Tiesj Benoot thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re:

Now the real question is, will he go for a 12th place in gc this Tour or is he fully targetting stage wins.

Lotto doesn't care for GC, especially with Benoot leaving. If it's up to them, they'll definitely pick the stagewins. Even back in the day when JVDB was a lock for a top 5, they never supported him, but stacked the team with domestiques for Greipel, hoping he could get one or two wins.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Now the real question is, will he go for a 12th place in gc this Tour or is he fully targetting stage wins.

Lotto doesn't care for GC, especially with Benoot leaving. If it's up to them, they'll definitely pick the stagewins. Even back in the day when JVDB was a lock for a top 5, they never supported him, but stacked the team with domestiques for Greipel, hoping he could get one or two wins.

Let's hope. That would be the first time.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

Now the real question is, will he go for a 12th place in gc this Tour or is he fully targetting stage wins.

Lotto doesn't care for GC, especially with Benoot leaving. If it's up to them, they'll definitely pick the stagewins. Even back in the day when JVDB was a lock for a top 5, they never supported him, but stacked the team with domestiques for Greipel, hoping he could get one or two wins.

Let's hope. That would be the first time.

What would be the first time? Them going for stages? Like i said, Lotto ONLY wants to go for stages. The times they thought they could go for yellow with Evans are 10 years behind us, when Coucke was still in control. And they never committed to JVDB's GC ambitions.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Now the real question is, will he go for a 12th place in gc this Tour or is he fully targetting stage wins.

Lotto doesn't care for GC, especially with Benoot leaving. If it's up to them, they'll definitely pick the stagewins. Even back in the day when JVDB was a lock for a top 5, they never supported him, but stacked the team with domestiques for Greipel, hoping he could get one or two wins.

Let's hope. That would be the first time.

What would be the first time? Them going for stages? Like i said, Lotto ONLY wants to go for stages. The times they thought they could go for yellow with Evans are 10 years behind us, when Coucke was still in control. And they never committed to JVDB's GC ambitions.

You make it sound as if that was an unreasonable quest. He did get second twice, riding for the team.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

That was not my point at all.

Since Evans left, they haven't commited to GC. Even JVDB only got 1 guy in support and he was a lock for top 10 (if he finished), all the rest was for Greipel or stagehunting. So why would Lotto now be backing Benoot for GC. It would be a big surprise to me, to be honest.

 

[Red Rick]

Is it confirmed he's leaving?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re:

Is it confirmed he's leaving?

Yes, he's said as much himself.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Now the real question is, will he go for a 12th place in gc this Tour or is he fully targetting stage wins.

Lotto doesn't care for GC, especially with Benoot leaving. If it's up to them, they'll definitely pick the stagewins. Even back in the day when JVDB was a lock for a top 5, they never supported him, but stacked the team with domestiques for Greipel, hoping he could get one or two wins.

Let's hope. That would be the first time.

What would be the first time? Them going for stages? Like i said, Lotto ONLY wants to go for stages. The times they thought they could go for yellow with Evans are 10 years behind us, when Coucke was still in control. And they never committed to JVDB's GC ambitions.

That they go for stages with a climber. Remember Bart De Clercq and Francis De Greef.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

That was not my point at all.

Since Evans left, they haven't commited to GC. Even JVDB only got 1 guy in support and he was a lock for top 10 (if he finished), all the rest was for Greipel or stagehunting. So why would Lotto now be backing Benoot for GC. It would be a big surprise to me, to be honest.

Fair enough.

I don't think he will get any help at all, either, and I don't find it to be very necessary. It's very unlikely that he will get a top 10 placing, and much more likely that they can get stage placings with Ewan (who needs the team much more anyway).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

That they go for stages with a climber. Remember Bart De Clercq and Francis De Greef.

Oh, yeah. If you look at it that way. There was Vanendert's stagewin ofcourse (who got to ride for himself after JVDB crashed in 2011). But to be honest, i don't know if Benoot has the punch to go for a stagewin as a climber. He's a grinder, not a punchy climber that drops his fellow break-away companions. So having him go stagehunting, might set them up to come up empty-handed. No stage, no GC.

Fair enough.

I don't think he will get any help at all, either, and I don't find it to be very necessary. It's very unlikely that he will get a top 10 placing, and much more likely that they can get stage placings with Ewan (who needs the team much more anyway).

