lithuanian...another incredibly talented guy i suppose...lemond has said that it was "impossible" that La couldve won clean...methinks he protesteth too much... It is patently obvious and impossible given the culture and competition that any of them won clean..even anqueteil spoke of amphetamine use...defend lemond hinault indurain any of them if you want to but the situation is obvious- all of cycling results in the tour are now in disrepute...the tour is a farce...cant wait for the world series
their speed set them apart (no pun intended)I was offered steroids but chose to just ride farther and more often and change my training methods. . served me well enough but I did see one of the local riders I knew to be doping win the road race at nationals one year. I didnt stand a chance..I saw him three years later at a race I was at in florida when he was riding for a pro team and his teeth looked like corn nubs..apparently had a little steroidal decalcification going on.....it is like that at the top also...everybody doped to win...as merckx once said, anyone that thinks you can win the tour without strong medicine is either naive or or stupid...it isnt just armstrong that was the problem he didnt invent doping. Festina et al serve as examples.. BTW-If epo wasnt available when GL was racing why did he makes excuses for years that the rest of the peloton was using it and riding away from him? If he had dropped about fifteen pounds before he showed up at the tour instead of just trusting in the juice..we wouldve seen remarkably different results after his third win but not a big deal he did ok and was one of my idols until this crap hit the fan...they are all scumbags...more than obviously nobody made it to the top without it...especially not a guy who placed third in his first tour as a rookie???only one other rider placed third like that out of nowhere and that was raimondas . the lithuanian...another incredibly talented guy i suppose...lemond has said that it was "impossible" that La couldve won clean...methinks he protesteth too much... It is patently obvious and impossible given the culture and competition that any of them won clean..even anqueteil spoke of amphetamine use...defend lemond hinault indurain any of them if you want to but the situation is obvious- all of cycling results in the tour are now in disrepute...the tour is a farce...cant wait for the world series
Big Doopie
BANNED
86TDFWinner said:
+1. merckx is a one sad mf. he was my hero growing up. however his support of all dopers and doping since retirement makes him a complete a$$ dopologist (that's a dope apologist).
frankly hinault owes a huge apology to all the french riders he consistently said weren't training hard enough. another freakin' a$$ dopologist.
it really makes you see how far out on limb lemond stood.
Calm down, fanboy. DQ Indurain and your boy still loses to Bugno.
And your point is what exactly?
Please post ANY CREDIBLE SOURCE that claims either:
A) Lemond had a "blood disease" that you're claiming he had
B) that he did infact "dope" as you again claim, do you happen to have that CREDIBLE proof? if so, please post it for all of us here to see? Anything other than you posting said proof to back up your outrageous claims, proves you're completely full of S%^&(not that we needed you to post it for us to know that).
How about it? where is it?
Please explain......
Again, please explain/post your CREDIBLE proof that backs up this claim?
Sorry, I thought this thread was about Lemond?
AGAIN, do you have that proof Lemond doped?
Wonderboy's clueless fanboys do as well, but by all means, continue supporting a cheater.
Oh, and please post your evidence that lemond doped?(crickets chirp)
ChrisE said:Calm down, fanboy. DQ Indurain and your boy still loses to Bugno.
Or Chiapucci? Screw that. Mottet wins, and your boy still loses. Damn that blood disease, or was it the EPO that the peleton discovered on stage 13 that year? It all gets so confusing when trying to figure out why GL got his *** kicked while taking into account his present day status as LA enemy.
I guess the natural ability GL had to beat a doped up Fignon, Delgado, etc. couldn't cope with Mottet's cleanliness in 1991.
You do know that Mottet has been declared clean by the clinic, don't you?
You guys crack me up.
So many inconsistencies there. But isn't the job iof a true believer to believe no matter what.
By the way, I don;t know where this notion of Mottet being a clean rider comes from, when the little French man confessed to doping too. It didn't have any effect on him on his own words, but he did dope. Now it is a matter of whether we believe him or Lemond who although never tried it said it was brilliant.
Lemond vs Mottet. Who do you believe?
