Tom Danielson is back

[pedaling squares]

I agree, the results to date don't match those statements. But he has to think of himself as the best or he won't stand a chance of winning. He's never struck me as being arrogant so I wish him good health and good luck.

 

[ludwig]

Consider the Context

I get irritated by fans dissing Danielson for not scoring Top 5 in the Vuelta, or failing to be the next Lance, or being a head case etc....

Sigh. Look if he was Top 5 in the Vuelta, wouldn't he be castigated as a doper in The Clinic? Isn't it possible that we fans aren't aware of the full context behind Danielson's performances or failures to meet expectations? I think there may be something more than stomach bugs or illnesses involved here. The guy might be trying to play it safe, he might be trying to keep it (relatively) clean. There might be a lot more variables involved here than Danielson's mental attitude.

People need to keep at mind that the first time Slipstream tried to compete in Europe (in Catalunya and Portugal) they got stomped--only a few of them finished each event. That's how hard these events are for clean(ish) teams. It might be good to remember these facts before castigating a rider like Danielson for not being the next Armstrong (or more accurately, the next Landis or Hamilton).

 

[Cogombre]

I get irritated by fans dissing Danielson for not scoring Top 5 in the Vuelta, or failing to be the next Lance, or being a head case etc....

Sigh. Look if he was Top 5 in the Vuelta, wouldn't he be castigated as a doper in The Clinic? Isn't it possible that we fans aren't aware of the full context behind Danielson's performances or failures to meet expectations? I think there may be something more than stomach bugs or illnesses involved here. The guy might be trying to play it safe, he might be trying to keep it (relatively) clean. There might be a lot more variables involved here than Danielson's mental attitude.

People need to keep at mind that the first time Slipstream tried to compete in Europe (in Catalunya and Portugal) they got stomped--only a few of them finished each event. That's how hard these events are for clean(ish) teams. It might be good to remember these facts before castigating a rider like Danielson for not being the next Armstrong (or more accurately, the next Landis or Hamilton).

I think that you are misunderstanding what most people is saying. I'm personally not castigating anyone for not becoming the next Lance (actually I say thank god he's not the new Lance), nor I think that anybody's doing that. The thing with Tom is that he's giving constant excuses about his performance, instead of saying "guys, I tried, but I can't", and now he comes with that statement.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Yes, exactly. And whether it's part of his own, or others doing, he's repeatedly been heralded as someone on the cusp of doing something really big. This has gone on for several years now, with one disappointment after another after another. And many of his these letdowns have been for odd excuses, right after he was expected to finally bloom.

 

[knewcleardaze]

He's back until the season starts, then the rubber of ambition will meet the road of reality. Sadly the last chapter of the drama will play out in the autobus.

Hubris, nemesis and catharsis.

The rubber of ambition meets the road of reality!
That's funny as hell!

 

[ludwig]

But he has done big things...

Yes, exactly. And whether it's part of his own, or others doing, he's repeatedly been heralded as someone on the cusp of doing something really big. This has gone on for several years now, with one disappointment after another after another. And many of his these letdowns have been for odd excuses, right after he was expected to finally bloom.

He's racked up a nice palamares. He's had some off years (04,07-08) but these were years of illness and/or adjustment. He's not out of line in classifying himself as an elite climber and TTist, and I'm sure the Vuelta contenders considered him a serious threat this year.


2009
Garmin-Slipstream
3rd: Overall, Vuelta a Burgos
1st: Stage 4 ITT, Vuelta a Burgos

2006
Discovery Channel
6th: Overall - Vuelta a España
1st: Stage 17, Vuelta a España
1st: Overall - Tour of Austria
2nd: Overall - Tour de Georgia
1st: Stage 5 - Tour de Georgia

2005
Discovery Channel
7th: Vuelta a España
1st: Tour de Georgia

2003
Saturn
1st: Tour of Langkawi
1st: Pomona Valley Stage Race
1st: Redlands Bicycle Classic
1st: Iron Horse (new record)
1st: Nature Valley Grand Prix
1st: Cascade Cycling Classic
1st: Tour de Toona

 

[gowiggo]

Danielson interview

http://cyclingreporter.com/2009/11/04/tom-danielson-the-interview-part-4/

 

[yakko!]

Nice saying Cobblestones! Hopefully a thread like this will only serve to motivate him!

 

[Anonymous]

... The thing with Tom is that he's giving constant excuses about his performance, instead of saying "guys, I tried, but I can't", and now he comes with that statement.

