Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[IndianCyclist]

2012 TDF stage win +top 10 @ 22years
2014 TDF 2nd
2018 Lombardia win
He is easily a top 5 for the GTs but his health does not allow him to compete to full potential. His mentality is to go for stage wins rather than GC. If he focuses on TT he loses climbing potential and vice versa. I am not sure that his exclusive focus on GTs is good. His potential for the Ardennes is untapped.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re:

When was it, that he took the world by storm, in the TDF? 2012? Him and Bardet turn 29 in a few months. They should be hitting their best years right now. Back then i didn't automatically assume either would simply win one or more TDF by now, but i would have thought they would at least have one or two GT wins between them. And now there is a new generation, that seems to be eclipsing them from the start. Bernal, Lopez, Gaudu. Even though i haven't followed them closely, i always liked these two French riders, but i wonder if it's still in the cards for them.

The Yates twins will eclipse everyone in GTs

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

The Yates twins will eclipse everyone in GTs

It's starting to look like it.

As far as Thibaut is concerned, according to the FDJ site he was off, and according to my watching, he fought but didn't have it. Sending Reichenbach in the BOD on stage 4 showed that something was wrong.

Pure conjecture on my side (and I'll bring water to Indian Cyclist's mill), Tibopino had just performed his best ITT in over two years at TA. I, for one, would like to see him in his '16 configuration tackle the TdF being a very good ITT rider and still a great climber: Romandie '16.

In the end, the way his calendar is set and with French fans and foes' expectations (terrible people, I know, I'm one of them ), all that matters is July. Where he did his best to date, and his worst to date. The '19 TdF is the big "rendez-vous".

I don't know what will happen. I don't know if Thibaut Pinot will ever win a GT. He showed at last year's Giro that he was willing to die trying. As a fanboy and a fan of credible cycling, his human side keeps the flame alive for me, a fan of the sport who got cheated time and time again.

Through it all, Tibopino fights back, does what he can. And he can do a lot, like in Lombardia, the best performance by a French rider in 20 years. maybe it inspired Jalaphillpe's whose MSR domination was a thing of beauty.

Best Giro Tour Vuelta result? 4-3-6. Really good and it's not over...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

It was 2014 that Pinot got on the Tour podium along with JC Peraud.

As IndianCyclist pointed out, i was talking about that stagewin with his manager going bonkers in the car.

The Yates twins will eclipse everyone in GTs

The Yates Twins are only 2 years younger. When i'm talking about a new generation, i'm talking about guys 5 to 6 years younger.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

It was 2014 that Pinot got on the Tour podium along with JC Peraud.

As IndianCyclist pointed out, i was talking about that stagewin with his manager going bonkers in the car.

The Yates twins will eclipse everyone in GTs

The Yates Twins are only 2 years younger. When i'm talking about a new generation, i'm talking about guys 5 to 6 years younger.

I thought you were talking about his podium. Sorry.

 

[SHAD0W93]

2012 everyone thought he and TVG were the next big things for their country and talent wise.

I hope he can do good but there is so many talented riders for every specialization, it's crazy.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

When was it, that he took the world by storm, in the TDF? 2012? Him and Bardet turn 29 in a few months. They should be hitting their best years right now. Back then i didn't automatically assume either would simply win one or more TDF by now, but i would have thought they would at least have one or two GT wins between them. And now there is a new generation, that seems to be eclipsing them from the start. Bernal, Lopez, Gaudu. Even though i haven't followed them closely, i always liked these two French riders, but i wonder if it's still in the cards for them.

It was 2014 that Pinot got on the Tour podium along with JC Peraud.

That says a lot. It was five years ago. Contador and Froome were out. Nibali won by about 8 minutes and was never troubled and Peraud also finished on the podium ! He's had five years to improve and he hasn't hit the podium since. Twice he was on target in the 2017 and 2018 Giro but illness and bad days stopped him and this has always been his problem in grand tours. He can't stay healthy for three weeks and he can't avoid bad days. His late season form last year was like a breath of fresh air. More of the same please. It's either multiple top tens continually or stage wins, classic wins and riding to his strengths. Plus not being one of the very best mountain goats and a mediocre time triallist in the modern era makes it almost impossible to win a grand tour as much as fans like him and want him to do well. Yes he will be well paid to be a GT team leader and I think that's another issue. Sportsmen have short careers and I can't blame him for for signing contracts as a GT team leader even if he has little chance of winning one based on what I have seen so far.

