ToC: Big Bear stage: no uphill finish

[usedtobefast]

So lame! They should have taken the race behind the sierra, Mojave to Whitney Portal? Bishop to Mammoth Mountain? So many better options. Looks like the big cities took precedence over good racing. Maybe finsih at Snow Valley Ski Area 15 miles earlier but still on the grade?

back when the Whiskey Creek Stage race was still in effect i race it several times the Bishop to Mammoth stage would be very cool. not as much climbing as the Big Bear stage, but finishing at 10000 feet, makes it hard to breath. been there and it would be gnarly. my pics, in my profile has a photo from
one year on that hill.

 

[BikeCentric]

are you just a a douchbag or am i not getting what you are spouting? it is at the
top of the mountain. you don't know what your are talking about.
all in a loving way, of course.

Yes I am a douchebag but you are not getting what I am saying.

The stage no longer ends at the summit of Big Bear. That's the issue here.

 

[usedtobefast]

Yes I am a douchebag but you are not getting what I am saying.

The stage no longer ends at the summit of Big Bear. That's the issue here.

i guess if you were hoping for a Ventoux type finish, no. but i don't think we are
going to see a group finish. the side of BB they go around is up and down and pretty technical in places(my family have a house up there) you then kick up to Snow Valley, so it is as high as the road goes. there really is no "summit' after you get to the town, until the ski lodge. i think it will be cool.
there really is no place you could put a finish before you get to the lake, just logistically it is barren mountainside or steep dropoff.

i think up Glendora Mtn Road to Baldy Villiage would be the steepest socal finish. i won a race up there back in the day. that is a very hard climb. that just keeps going.


http://maps.google.com/maps?source=...TF8&hq=snow+summit&hnear=Big+Bear,+CA&split=1

 

[Anonymous]

all i can say from reading the posts, is, you have not ridden those roads. some very steep up and down. it will be a very hard day.

http://www.amgentourofcalifornia.com/docroot/media/2010/Stage6-profile.pdf

http://www.amgentourofcalifornia.com/docroot/media/2010/2010-stage6-map.pdf

fyi, the road around the lake is not flat and is very technical in places.

They are going aroud the north side of Big Bear Lake (fawnskin) which is even easier than the small rollers just east of the dam (on the south side). The last "climbing" is coming up from Arrowbear to Snow Valley. Once they get to the start of the artic circle it is not hard, challenging or remotely difficult and that's much more than the final 10kms.

This is a very poor course design, but the racers make the race. Maybe it will be exciting but the thought of what could have been makes this extremely disappointing.

If there is a big group at Crestline there will likely be a big group at the finish and the race will in fact come down to the TT.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Point is, if they went up the northeast climb into Bigbear City and then across the lake straight into town it would be a much more selective climb with a much shorter run in to town.

 

[dolophonic]

Mt Baldy would have been a sweet Mountain top finish.
Don't start the whole Nor cal vs So. Cal war.... well o.k. maybe you should!
I heard the final day circuit race could be hard! .. let's hope so.

Horseshoe meadows would be even better but the Portal would be great too.
Those climbs may still be closed in may? or are they just too much?

 

[Mellow Velo]

WTF? The organisers seem to have lost their bottle.
Not at all impressed. All about the ITT again.
They moved a major Spanish PT race, that could host any number of MTFs, to mid/late March, when they will struggle.
Cali should have been given that slot, as the calander improvement would mirror the course improvement.
Not that far removed from it's February formula.
As for it being great TDF prep......
........rubbish.

 

[bianchigirl]

Great preparation for a race where MTFs far outnumber time trials

 

[stefrees]

Great preparation for a race where MTFs far outnumber time trials

spot on. i hope cav isnt forced into doing tour of california, as i think another cav v pettachi duel could be good fun, especially if lampre get a good train going

 

[Bluebeard]

I'm disappointed myself by the lack of a summit finish. I don't know the area, but is it possible to have the equipment / entourage available at the location of a Big Bear summit finish? I believe that is the only reason we don't get treated to Puy de Dome in the TDF anymore - no space for the parapharnalia attendant with televising it.

If there is the space and they have just decided to take the kickout of it, the next Toto Turns writes itself, as they really have just "Bottle"d it. It will be great to watch them go up the slopes, but there will be no pressure on LL, and the other old RS horses will be able to keep him within time enough to win on the LA TT.

It is a pity as it seems to be a really good stage up to the summit. Then you have a mostly straight looking section by the lake which would be ideal for a not greatly technical TT, or a mass peloton on the move trying to make up time on a breakaway. The slight incline at the very finish would suit someone who might be currently prohibited from cycling in the Giro.

The ATOC website describes it as the first-ever mountaintop finish in the Amgen Tour of California. That is a bit of a slap in the face.

 

[Highlander]

I'm disappointed myself by the lack of a summit finish. I don't know the area, but is it possible to have the equipment / entourage available at the location of a Big Bear summit finish? I believe that is the only reason we don't get treated to Puy de Dome in the TDF anymore - no space for the parapharnalia attendant with televising it.

If there is the space and they have just decided to take the kickout of it, the next Toto Turns writes itself, as they really have just "Bottle"d it. It will be great to watch them go up the slopes, but there will be no pressure on LL, and the other old RS horses will be able to keep him within time enough to win on the LA TT.

