The World According to Lance - 4 Corners

[Galic Ho]

Because I mentioned this elsewhere. It belongs here.

Four Corners was GOLD. Man was it GOLD. Liggett is in a really really bad place. I was always perplexed at his stance. Especially after that Saffa radio rant a month back. Was he in the know and a despicable ******* or was he a naive fanboy? Fanboy it seems. He had some great quotes. First cut to him seemed like old footage, the others were clearly new. He acknowledged he doesn't know about the details (typical of Phil) but he was visibly unsettled and disturbed. His mind is plaguing him. Phil acknowledged he'd trumpeted the LA horn maybe too much but then acknowledged LA almost had to have been doping.

He was asked what he thought regarding doping. "Everyone was doping." Seemed like he was deflecting. Then he said 'It really upsets me. I think....Lance almost had to be doping." Then Phil revealed what is tormenting him. The victims. The cancer victims. He cannot fathom how anyone could make their comeback about fighting cancer, about being a hero to cancer victims, about trumpeting such a noble cause and then betraying the whole thing by doping the entire time. Liggett is gutted. Really gutted. He knows now. At least that's what he showed.

Yeah the whole thing was linear, except for the Suisse positive. Four Corners went to France, America and talked to a lot of people. No USADA, Floyd, LA camp or lawyers talked. First up was Betsy Andreu. Emma O'Reilly was next. Tyler talked to them. They mentioned the confessions regarding the hospital incident. McIlvain got a holler and so did her phone conversation with Lemond. Ressiot. The backdated TUE from 1999 was next. Then Tyler talked about how they doped, when and where. Motoman in a fuzzed out photo was used to explain how the dope came in. The SCA Promotion lawyer went over a great deal of the doping info they'd dug up. They focused heavily on 1999 for quite a while. Then they talked to the French with Ressiot. He went over the 2005 retrospective EPO positives and how his report was just brushed aside. Four Corners went to the actual AFLD laboratory and spoke with a woman who appeared to be the head of the lab. She explained what happened. Then to nail it home they asked Dr Ashenden what went on. He was critical of the UCI whilst remaining objective. **** Pound was also critical on the UCI. He had Verbruggen's pearler about doping being the fans point to talk about.

Overall it was good. Good news for White and all the Aussie boys, nobody got a mention. Not a peep. Only Ashenden and Andersen made an appearance. Phil only mentioned what Lance was like personally. Talked about his pre-cancer 1994 condition and how he clearly couldn't climb and had a poor chrono. Then Four Corners flipped to 1995 and what happened on Morotola. Clearly they finished the whole thing weeks ago before USADA published their 'Reasoned Decision.'

As for doping with Aussies. ASADA can restore some confidence quite easily. Get Dr Ashenden to go over the blood profiles of the Aussie riders linked to USADA's report who still ride (Davis and Rogers). Oh, that's right, the UCI won't let him. My bad. Ashenden made it clear on Four Corners that doping was still going on. If they need to clean up house Anne Gripper can be borrowed from Triathlon Australia. Just a thought.

I wonder if Phil is angry with Paul? The whole PR man thing for Motorola and the know well known doping that was going on must really bother Phil. After all, if he was super naive with massive fanboy glasses on, how could Paul have let him be deceived in such a way. Major embarassment. We may just never hear those two together again. Yay!!!!

Four Corners regarding Lance's denial (on tape from 2005 during the SCA Promotions case) that he doped in the 1999 Tour and the samples being 'tainted' could have cleared that up easily with Ashenden. That was the only fault I found. My dad watched it with me. He noted that I'd told him everything that came up in the past.

It was good to put a voice to Ashenden. Very Aussie and straight to the point. Eloquent and understandable. I expected no less given his past quotes, written of course. Also good to see O'Reilly and Betsy Andreu. I only recently found out what Betsy looks like. To be honest, if telling the truth means you look as fine and lively as she does then everyone needs to tell the truth. She looks amazing for her age. Honesty has been kind to her. Can't say the same for LA...he's looking worn and tired in the face. It was also good to put a face to Ressiot after all these years.

Does anyone know who Tyler's female friend was? New wife or is she as I suspected, his younger sister?