Well, if they don't try, they'll never know. But again, since he's leaving the team, i assume that the team has little interest in nurturing possible GC ambitions. I don't think a top 10 is entirely out of the question. In fact, if he rides like he did this week, i can see him grind away a 9th place or something like that. But he could also finish 14th. Obviously, he's never going to be in contention for top 5.

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

Is it confirmed he's leaving?

Yes, he's said as much himself.

Will the new team try and make him a GT rider?
I could see Sunweb trying.

 

[Nirvana]

Re:

There's a mountains jersey to earn as well, since Ala might be in yellow until the Alps and Barguil hasn't been convincing so far.

If Alaphilippe wants to go in the breaks to pick points in the Massif Central they are going to let him go even if he's in the GC because they know he'll crack in the first real mountain stage, with the climbing level shown this year probably already PDBF will be way too much for him.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

That they go for stages with a climber. Remember Bart De Clercq and Francis De Greef.

Oh, yeah. If you look at it that way. There was Vanendert's stagewin ofcourse (who got to ride for himself after JVDB crashed in 2011). But to be honest, i don't know if Benoot has the punch to go for a stagewin as a climber. He's a grinder, not a punchy climber that drops his fellow break-away companions. So having him go stagehunting, might set them up to come up empty-handed. No stage, no GC.

Benoot is no killer, but he isn't that much of a shabby finisher that he desperately needs to finish solo either. I'd say chances are still bigger that he wins a stage than finish top 10 in gc.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

let's not overrate this, he was at 3 minutes of Dennis who's not even an elite GC rider. And the field in Suisse was really weak.

edit: and yeah he's almost certainly going to sunweb. Both Ineos and Sunweb were trying to get him but latest news was Ineos failed to convince him.
Would be nice for Dumo at least, and for Sunweb to have another option in the classics and many other races

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re:

let's not overrate this, he was at 3 minutes of Dennis who's not even an elite GC rider. And the field in Suisse was really weak.

Yeah, like i said before. Tour de Suisse is no Tour of Utah, right, DT? :lol:

Bernal must suck considering he only took 19 seconds on this Dennis guy you mentioned. And it's not like there was a TT to lose time... o wait, there was.

Benoot is no killer, but he isn't that much of a shabby finisher that he desperately needs to finish solo either. I'd say chances are still bigger that he wins a stage than finish top 10 in gc.

Have you by chance, looked at Benoot's long list of wins, since becoming a pro? Other than his win in Strade, he has won three youth jerseys in Algarve. Thats it. I actually do think he has a bigger shot (how small it may be) of finishing 10th in GC, than getting a stagewin, for him. He's a constant performer, who has the engine to do this for three weeks, but he's simply not a winner, nor a finisher.

Is it confirmed he's leaving?

Yes, he's said as much himself.

Will the new team try and make him a GT rider?
I could see Sunweb trying.

I always found it baffling, that considering his results, they never even tried to see how far he could go with a decent prep. He was 26th in his first year as a pro in Dauphiné. He had just turned 21 then. Next year, he was 17th in Suisse and climbing really well when he DNF, and he finished 5th in Tour of Poland in GC. The year after that he finished 20th in the Tour and 12th in Dauphiné. Not too shabby for a classics guy. For any other 21-23 year old, not named Bernal, Sivakov, Pogacar or Evenepoel, that was supposed to become a GC rider, these would be encouraging results.

So, Benoot has gone full climber now? Strong week from him

I wouldn't call outclimbing Rob Britton and Nicolas Roche 'going full climber'.

But Rob Britton won Utah the year before Kuss, and we all know this is an elite race! Somebody should make a Rob Britton thread.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

So, Benoot has gone full climber now? Strong week from him

I wouldn't call outclimbing Rob Britton and Nicolas Roche 'going full climber'.

Well, he climbed just a tad worse than Jan Hirt, who - when on form - is amongst best climbers.

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

let's not overrate this, he was at 3 minutes of Dennis who's not even an elite GC rider.

Well, he was 3 minutes from Bernal, who is an elite GC rider. That sounds a lot different, right? 3 minutes is not huge chunk of time for the profile Tour de Suisse had this year.

Field at the Tour de Suisse wasn't that strong, but wasn't really that weak either.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Benoot is no killer, but he isn't that much of a shabby finisher that he desperately needs to finish solo either. I'd say chances are still bigger that he wins a stage than finish top 10 in gc.