And do not worry if you don't understand Lemond explanations/excuses for his poor riding in the latest stages of his career or even when he was about to leave cycling in 1989. From one day to the next he would change excuse, sorry, explanation.
And what about our Andy, our other angel among devils? His great performance against the EPO monsters how can that be explained?
roadfreak44 said:
Man, all sports are contaminated with doping. Doping was legal when they were invented. Professional sport is a farce. Although I understand you now prefer to watch a sport where there is some skill not dope-induced, but those big hitters of today are taking as much **** as the Wiggins, Evans and Lemonds of the peloton. Sorry, and the Mottets. The others we all agree on.
Albatros said:but those big hitters of today are taking as much **** as the Wiggins, Evans and Lemonds of the peloton. Sorry, and the Mottets. The others we all agree on.
AGAIN, please post ANY C-R-E-D-I-B-L-E proof that says Lemond doped, just one?
Do you have that? if so, we'd all love to see/read it.......
I read somewhere got shot up the **** in 87' - not sure if it was banned substance heard it hurt though!
Tom375 said:
LOL, I heard that rumor too. I heard another rumor about how he came back 2 years later, and won back to back TDF's?(all while clean)
Albatros said:So many inconsistencies there. But isn't the job iof a true believer to believe no matter what.
By the way, I don;t know where this notion of Mottet being a clean rider comes from, when the little French man confessed to doping too. It didn't have any effect on him on his own words, but he did dope. Now it is a matter of whether we believe him or Lemond who although never tried it said it was brilliant.
Lemond vs Mottet. Who do you believe?
And do not worry if you don't understand Lemond explanations/excuses for his poor riding in the latest stages of his career or even when he was about to leave cycling in 1989. From one day to the next he would change excuse, sorry, explanation.
And what about our Andy, our other angel among devils? His great performance against the EPO monsters how can that be explained?
Yes, and now we have the GL fanboy spamming my PM box with his whining rants. I prefer my discussions out in the open.
When GL first retired, the excuse was because of a mitochondrial disease. He claims he was clueless about the influx of EPO even though Fignon was not. GL plays the dumb**** card to a tee. The curious quote in fanboys's posts about GL knowing LA's VO2 numbers, which were also known in 99 when the press room rolled their eyes and GL was up LA's *** trying to get in on the action. Only when LA tied his record did GL turn. What a coincidence.
No OOC testing, coverups, roids and amphetimine use in the 80's yet the great GL bested them all on power bars and water. All thoughout cycling history there has been doping from Anquetil's basic admission to today, which one shining exception.
Yes, it is good to have fanboys.
As for Mottet, I did a google search and I did see he admitted, though I stand by my statement that he was generally thought to be clean. Regardless, if he only took amphetimines that was surely no match for Superman GL so he must have been on some super drug.
Hampsten, you mean the guy who won AdH in 92 after a death march thru the alps in the heat, and ultimately finished 4th? This means EPO didn't come about until 1993, you see. We move the influx of EPO out of the wheelhouse of our heroe's exploits lol.
ChrisE said:Yes, and now we have the GL fanboy spamming my PM box with his whining rants. I prefer my discussions out in the open.
When GL first retired, the excuse was because of a mitochondrial disease. He claims he was clueless about the influx of EPO even though Fignon was not. GL plays the dumb**** card to a tee. The curious quote in fanboys's posts about GL knowing LA's VO2 numbers, which were also known in 99 when the press room rolled their eyes and GL was up LA's *** trying to get in on the action. Only when LA tied his record did GL turn. What a coincidence.
No OOC testing, coverups, roids and amphetimine use in the 80's yet the great GL bested them all on power bars and water. All thoughout cycling history there has been doping from Anquetil's basic admission to today, which one shining exception.
Yes, it is good to have fanboys.
As for Mottet, I did a google search and I did see he admitted, though I stand by my statement that he was generally thought to be clean. Regardless, if he only took amphetimines that was surely no match for Superman GL so he must have been on some super drug.