 

[Galic Ho]

The show is the bedrock of investigative journalism in Australia. Its been on for around 20 years.

Its not on commercial TV so there's no pressure from sponsors. It similar to BBC"s Panorama or in the US... ummm..... not sure if there is anything!

My suspicion is that they'll uncover some of the payments to the hospitals and certain Doctors after the SCA trial.

Just a hunch.

They mentioned the Doctor who testifed for Lance, after they presented evidence McIlvain had been coerced by Oakley to keep her job (Oakley didn't want bad PR) that Armstrong used the Livestrong Foundation to give US $1.5 million to the Hospital and to ensure the Doctor in question was made part of some special board of representatives. Tied in nicely with Ashenden's points about how damning and reprehensible it is for authoritative bodies to take money from people they are meant to ensure are morally sound and not doping cheats.

This painted LA as a man who just uses his deep pockets to get out of trouble. Tied in with SCA Promotions Lawyers talk and also Ressiot saying LA has an army of 20 lawyers who can sue you (he was referring to 2005) and yet if you get hard evidence on him, he backs away and will not touch you...because the courts will splash it around publicly. Ressiot stated LA never went after him, but had the UCI do a hatchet job which we know as the Vrijman report.

 

[barn yard]

video here for those who cant watch it on the ABC site which may be geo restricted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q03sc8Aoyk0&feature=youtu.be

 

[thehog]

They mentioned the Doctor who testifed for Lance, after they presented evidence McIlvain had been coerced by Oakley to keep her job (Oakley didn't want bad PR) that Armstrong used the Livestrong Foundation to give US $1.5 million to the Hospital and to ensure the Doctor in question was made part of some special board of representatives. Tied in nicely with Ashenden's points about how damning and reprehensible it is for authoritative bodies to take money from people they are meant to ensure are morally sound and not doping cheats.

.

You know I knew this was going to air in regards to payments.

More to come on that front.

 

[Galic Ho]

Hey is the air time at 830 in Sydney? Looks like I can watch this across the ditch in NZ. Gotta get the time zone right...

Always add two hours.

 

[el hipopotamo]

Tyler's female friend is his wife, she's mentioned a good bit in The Secret Race.

 

[movingtarget]

Did I watch another program than you guys?

Phil Liggett hasn't backflipped whatsoever.

He has definitely given ground and he looks worn out. Knowing how highly Liggett regarded Armstrong I wonder if he will retire now himself. This might be too much for him. This might have removed his enthusiasm for the sport. He was close to packing it in a few years ago according to an interview I saw.

 

[Galic Ho]

It is a public broadcaster so of course you won't be able to watch it. The programs are heavily restricted.

Does anyone know if the ABC are rebroadcasting this? If so, put down the time in the thread and send me a PM. I will take the computer into the lounge room, hook up the capture card and record the whole thing. Then I can either dump it on YouTube, before it gets taken down and I get a strike on the account or I can upload it from my brothers place to The Pirate Bay or some other torrent site. I'd do this from my place but living 5km out of town and 6km away from the exchange really stretches the limit of ADSL. My brothers bandwidth is about as fast as you can get in Australia without Cable or Fibre Op. More than fast enough to seed a few people.

 

[Galic Ho]

Tyler's female friend is his wife, she's mentioned a good bit in The Secret Race.

That isn't Haven dude. Unless he has a second wife. My copy of 'The Secret Race' is enroute from the USA via Amazon. I didn't get it for my birthday last week but ironically the money I was given that I used to buy the copy which was $27 with postage is less than Random House Australia's flat $34 charge for the book. And the person who gave me the money said they couldn't find it online despite me telling them mutliple times what to type into google and what link to follow.

But yeah, unless Tyler was married again, that isn't his Haven.

 

[movingtarget]

Does anyone know if the ABC are rebroadcasting this? If so, put down the time in the thread and send me a PM. I will take the computer into the lounge room, hook up the capture card and record the whole thing. Then I can either dump it on YouTube, before it gets taken down and I get a strike on the account or I can upload it from my brothers place to The Pirate Bay or some other torrent site. I'd do this from my place but living 5km out of town and 6km away from the exchange really stretches the limit of ADSL. My brothers bandwidth is about as fast as you can get in Australia without Cable or Fibre Op. More than fast enough to seed a few people.

