Todays idiot masters fattie doper

[smaryka]

Just out of curiosity, everyone saying "my dad at 70" or "the guys I know" how old are you/they or how long ago?

The 20 somethings from when the sport of cycling started its meteroric rise amongst the average person are the 40-50 somethings now. Cycling has been the new golf for 10-15 years. Racers who used to retire from serious racing at 40ish to become organisers etc. now race on into their 70s. Male HRT and the likes of Wegovy are promoted as normal natural wellbeing hacks for those who want to maintain their weight, strength, energy etc. as they age.

So I do wonder how out of touch people posting on this forum are. It may be the minority for whom HRT makes a difference enough for them to win and stand out, but I'm not convinced it's therefore the minority dabbling in it. I'm on a few other cycling forums where if a doctor prescribed T for low natural T, they insist it's not cheating and just levelling the field/letting them live their lives to the fullest/staying healthy. The cognitive dissonance is very noticeable.

 

[Pontiac]

Just out of curiosity, everyone saying "my dad at 70" or "the guys I know" how old are you/they or how long ago?

The 20 somethings from when the sport of cycling started its meteroric rise amongst the average person are the 40-50 somethings now. Cycling has been the new golf for 10-15 years. Racers who used to retire from serious racing at 40ish to become organisers etc. now race on into their 70s. Male HRT and the likes of Wegovy are promoted as normal natural wellbeing hacks for those who want to maintain their weight, strength, energy etc. as they age.

So I do wonder how out of touch people posting on this forum are. It may be the minority for whom HRT makes a difference enough for them to win and stand out, but I'm not convinced it's therefore the minority dabbling in it. I'm on a few other cycling forums where if a doctor prescribed T for low natural T, they insist it's not cheating and just levelling the field/letting them live their lives to the fullest/staying healthy. The cognitive dissonance is very noticeable.

Thank you for posting this! I really didn't want to respond earlier. I am one of those old guys (73 now) who raced as a kid and started up again as a master. The drug issue is real and and has been for a very long time. I sure saw it as a kid and though I started as a master and thought no way were masters doing it.....well, I was sadly mistaken. I'll be the first to admit that the majority of guys in the pack were most likely not doping. In any race, it's only 5% that are in the running for a win and once I got fit enough to win again, that is when I noticed the doping was widespread with the old guys in that group. It was enough to make me question my own mindset in wanting to win and seeing where it led other guys. Stand back for a sec and it all seems pretty stupid, again for just for those gunning to win....nothing against guys who can keep it in balance and are happy filling out the pack.

When I raced in France Hinault was famous for using that argument about hormonal balance! That crap filters down through the ranks. I took lots of the stuff the doctors gave me, just couldn't bring myself to do the testosterone, steroids or speed. But the docs always used to say, but you have to if you want to race at this level.

 

[Sciatic]

Having the means and actually doing that safely are worlds apart. There is no comparison between blood doping and ‘roids or growth hormone common in gyms. Those are much less likely to kill you if you get it wrong. I am also sure there are unscrupulous doctors but you would expect to read about tip offs occasionally? Risk your life to win amateur masters bike races? I’ll believe it when we read hard evidence.

Why would taking EPO (if that's what you mean by blood doping) be more dangerous or worse or more difficult than anabolic steroids? Yes, it they try to push their hematocrit to 60 it will risk cardiac danger. But all it does is add a synthetic version to a hormone that already is circulating, which tells the bone marrow to make more blood cells. It doesn't have overall systemic effects like anabolic steroids do. It's also a much easier injection (steroid injections need to go IM into large muscle, EPO injections are intradermal with a tiny needle).

 

[Sciatic]

Just out of curiosity, everyone saying "my dad at 70" or "the guys I know" how old are you/they or how long ago?

The 20 somethings from when the sport of cycling started its meteroric rise amongst the average person are the 40-50 somethings now. Cycling has been the new golf for 10-15 years. Racers who used to retire from serious racing at 40ish to become organisers etc. now race on into their 70s. Male HRT and the likes of Wegovy are promoted as normal natural wellbeing hacks for those who want to maintain their weight, strength, energy etc. as they age.

So I do wonder how out of touch people posting on this forum are. It may be the minority for whom HRT makes a difference enough for them to win and stand out, but I'm not convinced it's therefore the minority dabbling in it. I'm on a few other cycling forums where if a doctor prescribed T for low natural T, they insist it's not cheating and just levelling the field/letting them live their lives to the fullest/staying healthy. The cognitive dissonance is very noticeable.

I agree. It also suggests that folks think cyclists have more integrity than gym-bros or high-school football players taking steroids or women wanting to stay ultra skinny (via drugs). I tend to think cyclists have more integrity than some of those other myself, but I'm obviously biased as would be most posters here.

 

[Unchained]

Why would taking EPO (if that's what you mean by blood doping) be more dangerous or worse or more difficult than anabolic steroids? Yes, it they try to push their hematocrit to 60 it will risk cardiac danger. But all it does is add a synthetic version to a hormone that already is circulating, which tells the bone marrow to make more blood cells. It doesn't have overall systemic effects like anabolic steroids do. It's also a much easier injection (steroid injections need to go IM into large muscle, EPO injections are intradermal with a tiny needle).

