I think he is very close to Aru when it comes to the climbing skills, and he will show it in France. Probably going to lose a lot on descents though
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I disagree. His climbing weakness is greatly exagerated. He didn't lose time on the last descent at the GDL. And that's down the Croix de Fer that he took the precious 2 minutes that made his Alpe d'Huez win possible. When his head is in the right spot, he can descend as well as most. In the descent of the Col d'Allos when he fell, I think he lost focus, went ahead of himself in a scenario that looked like a repeat of his '12 win in Porrentruy. Daydreaming in a descent like that will cost ya...damian13ster said:
As far as descending goes he is on Froome, Quintana level, no problems here if he's able to focus. He can certainly climb at Aru level, on longer climbs if he's in shape he is better than Valverde and Purito. Problem is he needs to be consistent throughout 3 weeks and he needs a stronger team. I think with the team Aru had in Giro and Vuelta he could've had similar results. Let Tour is different though, sadly he is probably more or less forced to ride it and he will probably never win.
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Well what's your point? Purito had a great season, arguably better than Pinot...
Alexandre B. said:
Well what's your point? Purito had a great season, arguably better than Pinot...
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True. He already committed to the '16 Tour in his interview/reaction to the course. BTW he's every bit as good as Aru, better than the aging Purito. The difference is the team. I hope FDJ doesn't send Geniez to Italy, Elissonde to Spain, and just load up for the Tour. Don't sprinkle what little talent you have. In '15 he was alone. Morabito may have been a great captain under other "programs", but with FDJ he's not much of a help. I still think Thibaut should force FDJ's hand and go for the Giro.Rollthedice said:
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Are you out of your mind SeriousSam? He beat Piti at the '14 TdF fair and square. Aru? We'll see. Purito? I think so.SeriousSam said:
He depends on the weather. If it's scorching hot again (duh its july!) he stands no chance of top 10
Better race il giro
Better race il giro
I believe that Pinot is every bit as good as Aru but he doesn't have the same support. If Pinot and Aru swapped teams Pinot might have won two GTs this year. I believe he would have been closer to Contador in the long Giro TT than Aru was.
His downfall is the team,way too weak to offer him the necessary support.Put him on a top team and he'll be up there with the big guys.His climbing is decent,he improved on the ITT skill,the only thing missing it's a "team".
TDF route is great for him,no need to go for Giro,Ventoux stage might already be on his sights.
TDF route is great for him,no need to go for Giro,Ventoux stage might already be on his sights.
Think he should go to the Tour as well. I can't see him beat Nibali and think the route in TdF generally offers him more opportunities. He won the biggest stage of Romandie, Suisse and TdF this year and is definitely in the top-6 climbers in the world and considering Nibali and Landa is ruled out GC-wised, he stands some decent chances at a podium.
Definitely one of the more intriguing question going into 2016, but lets not forget at the end of the day that he is French and the Tour is the Tour. I don't know what I am hoping for. Giro + Tour stage hunting would probably be the most fun, but I think he sticks to the Tour as his main target when it comes down to it all.
Definitely one of the more intriguing question going into 2016, but lets not forget at the end of the day that he is French and the Tour is the Tour. I don't know what I am hoping for. Giro + Tour stage hunting would probably be the most fun, but I think he sticks to the Tour as his main target when it comes down to it all.
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So? And what's Purito, a roleur? a sprinter? He came 2nd in Vuelta with a stage win, plus 2 stages from the Tour. Did Pinot topped that?
Alexandre B. said:
So? And what's Purito, a roleur? a sprinter? He came 2nd in Vuelta with a stage win, plus 2 stages from the Tour. Did Pinot topped that?
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Are you out of your mind? Pinot 2014 would never been able to match Valverde 2015 in a Tour with a way stronger peloton. There was clearly something wrong with Valverde in that Tour. He got outkicked by Ten Dam and Zubeldia in some stages ffs. I'd rank Valverde above everyone but the big 4 including Aru. Maybe higher than Nibali too.Tonton said:
Re: Re:
Pinot was able to match the GC group in Beille and in the Alps (5th fastest time on ADH), won three MTF at the World Tour level (against top field in Romandie, like a boss in Solden)...
In term of climbing, Pinot is currently on par with Purito. Not below.
Mr.White said:
Pinot was able to match the GC group in Beille and in the Alps (5th fastest time on ADH), won three MTF at the World Tour level (against top field in Romandie, like a boss in Solden)...
In term of climbing, Pinot is currently on par with Purito. Not below.