Yes, tomorrow night 11.30-12.15 AEST.

 

[Galic Ho]

Its going to be good tonight - just saw a bit on The Drum: Jorge Jaekshe (sp?) spells out the UCI's lack of interest in the information he had

That he did. I forgot to mention Four Corners spent quite a big of time with Joerg (that's how they spelt it) Jaksche. He explained a lot that was relevant with how Four Corners approached the peloton and also the UCI regarding doping. Said he was sick of the hypocrisy and hence even though he was blacklisted, a comeback wasn't really an option in his mind after he was caught.

 

[movingtarget]

That he did. I forgot to mention Four Corners spent quite a big of time with Joerg (that's how they spelt it) Jaksche. He explained a lot that was relevant with how Four Corners approached the peloton and also the UCI regarding doping. Said he was sick of the hypocrisy and hence even though he was blacklisted, a comeback wasn't really an option in his mind after he was caught.

Kohl did the same. Got out altogether.

 

[Galic Ho]

Yes, tomorrow night 11.30-12.15 AEST.

I will look into recording it then. No promises though. I have my brothers old PC (which is still pretty darn good) and it has an Avermedia Capture Card in it. I think I need to get a mini-HDMI adapter though and I'd have to steal one from someone at home who will be using it on their monitor to play WOW, or drive to Bathurst to get one. And that is 60km away.

Arrggghhhh. I also have the old HDD recorder from ALDI that kind of worked. It'll record stuff, if it still works. Then I can dump it onto the PC. Again no promises, but I think I can record it.

 

[TomasC]

That isn't Haven dude. Unless he has a second wife. My copy of 'The Secret Race' is enroute from the USA via Amazon. I didn't get it for my birthday last week but ironically the money I was given that I used to buy the copy which was $27 with postage is less than Random House Australia's flat $34 charge for the book. And the person who gave me the money said they couldn't find it online despite me telling them mutliple times what to type into google and what link to follow.

But yeah, unless Tyler was married again, that isn't his Haven.

Well he does have a second wife. See wiki. No idea if she was the one in 4 corners, haven't seen it.

 

[DominicDecoco]

He has definitely given ground and he looks worn out. Knowing how highly Liggett regarded Armstrong I wonder if he will retire now himself. This might be too much for him. This might have removed his enthusiasm for the sport. He was close to packing it in a few years ago according to an interview I saw.

He couldn't get himself to say Lance doped even if his own life depended on it. I just saw the documentary and all I heard was Phil saying words like 'unlikely' 'if', 'difficult situation'.

 

[Galic Ho]

Wait, what? So now it's hard to believe Lance is clean because of all the other guys who were found to be dirty? You know, like the ones who got popped like a decade ago? And now suddenly this information finally reaches Phil Liggett because he has limited access to professional cycling. Why the sudden flip-flop, Phil? How many sides doth thy mouth contain?

I can understand him saying that the evidence looks pretty damning so it looks like Lance is guilty after all, but this is hilarious. Do us all a favor, Phil. Put down the microphone and slowly walk away. That's it. Keep walking.

Look at my explanation on my very long post. It seems Phil really didn't know and absolutely believed the hype and myth. He was visibly very perturbed. He is clearly in emotional pain. Of greater note is that he thinks the cancer victims Lance misled and defrauded is the greatest sham in all of this. It seemed as if he feels personally responsible for their anguish and doesn't know how to deal with it.

Which is a massive turn around from his garbage last month in South Africa.

 

[PCutter]

I will look into recording it then. No promises though. I have my brothers old PC (which is still pretty darn good) and it has an Avermedia Capture Card in it. I think I need to get a mini-HDMI adapter though and I'd have to steal one from someone at home who will be using it on their monitor to play WOW, or drive to Bathurst to get one. And that is 60km away.

Arrggghhhh. I also have the old HDD recorder from ALDI that kind of worked. It'll record stuff, if it still works. Then I can dump it onto the PC. Again no promises, but I think I can record it.

Barn Yard recorded it and put it up on youtube, see pg 8 of this thread

 

[Galic Ho]

Have the ABC been preparing this program for a while? It seems unreal that they could have put this all together in the last week.