This is sort of a trick question with a trick answer. There are tons of side effects for both steroids and EPO but with EPO you have to have doctors supervision for a while to counter act any blood clots and you can have some issues with nutrition.
I know people who have used it and you can get diarrhea to a degree were you see partially digested food passing and if you are not supervised by a doctor you could get blood clots, hypertension to the point of cardiac arrest and diarrhea type symptoms. From what I understand under a doctors care most symptoms can be mitigated. I said this in an earlier post but many medical norms in the US are being turned upside down or changed to a degree of practically being eliminated... We have an age grade national champ getting popped and you have to wonder.. At least I do..

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ0UF4sM3E4&pp=ygUUdGVzdG9zdGVyb25lIHRoZXJhcHk%3D

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nGXZmfu5JWQ&pp=0gcJCZEKAYcqIYzv

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H64KAkM0wF4

The last video is pretty good

 

[Sciatic]

This is sort of a trick question with a trick answer. There are tons of side effects for both steroids and EPO but with EPO you have to have doctors supervision for a while to counter act any blood clots and you can have some issues with nutrition.

I know people who have used it and you can get diarrhea to a degree were you see partially digested food passing and if you are not supervised by a doctor you could get blood clots, hypertension to the point of cardiac arrest and diarrhea type symptoms. From what I understand under a doctors care most symptoms can be mitigated. I said this in an earlier post but many medical norms in the US are being turned upside down or changed to a degree of practically being eliminated... We have an age grade national champ getting popped and you have to wonder.. At least I do..

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ0UF4sM3E4&pp=ygUUdGVzdG9zdGVyb25lIHRoZXJhcHk%3D

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nGXZmfu5JWQ&pp=0gcJCZEKAYcqIYzv

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H64KAkM0wF4

The last video is pretty good

So, I've been getting weekly EPO injections for over two years, 40,000 IU per injection, and know several other folks I've met through the clinic who take it as well. The hypertension effect that you describe is real if the dosages are pushed too high. The other side effects you mention are obscure and highly unusual. Of the hundreds of folks with whom I've discussed their own EPO use (in a private support group), no one has mentioned diarrhea. And these are folks (me as well) who are taking doses much, much higher than cyclists micro-dosing schedules. There are no nutrition issues, and no steps to monitor blood clots--just monthly bloodwork to determine HGB/HCT levels.
EPO went on the market in 1987, and there have been dozens and dozens of long-term research studies and on its efficacy, safety, and side effects in the thirty-five years since then. Of the various blood boosting agents used in medicine, it is among the most benign with the least side effects. Could someone harm themselves (mainly cardiac/pulmonary) by taking too much and pushing their hematocrit too high? Yes, of course. Can someone harm themselves by taking too much iron or too many other supplements? Yes.

There is, however, one problem I have with EPO--it's effectiveness eventually wanes and disappears, and the median duration for effectiveness to last is 2 yrs.

 

[Unchained]

A sub point to most of this , just how available technology and drugs are to regular people. I am not really sure if it's Sciatic's opinion or concluded collectively but I have an opinion that cyclists because of the UCI are the lowest of the low,
I think general public think gym rats eating supplements and shooting whatever for results are cleaner than cycling, cyclists.
Bike racing and racers are the butt of too many jokes and stereotypes because UCI has sat almost handcuffed for decades. Armstrong affair was never really resolved. There was more than compelling data that someone ( multiple people) at UCI, Trek, Nike, Gatorade all had knowledge.
Nobody in the world, including the UCI is sure why they are using bio passport, especially knowing for decades that it doesn't or hasn't worked.
Armstrong being worst case scenario, but other events like Festina, Puerto, long list, mostly caught by law enforcement and missteps by dopers who got caught up trying to keep lying straight.
UCI usually in the shadows, not the forefront. And even now UCI handing out punishment for some bizarre medical mosaic were tests from years ago are puzzle pieced together to come up positive.( abnormal)
Why is the UCI not using a testing regiment modeling after another professional sport who has drug testing?
It's something that to me is hard to argue, have UCI using bio passport, teams always on the edge of financial ruin, cycling stained with decades of dope scandal and no other pro sport comes close. No other sport and it's athletes are synonymous with drugs, cheating, doping and scandal.
UCI should be watching, reading like everyone else and know that they are behind, they can't win, free market and internet information have opened up thousands of additional angles for PED use, all the videos I posted above are easy access, the use of drugs to enhance, hair, muscles, mood, libido, performance at work, better quality of life are everywhere, absolutely exploding.. both in brick and mortar environments, online e commerce and tens of thousands of doctors and clinicians that see a path to profit. The UCI patchwork of cops catching some, spread out federations in US, Portugal, Spain, Colombia, etc catching a cheater here and there. Really really silly, ineffective system..the UCI is the equivalent to making YouTube videos about how cutting wood with an old style hand saw is best practice. They were behind years and years ago and they can't catch up but just keep on just because.