Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[wheresmybrakes]

Uhm... aren't you guys forgetting a rather important detail regarding the whole "He needs to move" talk?
How the *** is he gonna bring all the goats?

Yeah, didn't think about that, did ya? It's all "Cycling! Cycling! Cycling!" with you people...

He could cut them up and freeze them for another day.

 

[RedheadDane]

He could cut them up and freeze them for another day.

You... have a sick twisted mind!

 

[wheresmybrakes]

check how many TUEs were granted recently across all Uci races and riders

Flippin loads in 2009, wonder who won the GT's in that year.

 

[Rackham]

Pinot has the unenviable distinction of being one of "the" most overrated riders of all time. But that's because he's French & they're eternally desperate for stars to generate interest in cycling & their Tour . He has one podium in the Tour de France. That's it. As far as statistics go, he's behind Bardet on the "French hopeful" list.

And I don't mean to sound harsh here but some of Pinot's comments in recent times have been pretty cringeworthy, i.e. for example year when he complained about all the comments/criticism he receives... when it's his own team over hype him up for sponsorship reasons & the media does what they're predictably going to do, i.e. also hype him. The more hyped a rider is, the more interest they generate & the more likely they'll receive criticism when things don't go according to plan.

And these recent comments where Pinot openly insinuates there are two cycling worlds at the moment were pretty low, i.e. one virtuous & clean which he believes in, and the other murky/cheating/doped of the "others" (i.e. riders who basically beat him). If that's what passes for "intelligent, deep thinking comments" these days, I only shrug & say "nope".

Other than that he's a decent rider who on form would generate some excitement in the upcoming Giro. But that's if he's on form (& I'm not even talking about him winning it either, because that's highly unlikely). If last year is anything to go by, he's facing an uphill struggle just to matter again.

Uhm... aren't you guys forgetting a rather important detail regarding the whole "He needs to move" talk?
How the *** is he gonna bring all the goats?

Yeah, didn't think about that, did ya? It's all "Cycling! Cycling! Cycling!" with you people...

Is this a joke? I mean he's a rich guy, i.e. I'm sure he has loads of family/friends/potential employees who could look after his goats if he lived elsewhere in Europe.

 

[Alexandre B.]

he needs to go to live in Andorra, avoid French races and French journalists (sauf TDF) possibly change team.

It's not for him to change. It's the peloton.

The people flocking to Gianetti/Matxin and so on.

 

[RedheadDane]

Is this a joke? I mean he's a rich guy, i.e. I'm sure he has loads of family/friends/potential employees who could look after his goats if he lived elsewhere in Europe.

Yeah, but something tells me he wouldn't want that. It's pretty clear that he enjoys spending time with his animals.

But, anyway; the bit about people on this forum only being concerned about cycling was partially a joke. After all; this is the Cyclingnews Forum not the Goatnews Forum.

 

[pastronef]

Or Girona. Get Lance's old pad, fridge, and all. He was so close to winning the'19 TdF that the one-week race stuff doesn't apply. Is he the new Vietto? If so, he'll be remembered. Bad luck, tears, giving it all. A Champion.

I didnt mean in the Lance way. I meant try to change environment. in his interview he says he´s nearer to the end of his career. I think he mad good money. He won´t do it, but I would have liked to see him change. let´s try! who knows. go in Andorra/Girona, stop reading l´Equipe, change team and avoid Madiot´s shouts, race TDU, Andalucia, Tirreno, avoid French journos.
my is just a way to think "what if" . what if staying away from the pressure of fans and journalists could do him good.

 

[pastronef]

It's not for him to change. It's the peloton.

The people flocking to Gianetti/Matxin and so on.

let´s try to see what happens if he changes, then we´ll see. (he won´t change we know)
did you see him on the Tourmalet and the next day in Prat d´Albis 2019. he was up there with the two speed peloton. as a previous poster said, he´s talented, some anology with Dumo too.
get out from the circular French narrative of every year, the pressure on him is gigantic

 

[BlueRoads]

But that would basically mean his injuries are psychosomatic, coming from all the stress.

 

[Bolder]

Alaphilippe is handling the French "pressure" pretty well. He's a much bigger sporting personality in France than Pinot is.