Stage hunting, one week races and hilly classics look to be a better fit. Plenty of riders have fallen into the same trap before but they still get paid to chase the elusive GT win even if wins would be more easily obtained in other races. He is no closer to winning the Tour now than he was in 2014 and you could argue that Bardet who does have multiple podiums in the Tour is also no closer than he was when he hit the podium for the first time. The new generation has already arrived as Quintana is also finding out. Five years ago there was no Dumoulin, Roglic, Bernal, Lopez, Mas and Yates bros or even Thomas. Now they are all rivals along with the usual suspects..........

 

[Tonton]

I can't disagree, but as a fanboy I will...at least for '19. And disagree that Tibo is not closer now than he was in '14. GC-wise, placings are misleading, at the '17 Giro he was the closest in time to the winner than any French rider since Jalabert won his Vuelta. And that was with terrible ITT performances, day off on the Umbrail stage after a rest day. Yes, that got him room to make some up on stage 18 or 19. So, at the very least, plus the '18 Giro, Thibaut Pinot is a solid podium contender. Winning is a whole different thing, so I understand the doubters.

Le Tour is the stated main objective, after it's over there may be a new reality, like Virenque to polka dots and stage wins, be the chouchou. The July sexy Frenchie, perrenial GDL contender, and why not AGR or LBL. It's too early now, but if Tibopino is a non-factor at the TdF, there will be decisions made, including not re-signing him, and having Il Squalo as his DS in an Italian team would please me very much.

Did Thibaut Pinot catch lightning in a bottle last fall, can he do it again? That Pinot was unstoppable. What a breath of fresh air it was. And it may have inspired Alaf' in MSR: French riders can win the biggest races on their own merit, not just by taking advantage of circumstances, i.e. Brochard.

July is a big rendez-vous, a career milestone. No doubt.

 

[movingtarget]

I can't disagree, but as a fanboy I will...at least for '19. And disagree that Tibo is not closer now than he was in '14. GC-wise, placings are misleading, at the '17 Giro he was the closest in time to the winner than any French rider since Jalabert won his Vuelta. And that was with terrible ITT performances, day off on the Umbrail stage after a rest day. Yes, that got him room to make some up on stage 18 or 19. So, at the very least, plus the '18 Giro, Thibaut Pinot is a solid podium contender. Winning is a whole different thing, so I understand the doubters.

Le Tour is the stated main objective, after it's over there may be a new reality, like Virenque to polka dots and stage wins, be the chouchou. The July sexy Frenchie, perrenial GDL contender, and why not AGR or LBL. It's too early now, but if Tibopino is a non-factor at the TdF, there will be decisions made, including not re-signing him, and having Il Squalo as his DS in an Italian team would please me very much.

Did Thibaut Pinot catch lightning in a bottle last fall, can he do it again? That Pinot was unstoppable. What a breath of fresh air it was. And it may have inspired Alaf' in MSR: French riders can win the biggest races on their own merit, not just by taking advantage of circumstances, i.e. Brochard.

July is a big rendez-vous, a career milestone. No doubt.

So many French riders since Hinault have been touted as the next big thing. It's been a long time and it's a bit of a mystery why the grand tour results have been so disappointing. Until recently you could also say the same about classics wins. How far Ala can go in grand tours, it's too early to say but at the moment he doesn't strike me as a Valverde type who could be very good at most types of races. First I would like to see him prepare for a GT result instead of maybe winning a stage here and there. A lot of things used to be said even by the French veterans, that French riders are spoilt, they don't have a work ethic like some other riders, they are unmotivated etc........I think these days it's much harder for team managers to accept that type of behavior with the current status of the sport.

Maybe the French did lag behind in some of the newer changes to the sport re nutrition and training and maybe their best riders were over protected but I also believe that success is cyclical as we have seen with other nations who have also had great periods then a lull. The Spanish have also been concerned about the post Contador/Valverde years. Even the USA, Hampsten and Lemond were a long time ago. No wonder they were so excited about Tejay after his fifth place in the Tour 2012. British and Colombian cycling are in rude health but the with the current Colombian talent pool, wins will be expected not podiums. Italy post Nibali is not looking too flash either as Aru hasn't consolidated but see what happens after his health problems are fixed. If the Dutch can return after so many years to the top step re Dumoulin, there is no reason the French shouldn't be able to do it either but they have to find the right talent to do it.