Hampsten, you mean the guy who won AdH in 92 after a death march thru the alps in the heat, and ultimately finished 4th? This means EPO didn't come about until 1993, you see. We move the influx of EPO out of the wheelhouse of our heroe's exploits lol.
it had to have been before 1993, or else gl would have kept winning the tour. maybe only spanish and italian riders had access to it before 93
ChrisE said:
I "spammed your PM box"? no, I asked where your info was that backed up your "Lemond doped too" claim? Since you didn't(and haven't) responded "out in the open" as others have asked of you to do, I wanted to ask you again in private.
I'll try again(out in the open just for you), do you have said proof that Lemond doped? if so, please post it.
Edit: I don't know why I bother asking, no one posts the "proof". ChrisE, no wonder why folks don't take anything you say the least bit serious, or credible. You're a troll.
The emptiness Armstrong's fans feel now that their hero got thrown under everybus going in sport and next comes the libel busses.
Got to be hard. Instead of turning to the only Amercian to have won the Tour de France they lash out blindly, ranting at anything and everything.
Sad really.
Got to be hard. Instead of turning to the only Amercian to have won the Tour de France they lash out blindly, ranting at anything and everything.
Sad really.
GL is just as clean as LA, neither of them ever tested positive ;-)
funny how the clinic crucify s some and worships the ground GL, JV, DM and Sky walk / Ride on ;-)
funny how the clinic crucify s some and worships the ground GL, JV, DM and Sky walk / Ride on ;-)
For those few who don't know. This notion of Mottet being a clean rider comes from Willy Voet's book. He was obviously wrong.
ChrisE said:Yes, and now we have the GL fanboy spamming my PM box with his whining rants. I prefer my discussions out in the open.
When GL first retired, the excuse was because of a mitochondrial disease. He claims he was clueless about the influx of EPO even though Fignon was not. GL plays the dumb**** card to a tee. The curious quote in fanboys's posts about GL knowing LA's VO2 numbers, which were also known in 99 when the press room rolled their eyes and GL was up LA's *** trying to get in on the action. Only when LA tied his record did GL turn. What a coincidence.
No OOC testing, coverups, roids and amphetimine use in the 80's yet the great GL bested them all on power bars and water. All thoughout cycling history there has been doping from Anquetil's basic admission to today, which one shining exception.
Yes, it is good to have fanboys.
As for Mottet, I did a google search and I did see he admitted, though I stand by my statement that he was generally thought to be clean. Regardless, if he only took amphetimines that was surely no match for Superman GL so he must have been on some super drug.
Hampsten, you mean the guy who won AdH in 92 after a death march thru the alps in the heat, and ultimately finished 4th? This means EPO didn't come about until 1993, you see. We move the influx of EPO out of the wheelhouse of our heroe's exploits lol.
More over his strange mitochondrial disease.
He came to the press room stating that although he was sad for having to retire, at least now he was happy that he finally had found the reasons for his deteriorated performance in his last years as a professional, as if getting on was not good enough for him.
So our special man Lemond, had also contracted an special illness, and he was the first adult to get it. That said by the most knowledgeable doctor in the world on the disease if we believe his words.
Curiously enough, only one month later an article appeared in the press written by an expert on the field stating that MD would prevent sufferers from doing even light exercise, not to mention climbing the Tourmalet.
Perhaps this shows the greatness of Lemond better than anything else. He managed to complete the Tour suffering from mitochondrial disease.
I am a believer too.
patricknd said:it had to have been before 1993, or else gl would have kept winning the tour. maybe only spanish and italian riders had access to it before 93
That is one of the very incomprehensible facts that the brigade of clean riders fanboys must have a hard time to digest.
They tell you, Lemond was clean, Hampsten was clean, Bauer was clean and Mottet was clean. Sorry if I forgot any others.
But you see two of them performing much better than Lemond at the time the EPO era it is supposed to take over. In fact their standing improve. How that is possible? Did they leave Lemond on his own?