Unfortunately, saying "I can't" doesn't get you a professional contract next year. He has to be positive, as soon as he gives up, his career is over (Periero is a recent example of giving up)

I think despite what everyone is saying here, he actually has some pretty good results. Top ten in the Vuelta more than once is pretty impressive in my opinion.

I wish Tom all the best for 2010 and hopefully he gets a role in the tour team as a mountain domestique for VDV. Get through a GT as a helper, and then maybe focus on the Vuelta top 5 or podium if he feels he can.

As long as the guy never says the words "I can't" and always says the words "I can" I will respect him more than most other cyclists. To me TD is a clean rider who has one or two bad days every three weeks. A GT is very tough to finish, let alone rider for GC, so I think it's acceptable really.

He has been praised for so long now, but that's not his fault. He has talent, he has the fitness, and one day he will put the talent and the fitness together with the 3-week endurance and crack a top 5 in a GT.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I would like to see TD go well as he is not a lucky cyclist.

 

[Cracked Again]

I would like to see TD go well as he is not a lucky cyclist.

Maybe he can kidnap your fellow countryman Cadel Evans and perform ritual "cuddel" sessions until Cadels newfound luck rubs off on the sick one

 

[tifosa]

Danielson DOES get strong finishes. He also DOES NOT get strong finishes. It's when he DOES NOT, that the excuses come forth. At this point in his career, the reasons provided are no longer simple explanations of what went wrong, they're myriad excuses to justify failure. The excuses have become as predictable as the ebb of his results.

 

[blackcat]

he lost me at "I want to divorce you Kristin"

Kristin's corner was my fave!

 

[Cogombre]

Unfortunately, saying "I can't" doesn't get you a professional contract next year. He has to be positive, as soon as he gives up, his career is over (Periero is a recent example of giving up)

I think despite what everyone is saying here, he actually has some pretty good results. Top ten in the Vuelta more than once is pretty impressive in my opinion.

I wish Tom all the best for 2010 and hopefully he gets a role in the tour team as a mountain domestique for VDV. Get through a GT as a helper, and then maybe focus on the Vuelta top 5 or podium if he feels he can.

As long as the guy never says the words "I can't" and always says the words "I can" I will respect him more than most other cyclists. To me TD is a clean rider who has one or two bad days every three weeks. A GT is very tough to finish, let alone rider for GC, so I think it's acceptable really.

He has been praised for so long now, but that's not his fault. He has talent, he has the fitness, and one day he will put the talent and the fitness together with the 3-week endurance and crack a top 5 in a GT.

You misunderstood me, or I expressed wrong. I didn't say that he should give up and become an average rider. He can achieve very good results in the GT, as he's a good climber and TTer. What I meant is that, instead of giving excuses for not winning, he could be proud of his good results, as you pointed out, and of course be optimist for the next years. I really look forward to see Tom improving in his GT skills, but I don't think he should give more excuses. It's the excuses what I criticize, not his ambition.

 

[lagartija]

ok im having issues with the fact that Tommy D. gets more discussion than Pedro Horillo........maybe its just me , but TD , well , he sucks , there i said it..............

 

[Anonymous]

Seriously? Tommy D has a thread started on the 28th of October and is still on the first page on November 6th? Dude, either cycling is in the toilet, or not having a race to discuss just makes people stupid.

 

[Cracked Again]

Seriously? Tommy D has a thread started on the 28th of October and is still on the first page on November 6th? Dude, either cycling is in the toilet, or not having a race to discuss just makes people stupid.

Probably more of the latter but come on who is more easy and fun to rip on then Tommy D?

(Crowd screams at top of lungs) Lance Lance Lance u damm fool

not that I am a hater or anything

 

[Anonymous]

You misunderstood me, or I expressed wrong. I didn't say that he should give up and become an average rider. He can achieve very good results in the GT, as he's a good climber and TTer. What I meant is that, instead of giving excuses for not winning, he could be proud of his good results, as you pointed out, and of course be optimist for the next years. I really look forward to see Tom improving in his GT skills, but I don't think he should give more excuses. It's the excuses what I criticize, not his ambition.

Perhaps I misunderstood a little there.

I guess the issue that bothers me in these kind of threads (re: Cadel threads too) is that people are quick to point out that someone is making excuses for their performances

Personally, I don't view these as excuses, but rather reasons, for why their performance suffers.