I love Tibopino, will always be a fan, but he is making some excuses for underperforming. The TUE chart above, if accurate, doesn't back up his complaints.

We know that on any given day he is as good as anyone in the peloton -- he's not giving away anything to anybody when it comes to "talent," whatever that is. So...what's missing? Conditioning? Preventative strength/flexibility training? Tactics? Race management? I dunno, but he is one frustrating rider to cheer for. I just could not believe that he couldn't seal the deal at the Dauphine last year. That was...in the bag.

It's possible that if he lived more in a rider bubble like Girona or Monaco, or was on a different team, that he might achieve more, but he isn't, and hasn't.

 

[pastronef]

Alaphilippe is handling the French "pressure" pretty well. He's a much bigger sporting personality in France than Pinot is.

I love Tibopino, will always be a fan, but he is making some excuses for underperforming. The TUE chart above, if accurate, doesn't back up his complaints.

We know that on any given day he is as good as anyone in the peloton -- he's not giving away anything to anybody when it comes to "talent," whatever that is. So...what's missing? Conditioning? Preventative strength/flexibility training? Tactics? Race management? I dunno, but he is one frustrating rider to cheer for. I just could not believe that he couldn't seal the deal at the Dauphine last year. That was...in the bag.

It's possible that if he lived more in a rider bubble like Girona or Monaco, or was on a different team, that he might achieve more, but he isn't, and hasn't.

that´s what I mean. I dont want to offend Pinot or his fans, nor the French public. I´d just be curious.

 

[RedheadDane]

I love Tibopino, will always be a fan, but he is making some excuses for underperforming. The TUE chart above, if accurate, doesn't back up his complaints.

The point still stands that there are some riders who are willing to exploit the grey areas of TUEs, and other riders - himself included - who... aren't. As he points out; he might have avoided that DNF in the 2019 TdF - and the one in the Giro the year before - if he'd just gotten a TUE. However, he didn't, and we all know what happened.
Also, I suspect the numbers in that chart only includes riders who got TUEs on a "short term" basis, because I can think of a bunch of riders who I - think - have permanent TUEs.

 

[pastronef]

yes. as an example the Novo-Nordisk TUEs have a 10 years validity iirc. that chart shows that not many riders got the same kind of TUE Pinot would have needed during his race injuries

 

[johnymax]

Uhm... aren't you guys forgetting a rather important detail regarding the whole "He needs to move" talk?
How the *** is he gonna bring all the goats?

Yeah, didn't think about that, did ya? It's all "Cycling! Cycling! Cycling!" with you people...

Yeah, with sheep would be easier. You move one, all the others follow.

 

[RedheadDane]

Yeah, with sheep would be easier. You move one, all the others follow.

Would still be... quite a treck!

 

[Oldermanish]

He could cut them up and freeze them for another day.

This is just wrong in so many ways. They're small and cute.....

 

[Bolder]

The point still stands that there are some riders who are willing to exploit the grey areas of TUEs, and other riders - himself included - who... aren't. As he points out; he might have avoided that DNF in the 2019 TdF - and the one in the Giro the year before - if he'd just gotten a TUE. However, he didn't, and we all know what happened.
Also, I suspect the numbers in that chart only includes riders who got TUEs on a "short term" basis, because I can think of a bunch of riders who I - think - have permanent TUEs.

Oh, I agree 100%. But IMO there's a huge difference between gray areas of TUEs and full on clinic. I don't want to edge into Clinic territory, but the numbers of TUE are just numbers. Whether they are long- or short-term, there are fewer active ones now.

Pinot could turn out to be a Fuglsang, blooming in his mid 30s, or he could be a Dumoulin, hanging it up next year to make goat cheese.

 

[RedheadDane]

Pinot could turn out to be a Fuglsang, blooming in his mid 30s, or he could be a Dumoulin, hanging it up next year to make goat cheese.

And he's already had far more success than Fuglsang had when he was the same age.

 

[Oldermanish]

Oh, I agree 100%. But IMO there's a huge difference between gray areas of TUEs and full on clinic. I don't want to edge into Clinic territory, but the numbers of TUE are just numbers. Whether they are long- or short-term, there are fewer active ones now.

Pinot could turn out to be a Fuglsang, blooming in his mid 30s, or he could be a Dumoulin, hanging it up next year to make goat cheese.