1989
1 Greg LeMond (USA) ADR-Agrigel-Bottechia 87h 38' 35"
2 Laurent Fignon (FRA) Super U +0' 08"
3 Pedro Delgado (ESP) Reynolds-Banesto +3' 34"
4 Gert-Jan Theunisse (NED) PDM +7' 30"
5 Marino Lejarreta (ESP) Paternina-Marco-Equizabal +9' 39"
6 Charly Mottet (FRA) RMO-Mavic-Liberia +10' 06"
7 Steven Rooks (NED) PDM +11' 10"
8 Raúl Alcalá (MEX) PDM +14' 21"
9 Sean Kelly (IRE) PDM +18' 25"
10 Robert Millar (GBR) Z +18' 46"
1990
1 Greg LeMond (USA) Z 90h 43' 20"
2 Claudio Chiappucci (ITA) Carrera Jeans-Vagabond +2' 16"
3 Erik Breukink (NED) PDM +2' 29"
4 Pedro Delgado (ESP) Banesto +5' 01"
5 Marino Lejarreta (ESP) ONCE +5' 05"
6 Eduardo Chozas (ESP) ONCE +9' 14"
7 Gianni Bugno (ITA) Chateau d'Ax +9' 39"
8 Raúl Alcalá (MEX) PDM +11' 14"
9 Claude Criquielion (BEL) Lotto-Superclub +12' 04"
10 Miguel Indurain (ESP) Banesto +12' 47"
1991
1 Miguel Indurain (ESP) Banesto 101h 01' 20"
2 Gianni Bugno (ITA) Gatorade-Chateau d'Ax +3' 36"
3 Claudio Chiappucci (ITA) Carrera +5' 56"
4 Charly Mottet (FRA) RMO +7' 37"
5 Luc Leblanc (FRA) Castorama +10' 10"
6 Laurent Fignon (FRA) Castorama +11' 27"
7 Greg LeMond (USA) Z +13' 13"
8 Andrew Hampsten (USA) Motorola +13' 40"
9 Pedro Delgado (ESP) Banesto +20' 10"
10 Gerard Rué (FRA) Helvetia +20' 13"
1992
1 Miguel Indurain (ESP) Banesto 100h 49' 30"
2 Claudio Chiappucci (ITA) Carrera Jeans-Vagabond +4' 35"
3 Gianni Bugno (ITA) Gatorade +10' 49"
4 Andrew Hampsten (USA) Motorola +13' 40"
5 Pascal Lino (FRA) RMO +14' 37"
6 Pedro Delgado (ESP) Banesto +15' 16"
7 Erik Breukink (NED) PDM +18' 51"
8 Giancarlo Perini (ITA) Carrera Jeans-Vagabond +19' 16"
9 Stephen Roche (IRE) Carrera Jeans-Vagabond +20' 23"
10 Jens Heppner (GER) Telekom +25' 30"
What about Delgado? Did he take EPO or was it only destined for Indurain, or perhaps EPO helped him less for being of a smaller frame, but then what about Chiappucci? And Fignon? Did he stick to his silly steroids and cortisone or did he move up the gears to better Lemond in 1991?
And Andy in 1992? Only Indurain, Bugno and Chiappucci were EPO doping?
Albatros said:
More over his strange mitochondrial disease.
He came to the press room stating that although he was sad for having to retire, at least now he was happy that he finally had found the reasons for his deteriorated performance in his last years as a professional, as if getting on was not good enough for him.
So our special man Lemond, had also contracted an special illness, and he was the first adult to get it. That said by the most knowledgeable doctor in the world on the disease if we believe his words.
Curiously enough, only one month later an article appeared in the press written by an expert on the field stating that MD would prevent sufferers from doing even light exercise, not to mention climbing the Tourmalet.
Perhaps this shows the greatness of Lemond better than anything else. He managed to complete the Tour suffering from mitochondrial disease.
I am a believer too.
I think LeMond tried a number of doctors in a quest to get to the bottom of his health problems. Yes the disease was the line in use at the time of his retirement but I think at that stage there was nothing else on the table that could explain his problems so they went with that.