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But if you count being a good time trialist as a part of being a GC rider, I'm not sure he is in top 10 even.
Purito was a lot better than Pinot this year in terms of GC. When you are able to be the fastest rider on two of the hardest mountain stages and in top 3 on the rest, you are a top 5 GC rider. And he won a one-week race.Alexandre B. said:
But if you count being a good time trialist as a part of being a GC rider, I'm not sure he is in top 10 even.
Re: Re:
Piti faded badly at the end of the Tour '14. But he beat Pinot quite comfortably at the Tour '15, fair and square as you say. I don't think Pinot could beat top form Valverde, in any race, not just GT
Edit: And yes, I agree with SeriousSam, Pinot is below Valverde/Aru/Purito. He's in the same league with Uran, Landa and Majka. Of course he might prove I'm wrong next few seasons, but until then...
Tonton said:
Piti faded badly at the end of the Tour '14. But he beat Pinot quite comfortably at the Tour '15, fair and square as you say. I don't think Pinot could beat top form Valverde, in any race, not just GT
Edit: And yes, I agree with SeriousSam, Pinot is below Valverde/Aru/Purito. He's in the same league with Uran, Landa and Majka. Of course he might prove I'm wrong next few seasons, but until then...
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Faded badly, so what? It's the race. You can't dismiss '14, turn around and talk about '15 when Pinot also had his share of misfortune. It's the race. And we may look back in a few years and see his '15 TdF as a blessing. Until then, things came a little bit too easy IMO. He showed great mental strength by not DNF, he hung in there when the French public was hammering him on social media. He overcame disillusions in Mende, then after his crash in the CdA descent, and finally got a well deserved win in AdH. He grew. So I hope he proves you wrong indeed: he's far from having reached his ceiling. My big worry is that he doesn't have a strong team.bala v said:
But Tonton, it was a Valverde who was struggling against Ten Dam, König and Zubeldia. It's not a great reference point.
Then I could use Nibali's record in one-week races and weak/tired competition in GC to prove that he is not a top 10 climber.
Then I could use Nibali's record in one-week races and weak/tired competition in GC to prove that he is not a top 10 climber.
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Are you?! Valverde is a GT winner, 7 time podium finisher, 13 times Top 10 finisher in GT's, and you're comparing Thibaut Pinot with him!!! Valverde beats that same Thibaut Pinot in aprox. 95% races they enter!
Tonton said:
Are you?! Valverde is a GT winner, 7 time podium finisher, 13 times Top 10 finisher in GT's, and you're comparing Thibaut Pinot with him!!! Valverde beats that same Thibaut Pinot in aprox. 95% races they enter!
Re:
I understand that Valverde has a HUGE palmares. I actually like his riding style (not his tactics, often too defensive IMO). But as we finish this season, in a GT, I think that Pinot is in the same category as Valverde: in a group of 4-5 guys behind the Big4. Not in a category below. I would add that if you give him Valverde's team and medicine cabinet, the Big4 is a Big5. Let's not ignore the elephant in the room.
It's not me making this argument: it's you guys. In '15 there were a bunch of guys ahead of Pinot in the final GC that are not as good as he is. My point is: don't use '15 if you dismiss '14. Take both or leave both. That being said, Valverde was in a great position to podium in '14. He was fading week 3, but it was the final ITT that did him.Velolover2 said:
I understand that Valverde has a HUGE palmares. I actually like his riding style (not his tactics, often too defensive IMO). But as we finish this season, in a GT, I think that Pinot is in the same category as Valverde: in a group of 4-5 guys behind the Big4. Not in a category below. I would add that if you give him Valverde's team and medicine cabinet, the Big4 is a Big5. Let's not ignore the elephant in the room.
Check him out on Strava, not messing around, and with a multi-national following. BTW, there's no data missing with Thibaut Pinot, it's all in the open. Go Thibaut!
Tonton said:
I'm glad I don't live where he does...I'd never (and prob most other people) hold the lead in any Strava segments he has done.
Jspear said:Tonton said:
I'm glad I don't live where he does...I'd never (and prob most other people) hold the lead in any Strava segments he has done.
you can crush some downhill segments
Thibaut Pinot said he will do the Giro in 2017.
http://www.cyclingpro.net/velopro/road/tete-d-affiche-thibaut-pinot-axer-mon-travail-sur-le-chrono (in french)
http://www.cyclingpro.net/velopro/road/tete-d-affiche-thibaut-pinot-axer-mon-travail-sur-le-chrono (in french)
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