 

[Koronin]

I can't disagree, but as a fanboy I will...at least for '19. And disagree that Tibo is not closer now than he was in '14. GC-wise, placings are misleading, at the '17 Giro he was the closest in time to the winner than any French rider since Jalabert won his Vuelta. And that was with terrible ITT performances, day off on the Umbrail stage after a rest day. Yes, that got him room to make some up on stage 18 or 19. So, at the very least, plus the '18 Giro, Thibaut Pinot is a solid podium contender. Winning is a whole different thing, so I understand the doubters.

Le Tour is the stated main objective, after it's over there may be a new reality, like Virenque to polka dots and stage wins, be the chouchou. The July sexy Frenchie, perrenial GDL contender, and why not AGR or LBL. It's too early now, but if Tibopino is a non-factor at the TdF, there will be decisions made, including not re-signing him, and having Il Squalo as his DS in an Italian team would please me very much.

Did Thibaut Pinot catch lightning in a bottle last fall, can he do it again? That Pinot was unstoppable. What a breath of fresh air it was. And it may have inspired Alaf' in MSR: French riders can win the biggest races on their own merit, not just by taking advantage of circumstances, i.e. Brochard.

July is a big rendez-vous, a career milestone. No doubt.

So many French riders since Hinault have been touted as the next big thing. It's been a long time and it's a bit of a mystery why the grand tour results have been so disappointing. Until recently you could also say the same about classics wins. How far Ala can go in grand tours, it's too early to say but at the moment he doesn't strike me as a Valverde type who could be very good at most types of races. First I would like to see him prepare for a GT result instead of maybe winning a stage here and there. A lot of things used to be said even by the French veterans, that French riders are spoilt, they don't have a work ethic like some other riders, they are unmotivated etc........I think these days it's much harder for team managers to accept that type of behavior with the current status of the sport.

Maybe the French did lag behind in some of the newer changes to the sport re nutrition and training and maybe their best riders were over protected but I also believe that success is cyclical as we have seen with other nations who have also had great periods then a lull. The Spanish have also been concerned about the post Contador/Valverde years. Even the USA, Hampsten and Lemond were a long time ago. No wonder they were so excited about Tejay after his fifth place in the Tour 2012. British and Colombian cycling are in rude health but the with the current Colombian talent pool, wins will be expected not podiums. Italy post Nibali is not looking too flash either as Aru hasn't consolidated but see what happens after his health problems are fixed. If the Dutch can return after so many years to the top step re Dumoulin, there is no reason the French shouldn't be able to do it either but they have to find the right talent to do it.

Good overall evaluation of the state of cycling of several countries.
Right now with Pinot, Bardet, and Ala the French appear to have the best group of riders they've had in a long time. Ala hasn't shown the climbing abilities that Valverde has to truly compete for GC in most types of stage races. Valverde showed his versatility very early in his career with a podium at both the Worlds and la Vuelta in 2003.
The Spanish are still very concerned. They have a lot of hope tied to Marc Soler and Enric Mas. Even they both do well, they aren't Contador and Valverde. I think the Spanish understand they are seeing the tail end right now of their "golden era" of cyclists with Valverde still there, but almost 40 years old.

 

[Tonton]

Meanwhile, as the battle for the Giro intensifies, Tibopino is flying under the radar, submarine when all look at battleships. For once, I see a team effort to scout stages and climbs, the lack of due diligence that drove me nuts before, i.e. '17 Giro. Today, Tibo against lesser competition, literally kicked @ss. It was expected, but he did more than wait and win: he killed them: Geniez at 5 minutes...Contador liked it, so do I.

 

[Tonton]

I was following the CN live updates at work this morning and finally got to read the stage thread and you guys/gals live comments, as well as whatever tape and highlights are out there. El Tibo was feisty today. We could point at older aggressive episodes, but it seems to me that since his misfortunes at last year's Giro, he's racing with a chip on his shoulder. Maybe I'm wrong.