I think after he retired he had further tests conducted and was told there was nothing wrong with him so they had nothing to go on. Having had the misfortune to have spent too much time around hospitals and doctors in the last 6 months, we have been incredibly frustrated at hearing various explanations/prognosis on the medical problems affecting a loved one. It seems it is not always easy to get straight answers when it comes to medical issues. One thing a particular day, something else another day.
I have said it before and re-iterate it again, I don't believe EPO was the primary reason for LeMond's decline. It might have hastened the decline or made it more dramatic but some form of illness looks much more likely.
How do you go from winning Tour DuPont(May) to not even making the time limit in the mountains in the Tour(July) as happened to LeMond in 92. Don't think that is purely down to drugs!!!
LeMond did know about EPO and when he retired in 94 stated that something bad was happening in Pro Cycling. He didn't actually name EPO but looking back now, its easy to see what he was referring to.
On Fignon knowing more about EPO than LeMond, Fignon said he heard of the stories and rumours about EPO usage but it wasn't until he moved to Gatorade, an Italian team in 92 that he got a better understanding of things. LeMond probably heard the same stories but never rode for an Italian team. The French teams(Festina aside) were regarded at the last teams to get on the EPO train in 94/95.
On Mottet trying amphetamines, this sounds like someone trying a joint a few times. Amphetamines were the most easily detectable drugs in pro cycling in the 80s and there usage was almost non-exsistant in the major race. They were most commonly used in the post Tour crits which would seem the most likely place to have been used. Look at Paul Kimmage, this is where he tried amphetamines a few times. Never went any further up the doping ladder. If this is the case, you have to laugh at people labelling Mottet as a doper. I would never label someone who tried a joint a few times in their life as a druggie.
Interesting. I've used Mottet as an example of a clean rider being successful in the late 80s, very early 90s. I guess I won't do that again."Jeff" said:
hrotha said:
Likewise I would have followed the same line but I don't think it is incompatible that Voet believed Mottet to be clean. If Mottet only tried amphetamines as stated a few times which most likely happened at post Tours crits and perhaps before Mottet and Voet were at the same clean, it is still entirely plausible that Mottet was clean the whole time he was at RMO with Voet so therefore Voet believed Mottet to be clean.
After all Paul Kimmage is a doper even though he only tried amphetamines at crits 3-4 times in 4 seasons as a pro. Personally I don't really view Kimmage as a doper, more like experimented with dope.
86TDFWinner said:
Can you ****ing read? Let me type more slowly.
Consensus is doping has been prevalent in cycling for decades. The shining exception is GL, who won not only in spite of that fact but also against admittedly doped competition. No OOC testing, coverups, etc. He lost because of the arrival of EPO (present day convenient story line) yet Mottet and Hampsten could still thrive while he was plopped in the broom wagon like a manatee washed up on a shoreline after getting whacked by a skeg. Explain that. That's right....it's a bird, it's a plane, it's a moped, it's super cyclist, err except all this other inconvenient stuff!
I'm sure your explanation would be different if he wasn't LA's enemy.
Now, run along and stop taking me seriously. It's detrimental to fanboyism.
And, stop PM'ing me with your request for diaper change. I will not be your friend as you have requested.
ChrisE said:
Why yes, I can "^&%$ read", very well too. Apparently you're having trouble locating the supposed "proof/evidence" of Lemond doping, as you've continued to say he apparently did? "Rumor" and actually doping, are 2 different things.
Apparently, YOU "cant ^%$# read" because I've asked you a few times to please post said Lemond doped too proof, and you cant seem to either:
a) comprehend that, or produce it.
b) you don't realize you're talking out of your a$# and when you got caught, now you're getting upset.
Why not produce the said "Lemond doped too" info you keep going on and on about knowing about/assuming/etc? IMO, that would make ANY response you give, much more credible and/or believeable, but you can't do that it seems.
Please go troll your Wonderboy boards, and come back when you have the said "Lemond doped too" evidence/proof" you keep yammering on about believe, or that he did so, buyt providing no times, no drugs, no doctors names, when, where did it take place, nothing.
So AGAIN, do you have the info I've asked about now for the last 6 times?
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