It is a pity as it seems to be a really good stage up to the summit. Then you have a mostly straight looking section by the lake which would be ideal for a not greatly technical TT, or a mass peloton on the move trying to make up time on a breakaway. The slight incline at the very finish would suit someone who might be currently prohibited from cycling in the Giro.

The ATOC website describes it as the first-ever mountaintop finish in the Amgen Tour of California. That is a bit of a slap in the face.

I agree. I also have never been to this part of the country, so I can't attest to how difficult the finish will actually be. However, if the ATOC wants to build up interest, they have to realize that the vast majority of the people watching it will have never ridden these roads themselves. Therefore, it seems very anti-climatic to learn that there is no mountaintop finish regardless of how tough the final few miles may be. If they couldn't put the finish at the summit, I would have at least liked to have seen it right at the bottom of the descent because that rewards those that can climb and descend rather than giving the peloton an opportunity to regroup and catch back or at least minimize the time gaps.

 

[Carboncrank]

Absolutely. I'm not going to even bother going to the stages near my home. What a waste.

What kind of fan has these guys in their back yard and doesn't go?

That is really, really lame.

They made the stage close to you even better than it already was.

I will be going 2500 miles or so to see it.

 

[Carboncrank]

The ToC organizers have announced that there will be, instead of an actual summit finish at the end of the Big Bear stage (the queen stage), there will be 10 km of flat after the climb before the finish. What a disappointment! It was my thought that one of the reasons for the move to May was to allow for an actual summit finish. Although over 10,000 feet of climbing will be endured on the stage the 10 km of flat leading to the finish will almost nullify
the gains made on final climb.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=6

I have to agree. This race sorely needs a mountaintop finish if it want to be taken seriously on the world stage.

However, the changes they made to stage 3 are very cool.

 

[Anonymous]

Pretty much a dud if you ask me. It looks taylor made to keep anybody from getting a gap on LL that he can't make up in the TT.

Its almost like some post Tour criterium. Just crown the little bald dude King of California and Water Carrier Extroidinare, and let everyone else race.

 

[Publicus]

What kind of fan has these guys in their back yard and doesn't go?

That is really, really lame.

They made the stage close to you even better than it already was.

I will be going 2500 miles or so to see it.

Reward excellence not mediocrity.

 

[Race Radio]

What kind of fan has these guys in their back yard and doesn't go?

That is really, really lame.

They made the stage close to you even better than it already was.

I will be going 2500 miles or so to see it.

I am glad you will finally be able to see your first bike race.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Well, this blows.

Zabriskie's chances just went up. So did Tommy D.'s.

Agreed, any loses by Dave Z will be made up on the 10km flat.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I am glad you will finally be able to see your first bike race.

as a present for his 1st bike race we could give him a book. I was thinking "Bike Races for Dummies"

 

[Race Radio]

Agreed, any loses by Dave Z will be made up on the 10km flat.

That climb is not that hard. Not steep and lots of up/down where Z, and others, could catch back on then hammer the last 10Km. There will also be plenty of Euros in shape at this time of the year so there will be a solid group.

I would expect a few climbers to lose big minutes early in the race so they can take off on the first climb and get away in a group. I think the organizers are way off on the amount of climbing for the stage. I think it is closer to 14,000 feet and it will not finish before 4:00.

 

[Mellow Velo]

So much for Bob Stapleton's 4th Grand Tour fantasy hype.

The Tour of Georgia manged a MTF, in April.
Instead of going down the Giro/Catalunya route, California seems to be heading in the direction of all the other May stage races: Dunkerque, Picardie and Belgium.

How does only beefing up one stage, but leaving the rest looking just like the February event, merit a major calander re-shuffle?

 

[mr. tibbs]

So much for Bob Stapleton's 4th Grand Tour fantasy hype.

The Tour of Georgia manged a MTF, in April.
Instead of going down the Giro/Catalunya route, California seems to be heading in the direction of all the other May stage races: Dunkerque, Picardie and Belgium.

How does only beefing up one stage, but leaving the rest looking just like the February event, merit a major calander re-shuffle?

And we all know the real US climbing happens in Utah

 

[Deagol]

well, Andrew Messick is the same guy who thinks "for right or wrong" the cycling season ends with the TDF, so this isn't much different than that cop-out

 

[usedtobefast]

Point is, if they went up the northeast climb into Bigbear City and then across the lake straight into town it would be a much more selective climb with a much shorter run in to town.

i was hoping the would use that too.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Of course a summit finish would be better, but if they push hard enough up those climbs then the peloton will be all strung out. It won't be like a sprinter's team will be all together working efficiently to catch the breakaway. It will be individuals racing individuals, maybe a few getting together. I mean, how much time can someone like DZ make up on a 10 mi stretch like that, over someone like LL? If it was a downhill finish I'd be considerably more disappointed.

I think race tactics might turn out to be particularly instrumental in this stage. The key might be to send someone ahead who is waiting near the top of the last climb to help the leader catch up with, or retain a lead ahead of, the others. Another possibility is for the race leader's team to keep the tempo high enough to prevent a breakaway like that.

But with over 12k feet of climbing, something has got to give.

Looking forward to it.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

It's still going to be a very tough stage because of the cumulative climbing, but I agree this change was not only unnecessary, but foolish.

I think I've posted over 10 times in here and other forums the various routes they could make use of to spice up the race and give it the reason it did for moving to May, and those suggestions didn't involve crossing the Sierras, or heading up to Mt. Shasta. And yet, this is the best they've got?

Something tells me politics came into play here, more than what's normally expected.