Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[lenric]

Nothing. Which is a lot less than Pinot and I could pull other riders too

I can also pull riders, or other sportsman who performed better after they had changed their environment/team, so it works both ways.

 

[RedheadDane]

I can also pull riders, or other sportsman who performed better after they had changed their environment/team, so it works both ways.

Exactly, it works both way. And Pinot seems very much to be one of the people for whom staying in a familiar setting is what works best.

 

[carolina]

Pinot is one of my favourite riders, but starting a 3 week race with an unsolved back problem seems very careless to me.

If riding a bike can make the problem worse, why is he starting a 3 week race?! It makes no sense at all. Even if he was just doing domestique work, it's still 4-6h a day for 21 days, doing something that doesn't help with the injury recovery.

When the Vuelta participation was announced I assumed the back issue was solved. I understand that he didn't want to finish the season with that Tour participation, but this is just stupid.

Riders can be very emotional, the team should have made the decision for him to not participate.

I hope he recovers well, I really want to see him win some races next year.

 

[RedheadDane]

Pinot is one of my favourite riders, but starting a 3 week race with an unsolved back problem seems very careless to me.

If you read the team report, it appears like they thought the problem had been solved, at least well enough that he could've done some work for the team, and hunt stages'

David Gaudu shows encouraging signs

The third stage of the Vuelta did not start the best way for the Groupama-FDJ cycling team. On Thursday, Thibaut Pinot was forced to leave the race due to severe and persistent back pain following his crash on the Tour. The team then got back on the road without the Frenchman and gathered around...

www.equipecycliste-groupama-fdj.fr

“We noticed an improvement a little after his post-Tour de France break, and because of this improvement, Thibaut had made the bet to come to the Vuelta to go for a stage win”,

 

[carolina]

Maybe it's a bad translation, but from the cyclingnews article before que Vuelta start he said he was still not recovered:

"Since the Tour, my back has not recovered 100 per cent. That's the slight uncertainty I have going into the Vuelta. We'll see. I hope it goes in the right direction. In any case, it's better than it was at the Tour, but I can't say it's 100 per cent," Pinot said.

Pinot plays down Vuelta a España chances as back injury lingers

Frenchman aiming to win stages and support Gaudu

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[RedheadDane]

Still entirely possible that he thought being at less than 100% - and we're probably talking maybe 80%-90%, not 20% - would be enough.

 

[carolina]

I find that very hard to believe, because he quit after 2 stages where he did nothing. There is no way it was 80-90% recovered.

 

[RedheadDane]

He still had to try, in order to find out if he could do it.

 

[movingtarget]

I think Pinot will be relieved to end his season.

 

[carolina]

He still had to try, in order to find out if he could do it.

That's where I think the team went wrong. It feels more like an emotional decision then a rational one.

 

[Breezy1985]

That's where I think the team went wrong. It feels more like an emotional decision then a rational one.

Some people don't seem to get that's why the likes of Madiot are love by some. I watch sport for the emotional if I want rational I'll watch a science program. I'll take stupid attacks and no hope long range efforts over power meters and marginal gains any day

 

[carolina]

We are not talking about attacks during a race, we are talking about something that could have made the injury worst and the recovery more difficult.

Those are two very different situations. It's the health of the rider.

 

[fbjim]

Still entirely possible that he thought being at less than 100% - and we're probably talking maybe 80%-90%, not 20% - would be enough.

It makes a bit of sense if he thought he could ride into form for stage wins later, but I think the first week was way too hard for that if he's still recovering from a back problem.

 

[Tonton]

I had hope, I'm gutted...riding the whole Tour injured, muscles over-compensating, Thibaut probably screwed up his body. He proved something to cycling fans and to himself in terms of toughness, pleased his hometown fans, his sponsors...and ruined his year.

How much is Pinot being stubborn, team/sponsors pressure, we'll never know. But he'll be cheap on the CQ Manager 2021 and I will pick him. Tibopino will bounce back...again.

 

[Parker]

What had Thomas before his miracle conversion to TdF winner ?

Prior to winning the Tour, Thomas had won Paris-Nice, the Dauphine, Volta Algarve, Tour of the Alps, Bayern-Rundfart twice despite rarely being team leader. Pinot has been team leader his entire career and has a record similar to Rafa Majka (but slightly worse). He's only talked up as a contender because he is French and rides for Madiot who hypes him up.

 

[macbindle]

Prior to winning the Tour, Thomas had won Paris-Nice, the Dauphine, Volta Algarve, Tour of the Alps, Bayern-Rundfart twice despite rarely being team leader. Pinot has been team leader his entire career and has a record similar to Rafa Majka (but slightly worse). He's only talked up as a contender because he is French and rides for Madiot who hypes him up.

^ the hard truth.

Pinot once podiumed the Tour, in one of his few finishes, and this is why the French still hype him.