Have you by chance, looked at Benoot's long list of wins, since becoming a pro? Other than his win in Strade, he has won three youth jerseys in Algarve. Thats it. I actually do think he has a bigger shot (how small it may be) of finishing 10th in GC, than getting a stagewin, for him. He's a constant performer, who has the engine to do this for three weeks, but he's simply not a winner, nor a finisher.

And how often has he gone stage hunting in his career so far?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

And how often has he gone stage hunting in his career so far?

That's the thing. Starting a GT with that mindset, doesn't mean you will actually be in a position to do so automatically. He finished last year's Vuelta over 3 hours down in GC. He only finished one stage in the top 10. The year he finished 20th in GC in the TDF, there were 3 stages he finished in the top 10.

 

[F_Cance]

Re: Re:

let's not overrate this, he was at 3 minutes of Dennis who's not even an elite GC rider.

Well, he was 3 minutes from Bernal, who is an elite GC rider. That sounds a lot different, right? 3 minutes is not huge chunk of time for the profile Tour de Suisse had this year.

Field at the Tour de Suisse wasn't that strong, but wasn't really that weak either.

In germany we say "A good horse jumps only as high as it has to." I think this is fitting for Bernals TdS.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

let's not overrate this, he was at 3 minutes of Dennis who's not even an elite GC rider.

Well, he was 3 minutes from Bernal, who is an elite GC rider. That sounds a lot different, right? 3 minutes is not huge chunk of time for the profile Tour de Suisse had this year.

Field at the Tour de Suisse wasn't that strong, but wasn't really that weak either.

In germany we say "A good horse jumps only as high as it has to." I think this is fitting for Bernals TdS.

He had 19 seconds on Dennis. One flat tyre and Dennis takes it.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

And how often has he gone stage hunting in his career so far?

That's the thing. Starting a GT with that mindset, doesn't mean you will actually be in a position to do so automatically. He finished last year's Vuelta over 3 hours down in GC. He only finished one stage in the top 10. The year he finished 20th in GC in the TDF, there were 3 stages he finished in the top 10.

The thing is, he never really did. Last year's Vuelta isn't a benchmark since he came out of the Tour all bruised and battered and his shape right now is obviously infinitely better compared to then.

But I'm afraid he's going for gc anyway, unless he loses a big chunk of time somewhere in the first week.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

The thing is, he never really did. Last year's Vuelta isn't a benchmark since he came out of the Tour all bruised and battered and his shape right now is obviously infinitely better compared to then.

But I'm afraid he's going for gc anyway, unless he loses a big chunk of time somewhere in the first week.

That was somewhat my point. It's not because he didn't really get the chance to contend for a stage, that that wasn't his goal. He was in good form going into the tour last year as well (not as good as the year before or this year, but still, 14th in Dauphiné) and i remember the plan for the TDF was not GC but stages.

Maybe we can conclude that we don't really know where his limits lie for neither (GC nor stagehunting). Since it seems like he never really committed to either. He went into the TDF two years ago, blank, without specific prep. And like you mentioned, he never really committed to stagehunting either. A bit "noch vis noch vlees" (neither here nor there). But with his current form it would be a waste not to try and see where his limits lie as a GC rider. He's 25. If he loses time (which is always a big chance, due to a crash, a bad day...) he can still go for stages, the rest of the Tour and the rest of his carreer.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

let's not overrate this, he was at 3 minutes of Dennis who's not even an elite GC rider.

Well, he was 3 minutes from Bernal, who is an elite GC rider. That sounds a lot different, right? 3 minutes is not huge chunk of time for the profile Tour de Suisse had this year.

Field at the Tour de Suisse wasn't that strong, but wasn't really that weak either.

In germany we say "A good horse jumps only as high as it has to." I think this is fitting for Bernals TdS.

Could you use more accurate words and bother to elaborate? In my experience proverbs are often useless.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

As predicted:

Benoot placed a fine 4th overall at last week’s Tour de Suisse but Sergeant downplayed the idea that he or any of Lotto Soudal’s stronger climbers would target the general classification. Benoot placed 20th overall on his Tour debut in 2017.

"The Tour is about three topics: sprint stages, days for escapees and mountain stages. Only during the days in the mountains, it won’t be easy for us to take a stage win and attacking will be the mindset of Lotto Soudal during those stages," Sergeant said. "Even though some riders already announced they won’t participate, we don’t have any real ambitions for the general classification. We are fully aiming for a stage victory."