It is missing a ton of info that came out this week. It was clear this was put together before the USADA 'Reasoned Decision' because at the start they mentioned that report was due out in a few weeks time. Was probably finished at the end of last month and left in it's edited state.

 

[Galic Ho]

Yes, it is working for me.

Assuming you are in England? If it works for you I don't need to record it. Just checked the quality, it is very good. 46 minutes long people. Will be about 500-600MB at a guess.

Barn Yard recorded it and put it up on youtube, see pg 8 of this thread

Sorry for my other posts...I started at the front of the thread and am reading through and I reply in that order. I saw page 8 though...I thought he was saying he'd use iView and then record it. ACF94's link is the best bet.

You seriously think an Aussie could have recorded, edited and uploaded a 46 minute video to YouTube in just 2 hours after the broadcast ended? Yeah, not on any residential internet connection. Even 100Mbs down connections are capped to 1Mbs up stream in the Land Down Under.

Edit: Didn't notice his post as it came after my first one...I am pleasantly surprised the whole thing is uploaded and processed on YouTube. I want that persons net. Also the YouTube account name was Gold. CancerJesus77777. That is so good. Is BarnYard an Aussie? Just wondering for clarification on internet speeds. Seems too fast to be an Aussie.

 

[el hipopotamo]

Well he does have a second wife. See wiki. No idea if she was the one in 4 corners, haven't seen it.

Second wife's name is Lindsay and she was listed as Lindsay Hamilton on the doc, so unless he has a sister with the same name, then she's definitely his wife. They look happy.

 

[Shortleg]

And apart from Phil A, no mention of the Australian end of things, including Mikes Rann & Turtur. I'd really like to know what life was like under Charlie (Watts) oops, Wlash, ice-baths, pot belge etc etc. Who is going to open their veins about those days?

 

[PCutter]

The second half of the Jaksche interview is the most interesting, but didn't make the edit for TV

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-15/the-world-according-to-lance-key-players/4313246#joerg

 

[cineteq]

Jeff Tillotson: Armstrong, a persuasive liar.

 

[Galic Ho]

Well he does have a second wife. See wiki. No idea if she was the one in 4 corners, haven't seen it.

Lucky man. She is a looker. She only appeared at the end to mention how Tyler's character has changed dramatically. He said he was kicking and screaming during his initial contact with USADA, but that it has been the best thing to happen to him.

Wiki says his new wife is Lindsay Hamilton. That is who was next to him. She looks younger than him. I figured it really would have been brought up by now. If Armstrong sees her he'd be all over her like a rabid dog. Definitely his type. Blonde, tanned. But better looking than his conquests by a country mile. Lindsay said a massive weight has been lifted from Tyler's shoulders. They both looked really happy.

Ultimately, that was another part of the message. The truth sets people free and they can be happy without any burden to have to carry. It was clear as day in Tyler's face. Same with Betsy. Their faces looked fresh and relaxed. The stress of the last two years is making Armstrong age considerably in a short period. He really should fess up for his own good...it really would help him.

 

[el hipopotamo]

Look at my explanation on my very long post. It seems Phil really didn't know and absolutely believed the hype and myth. He was visibly very perturbed. He is clearly in emotional pain. Of greater note is that he thinks the cancer victims Lance misled and defrauded is the greatest sham in all of this. It seemed as if he feels personally responsible for their anguish and doesn't know how to deal with it.

Which is a massive turn around from his garbage last month in South Africa.

Agreed. After seeing the documentary, Phil does look like he's been betrayed. Still, are we really to believe that all this time, he had no idea whatsoever. It's somewhat understandable if he wanted to believe his friend but there have been so many connections already made between Lance and doping. Does this mean Phil just assumed everyone but Lance was lying this whole time? Was it that easy for him to just dismiss all of the past allegations? As a "journalist", and I use that term very generously here, shouldn't he have at least entertained the possibility that Lance was dirty this whole time? That he claims never to have thought that simply beggars belief. And this is why the omertà works: because anyone who tries to defy the company line is immediately dismissed and ridiculed. This further proves that Phil is and always has been complicit the whole time.