Majka has ridden 14 GTs, (DNFd twice) podiumed in the Vuelta and been in GC numerous times. But nobody talks about him.

 

[Breezy1985]

Prior to winning the Tour, Thomas had won Paris-Nice, the Dauphine, Volta Algarve, Tour of the Alps, Bayern-Rundfart twice despite rarely being team leader. Pinot has been team leader his entire career and has a record similar to Rafa Majka (but slightly worse). He's only talked up as a contender because he is French and rides for Madiot who hypes him up.

Wait Algarve and Rundfart wow. How could I have forgotten those. And if Tour ofthe Alps is counting as a big win Tibo has got one too and some Ains and other minor races but still definitely better than Majka so your just talking pure nonsense now

 

[RedheadDane]

I think of all the riders in his generation, Pinot probably had the most impressive into the world of GT racing; 10th and a stage win in his first ever Grand Tour, aged just 22. No wonder expectations have been high, back in 2012 that was considered quite impressive, of course these days it's pretty much later bloomer.

 

[Simurgh]

^ the hard truth.

Pinot once podiumed the Tour, in one of his few finishes, and this is why the French still hype him.

Majka has ridden 14 GTs, (DNFd twice) podiumed in the Vuelta and been in GC numerous times. But nobody talks about him.

I really can't be bothered with a lengthy discussion, but I will say this; Majka has never, and I just took a quick glance on his results, made any stand-out performances beating world-class riders on an MTF. He is a decent GC-rider, who even in his best year and best GC, that Vuelta-podium, didn't put a decent, but declining Rodriguez, Quintana (who was sick the first week IIRC), the newborn GC-contenders Dumoulin & Chaves, and forgettable riders like Moreno and Meintjes to the sword. In fact, it is only the Cercedilla stage, where Majka puts significant time into everyone else bar Quintana. No one talks about Majka because he hasn't shown anything of significance since 2015, besides a polka-dot in the most forgettable 2016 Tour and a decent 6th in the Giro last year, both results only a fan would remember and which I had to look up. Because these results neither leave questions behind, nor have been extraordinary. He is decent, but a step or two below the best (whether their names have been Quintana and Rodriguez, or Nibali and Roglic), and have been for years - and if there was any doubt regarding this, there would be a contentious debate like there have been in this thread for over a year now. Likewise, there has been a heated debate (which this Giro should settle) about Fuglsang's Tour-winning potential because of his late-career transformation, but crashes prevented him in 2017 and to a lesser extent, last year, to show whether he had it in him. Pinot on the other hand, has since 2012 shown, albeit inconsistently that he can follow or beat the very best, whether Froome/Wiggins on La Toussuire or Peyragudes, or Bernal and Thomas on Prat d'Albis and Tourmalet. Do 7 DNF's tell us something? Definitely, it would be stupid or naive to think otherwise. Do they tell the whole story? No, and it would be foolish to ignore the context and draw certain conclusions. That is what I would call arrogance. And that is all I have to say on the matter, because honestly this feels like discussing with a politician with opinions set in stone and repeating the same slogans, unwilling to engage in a discussion with an open mind and at the very least consider, that they might be at fault. Good day, everyone.

 

[macbindle]

Riders win GTs by being consistent. They dont get there by having a couple of good days then abandoning.

Majka is a great comparator because regardless of the whataboutery in your head, the results demonstrate that he has come as close to a GT win as Pinot. And yet, as you imply, he is nothing particularly special

It's a shame that you feel the need the resort to personal insults.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Riders win GTs by being consistent. They dont get there by having a couple of good days then abandoning.

Majka is a great comparator because regardless of the whataboutery in your head, the results demonstrate that he has come as close to a GT win as Pinot. And yet, as you imply, he is nothing particularly special

It's a shame that you feel the need the resort to personal insults.

You are just trolling here.

 

[macbindle]

You are just trolling here.

By all means, lay out your argument as to why you disagree.

 

[BlueRoads]

Just in that moment listening to the G. commentators talking about Maijka's stomach problems the last days and the tablets he had to take... not abandoning... but many riders have some kind of problems during a GT... just when the focus is not on them it does not get talked about like that, you just see them placed 5th and later 11th, and that's it...

 

[Breezy1985]

By all means, lay out your argument as to why you disagree.

How often has Majka done anything more than hang on as a top GC contender. I like the guy but his high GC positions have all been about hanging on as an also ran who the top guys really are not too concerned about dropping. Regardless of whether he fails at the end Pinot is considered a threat by top GC guys and affects any race he is competitive in.

 

[RedheadDane]

Regardless of whether he fails at the end Pinot is considered a threat by top GC guys and affects any race he is competitive in.

Also why I really wasn't that worried when he lost time the first few stages of the Vuelta - before dropping out. He'd said before the race that the plan was helping Gaudu, and going stage hunting. However, he needed to lose time before being allowed to go on the attack, because there were no way in a million years the other GC riders were going to just let him go, regardless of his words before the race.