It was a mighty PInot today. He can win Le Dauphine. Needless to say, I'm ecstatic .

 

[perico]

I personally still think Pinot has a better shot at breaking the drought than Bardet. I admire his style and he's become a much more complete rider.

 

[movingtarget]

Pinot looking good and aggressive.

 

[Bolder]

When I read comments like Froome's about how hard Pinot pushed on a rolling stage, I can't help but think his real strength right now might be in one-day races. He's had some great results. I love Pinot as a naturalized French citizen (not as much as Tonton of course) but I think his ceiling in GTs is possible podium rather than top step.

Also, have you seen his personal web site? It's pretty well done, especially the "P" logo...https://www.thibautpinot.com/. I didn't realize just how good he was at 19,20.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Apparently he worked a lot on his TT durning the last month, I'm curious to see the results tomorrow.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

When I read comments like Froome's about how hard Pinot pushed on a rolling stage, I can't help but think his real strength right now might be in one-day races. He's had some great results. I love Pinot as a naturalized French citizen (not as much as Tonton of course) but I think his ceiling in GTs is possible podium rather than top step.

Also, have you seen his personal web site? It's pretty well done, especially the "P" logo...https://www.thibautpinot.com/. I didn't realize just how good he was at 19,20.

Unless he takes the next step and starts hitting the podium again he will always be looked at as a top 5 grand tour possibility, a bit like Fuglsang who also showed great form in one day races recently. Both of them look better over shorter stage races and classics, at least as far as the possibility of getting the win that is. The 2014 Tour was a long time ago and he wouldn't have made the podium without Froome and Contador crashing out. Hopefully he can make some gains in the TT and stay healthy for an entire three weeks. Both cost him possibly two podiums at the Giro in 2017/18.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

When I read comments like Froome's about how hard Pinot pushed on a rolling stage, I can't help but think his real strength right now might be in one-day races. He's had some great results. I love Pinot as a naturalized French citizen (not as much as Tonton of course) but I think his ceiling in GTs is possible podium rather than top step.

Also, have you seen his personal web site? It's pretty well done, especially the "P" logo...https://www.thibautpinot.com/. I didn't realize just how good he was at 19,20.

Congrats on the citizenship...almost 23 years in the US, I'm thinking about it. And it won't take away my roots in Franche-Comte. As deep as they come.

I first noticed Thibaut as a 19 year old in the Tour de l'Ain, first atop the Grand Colombier, caught in the descent, and sprinting like his life depended on it for a 3rd place finish. There's a YouTube video...hilarious...no one has ever sprinted with that much intensity for a 3rd place at a Tour de l'Ain stage...no one.

Then '12 was too much too soon. The circus began. Then no win for about two years, and even a podium at the ''14 TdF didn't give Pinot much love: just a few posts ago, it's about Contador and Froome DNF: how about Valverde? Pinot beat him fair and square for this podium finish.

The rest is much better documented, some ups, some downs one brutal one at last year's Giro.

Having studied this animal, he's brutally honest and French fans have blamed him for lacking ambition. A Madiot interview revealed a lot, how Marc was trying to convince Thibaut Pinot that he could win the TdF and Thibaut countered that unless you first win one-week races, you can't realistically have that discussion. The La Vuelta, when his goal was a stage, winning stages in all three GTs.

He wants a podium in all three, and that's a big deal, heck we have a thread about it. He can do it.

One-day races: I hope that he doesn't wait for too long, because I feel that Thibaut Pinot can win, at least, LBL. And that brings another dimension. AGR why not.

Good dude, he could have moved thirty miles east and pay half the taxes, it's sad that we (as people) don't celebrate enough honesty and integrity, things that Cycling and the World needs more than ever.

Now his website is good, but not updated fast enough...

This TdF is a cross-road in Tibo's career. For sure.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Pinot is the kind of guy that you could see pulling an Evans once if everything goes right. He has been strong for 3 weeks in some gts and in some occasions he has been a top level climber and he has done some good TTs in the past. If the stars align and he puts it all together he could win something big.
The fact that the Tour has an easy sprint stage after both rest days really helps him.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Pinot is the kind of guy that you could see pulling an Evans once if everything goes right. He has been strong for 3 weeks in some gts and in some occasions he has been a top level climber and he has done some good TTs in the past. If the stars align and he puts it all together he could win something big.
The fact that the Tour has an easy sprint stage after both rest days really helps him.

i could believe that if he was more consistent with his results and a better TT rider.