At the end of a bad day, the interviewer will inevitably ask "What what wrong?"... Now if TD had a stomach complaint, or if Cadel coughed up plegm etc etc, then answering the interviewers question is not making excuses, it's just a reason for what happened.

I think people are taking these responses in a negative way and labelling a rider as a whinger or always making excuses. From where I am sitting, if a rider feels there was a problem that was out of their hands, then why shouldn't they respond to the interviewers questions with that problem?

I really do think the internet cycling media takes rider's perspectives out of context, which is why whenever I read a quote from a rider, I read it with caution as it is very difficult to establish their emotion and context behind their response.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

He's racked up a nice palamares...

He has, Luwdig, for a UCI Continental level rider. Problem is, he's always being pushed as a ProTour level rider, and a potential GT contender. To say "as good as anyone in the world on any given day" doesn't equate with races like Pamona Valley or Vuelta Borgos.

This is why I often compared him to Scott Moninger. A fellow American a few years older, who won many, many races. Many more than Tom ever will, on a fairly similar level, though I doubt Scott could have pulled a top-10 at the Vuelta. But Scott was very durable, and won way more than anyone ever imagined. But no one ever said he was the next great American, or could win the Tour, or was as good as anyone in the world on any given day. He just quietly kept winning.

 

[Hugh Januss]

He has, Luwdig, for a UCI Continental level rider. Problem is, he's always being pushed as a ProTour level rider, and a potential GT contender. To say "as good as anyone in the world on any given day" doesn't equate with races like Pamona Valley or Vuelta Borgos.

This is why I often compared him to Scott Moninger. A fellow American a few years older, who won many, many races. Many more than Tom ever will, on a fairly similar level, though I doubt Scott could have pulled a top-10 at the Vuelta. But Scott was very durable, and won way more than anyone ever imagined. But no one ever said he was the next great American, or could win the Tour, or was as good as anyone in the world on any given day. He just quietly kept winning.

He has kind of always reminded me of a guy who was around in the late 70's early 80's when I was at that level, who was totally Eddie B's favorite because on the ergometer he was E. Merckx +1. Unfortunately he had -3 tactical sense and a complete inability to stay on top of his bicycle, but they kept pushing him until he just quit. I can't remember his name now, and after that description I don't think I'd mention it if I could remember, but the point is at the time he was the great american hope.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

My goodness, I'm going to have to really put my thinking cap on to dig up that name. The late 1970s were very underground for cycling in the USA, but had some hardcore racers. Here's an off the cuff list of who it could be, as these guys all showed up on the radar, then somewhat disappeared...I think:

Dave Bole
Matt Sarna
John Cavanaugh
Mark Caldwell
John Eustice
Greg Demgen
Brad Davies
Danny Van Haute
Mark Pringle

(Yes, I know I left George Mount, John Howard, Bob Cooke, Jock Boyer, Roger Marquis, Jeff Bradley, Mike Neel, Tom Prehn, Tom Schuler, Steve Tilford, Gavin Chilcott, the Stetina brothers and others off that list of who's who from that era, because I really doubt it's any of them!).

 

[Cogombre]

Perhaps I misunderstood a little there.

I guess the issue that bothers me in these kind of threads (re: Cadel threads too) is that people are quick to point out that someone is making excuses for their performances

Personally, I don't view these as excuses, but rather reasons, for why their performance suffers.

At the end of a bad day, the interviewer will inevitably ask "What what wrong?"... Now if TD had a stomach complaint, or if Cadel coughed up plegm etc etc, then answering the interviewers question is not making excuses, it's just a reason for what happened.

I think people are taking these responses in a negative way and labelling a rider as a whinger or always making excuses. From where I am sitting, if a rider feels there was a problem that was out of their hands, then why shouldn't they respond to the interviewers questions with that problem?

I really do think the internet cycling media takes rider's perspectives out of context, which is why whenever I read a quote from a rider, I read it with caution as it is very difficult to establish their emotion and context behind their response.

You made a fair point there. But when someone has too many problem, and gives too many excuses/reasons/whatever, I tend to think that he's, rather than having a problem, looking for a reason of his bad (or not that bad) performance beyond the fact that maybe he just wasn't as fast as his rivals. I mean, maybe the problem was in his head, and not in his stomach. These are just assumptions, of course, but either Tom has really very bad luck, or my assumptions aren't so far of the truth.

With Cadel it's different, imo. But I don't want to highjack the thread.