At least he wouldn't be making goatburgers!

 

[Salvarani]

I dont think he is "overrated" in terms of talent. When in great form he has showed that very few can beat him.

In GTs it has just not worked out for him. I dont think that makes him "overrated". He is just a great of example of how hard it is to get everything right and how easy/fast it can get taken away.

The ability and talent he definitely possesses. It just hasnt translated into the results it should have, for different reasons, yet.

 

[Tonton]

Alaphilippe is handling the French "pressure" pretty well. He's a much bigger sporting personality in France than Pinot is.

I love Tibopino, will always be a fan, but he is making some excuses for underperforming. The TUE chart above, if accurate, doesn't back up his complaints.

We know that on any given day he is as good as anyone in the peloton -- he's not giving away anything to anybody when it comes to "talent," whatever that is. So...what's missing? Conditioning? Preventative strength/flexibility training? Tactics? Race management? I dunno, but he is one frustrating rider to cheer for. I just could not believe that he couldn't seal the deal at the Dauphine last year. That was...in the bag.

It's possible that if he lived more in a rider bubble like Girona or Monaco, or was on a different team, that he might achieve more, but he isn't, and hasn't.

Pinot was not making excuses, it was his first cortisone shot and he saw what it did, the effect, that was a big eye-opener.

We are borderline here, we must follow the rules...yep, remember when I was a mod? I would have sent some PMs by now...and then the axe will fall, no ones fault but ours.

2021 is big for him, rebound, he can podium (or more I hope) at Il Giro, Olympics we'll see, I wish him all the best. He will give it all, I can't ask for more.

The pressure to be the next Hinault is massive, like be the next Merckx for Belgian riders, it can be too much, but that's life. When I started riding, Fons was the new Merckx, he had a career that so many pro riders would have wanted, it wasn't enough. Most here probably don't even know his name: Fons De Wolf: Check him out.

Tibopino's story is not over. He can win, he can dominate, maybe not for three weeks, but the best Thibaut Pinot is a thing of beauty.

 

[Roku]

Well, I wasn't born when Fons de Wolf was riding, but as far as I know, his main problem was not copying with pressure, he just did not fit in the lifestyle of a pro rider.

 

[Tonton]

Well, I wasn't born when Fons de Wolf was riding, but as far as I know, his main problem was not copying with pressure, he just did not fit in the lifestyle of a pro rider.

The lifestyle part I don't know, what I know is what TV and press were saying after his '79 Vuelta, GDL-MSR back to back in '80-'81, he was 4th in that infamous '80 LBL, one article remains in my mind to this day, the title was: "La classe à l'état pur", class in its purest form...Fons was great on cobbles, hills, sprints, ITT, good but not great climber.

That was to be his next challenge: improving his climbing skills and be the next Eddy. Then LBL '82, a race he should never have lost...to add insult to injury, journos, fans turned away, Fons was a loser. He was never the same after that.

Different times, different riders, but the pressure to be the next icon is there. That won't change. Pinot will never be Hinault, but he can pick himself up, he's the dandelion that refuses to go away. Watch out!

 

[cantpedal]

Alaphilippe is handling the French "pressure" pretty well. He's a much bigger sporting personality in France than Pinot is.

I love Tibopino, will always be a fan, but he is making some excuses for underperforming. The TUE chart above, if accurate, doesn't back up his complaints.

We know that on any given day he is as good as anyone in the peloton -- he's not giving away anything to anybody when it comes to "talent," whatever that is. So...what's missing? Conditioning? Preventative strength/flexibility training? Tactics? Race management? I dunno, but he is one frustrating rider to cheer for. I just could not believe that he couldn't seal the deal at the Dauphine last year. That was...in the bag.

It's possible that if he lived more in a rider bubble like Girona or Monaco, or was on a different team, that he might achieve more, but he isn't, and hasn't.

I think it's more a race/Pinot management issue. He seems to go too deep one day in the 3rd week and DNF the next. He's consistently 1 day short in a Grand Tour.

 

[RedheadDane]

I think it's more a race/Pinot management issue. He seems to go too deep one day in the 3rd week and DNF the next. He's consistently 1 day short in a Grand Tour.

When has that actually happened?