 

[Tonton]

In the stage thread, I wrote that a top-10 would be great, beating Yates and Quintana would be good. So not that good today. But not all bad. Meh...

I noticed in the final ITT at the '17 Giro that Thibaut looked like someone lowered his saddle too much, it was weird. Same today: position is off, it looks like he fights against his bike. Weird.

Bottom line is: how does Pinot gain two minutes on Geraint (for example) if he wants to win Le Tour?

I'd settle for a podium, but geez, I want my guy to win it all. Someone help!

 

[Koronin]

Tonton, he needs to figure out how to put the TT and climbing together into the same race.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

If someone messed with his saddle, and he didn't notice it, he's a dumbass. When i move my saddle even half a centimeter, i notice this immediately. So i find it hard to believe, that someone lowered his saddle so much, that you could spot it on the television, but he didn't notice it when sitting his ass down.

As for his result. I don't know what more you could realistically expect. He finished ahead of Bettiol (who is somewhat of an ITT'er), finished only 15 seconds behind Politt (same). I think he risks losing more in the TTT than in the ITT to be honest, so even if he manages to lose under a minute to Thomas in the ITT, but loses 2m in the TTT, he's still f*ed.

I think he can hope that other teams go on the attack (Landa, Quintana, Dumoulin, Bardet...) as well and that Ineos sacrifice Bernal for Thomas, and it's all down to Thomas. If things get shaken up he might benefit from the chaos. But to be honest, i'm not seeing it. I think Bernal will not be dropped, and Pinot's team will be too weak in the TTT.

 

[Bolder]

Re: Re:

When I read comments like Froome's about how hard Pinot pushed on a rolling stage, I can't help but think his real strength right now might be in one-day races. He's had some great results. I love Pinot as a naturalized French citizen (not as much as Tonton of course) but I think his ceiling in GTs is possible podium rather than top step.

Also, have you seen his personal web site? It's pretty well done, especially the "P" logo...https://www.thibautpinot.com/. I didn't realize just how good he was at 19,20.

Congrats on the citizenship...almost 23 years in the US, I'm thinking about it. And it won't take away my roots in Franche-Comte. As deep as they come.

I first noticed Thibaut as a 19 year old in the Tour de l'Ain, first atop the Grand Colombier, caught in the descent, and sprinting like his life depended on it for a 3rd place finish. There's a YouTube video...hilarious...no one has ever sprinted with that much intensity for a 3rd place at a Tour de l'Ain stage...no one.

Then '12 was too much too soon. The circus began. Then no win for about two years, and even a podium at the ''14 TdF didn't give Pinot much love: just a few posts ago, it's about Contador and Froome DNF: how about Valverde? Pinot beat him fair and square for this podium finish.

The rest is much better documented, some ups, some downs one brutal one at last year's Giro.

Having studied this animal, he's brutally honest and French fans have blamed him for lacking ambition. A Madiot interview revealed a lot, how Marc was trying to convince Thibaut Pinot that he could win the TdF and Thibaut countered that unless you first win one-week races, you can't realistically have that discussion. The La Vuelta, when his goal was a stage, winning stages in all three GTs.

He wants a podium in all three, and that's a big deal, heck we have a thread about it. He can do it.

One-day races: I hope that he doesn't wait for too long, because I feel that Thibaut Pinot can win, at least, LBL. And that brings another dimension. AGR why not.

Good dude, he could have moved thirty miles east and pay half the taxes, it's sad that we (as people) don't celebrate enough honesty and integrity, things that Cycling and the World needs more than ever.

Now his website is good, but not updated fast enough...

This TdF is a cross-road in Tibo's career. For sure.

Don't put off citizenship. We know too many expats who decided it wasn't worth the effort, then things like Brexit and Trump happen...it was a haul here in France with dossiers seemingly a meter thick but we just plowed ahead.

Franche-Comte is a hidden diamond in France!

Would love to see Pinot focus on classics.

 

[Red Rick]

Can't believe how much worse his ITT position looks compared to a few years ago. It makes no sense to me.