Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[Leinster]

But would others agree? That is would other Sunweb riders put their ambitions, stage wins, aside, to help out Dumoulin? Not sure if Sunweb would have a realistic chance at this Tour

This whole Tour has seen them all regularly give up their stage chances to help one rider. Also, if they were going for gc their personnel would be different (No Bol, Kelderman at the Tour instead of TA, etc).

They probably wouldn’t win, but it’d be interesting to see how Dumoulin as a team leader against this JV team. He’s only lost time after putting in big turns for Roglic, he’d be coming into this 3rd week possibly pressing the podium spots, and with the TT to come on Saturday.

 

[CyclistAbi]

They probably wouldn’t win ...

Yeah.

but it’d be interesting to see how Dumoulin as a team leader

Highly likely we will still get to see that too.

 

[lenric]

But in the end Dumoulin choose, he doesn't want to be 1st in Sunweb pecking order. Therefore i can imagine, that is not all that great position to be in, or was for him. And i don't see on how Roglič could target 3 GTs per year, in the next couple of years. Anyway, back to the Tour, they still have to win it.

P.S. After roosters can peck.

Dumoulin didn't come to JV to win the Vuelta, or the Giro. He came to win the Tour. And Roglic's goal is also to win the Tour.
Thing is, time is against both of them.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I don't know what they will target individually for the next year, but likely Roglič will be interested in Giro.

P.S. But lets finish this season first.

 

[Leinster]

Yeah.



Highly likely we will still get to see that too.

You cut off the part where I said “against this JV team,” which was kind of key to the point I was making. I have no doubt he will get leadership chances with Jumbo, but I’m still on the “what if” had he stayed with Sunweb.

Although a part of that “what if” must surely be if he hadn’t crashed at the Giro last year.

Is there a chance we may yet see him at the Vuelta? He might feel he has some unfinished business after 2015.

 

[CyclistAbi]

You cut off the part where I said “against this JV team,” which was kind of key to the point I was making.

Hard to say as JV without Dumoulin is not the same JV. Still, realistically, Dumoulin would likely have had a hard time going against JV, with Sunweb, on the Tour 2020.

 

[HelloDolly]

Hard to say as JV without Dumoulin is not the same JV. Still, realistically, Dumoulin would likely have had a hard time going against JV, with Sunweb, on the Tour 2020.

Maybe Sunweb with Dumoulin would have had a hard time beating TJV and Roglic but it sure would have been better to see than a rider of big Tom class pulling the peloton

Dumoulin and Carapaz should not be GT Doms imo
But if you want the big bucks you must do what the paymaster says!!!
Dumoulin left Sunweb for money primarily ...it was either Ineso or TJV and he chose the Dutch team

 

[CyclistAbi]

Hard to say as for example watching Dumoulin racing for 6th place, or JV resulting to Movistar tactics ...

That likely wouldn't be all that great to watch.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Hopefully, this experience is rebuilding Big Tom's confidence as well as leveling up his fitness. Hoping this year he'll ride (and win) the Vuelta, then next year go in firmly as actual co-leader or leader of the Tour with the internal belief in his ability to win. In 2018, it sure seemed like he was the next patron of any GT he raced.

 

[Leinster]

Maybe Sunweb with Dumoulin would have had a hard time beating TJV and Roglic but it sure would have been better to see than a rider of big Tom class pulling the peloton

Dumoulin and Carapaz should not be GT Doms imo
But if you want the big bucks you must do what the paymaster says!!!
Dumoulin left Sunweb for money primarily ...it was either Ineso or TJV and he chose the Dutch team

In 20/20 hindsight, he’d be Ineos’ uncontested leader right now. I doubt he ever had an offer on the table from them, though?

 

[savornin]

Well, Dumo is not at the level of the Slovenians this year, still building form. But imho he would have been a contender for number 3 spot if he wouldn't have domestiqued for Roglic. Only stages where he lost time are the stages where he blew himself up by working for Roglic. He looks like a match for Uran, Lopez and Porte and his TT is stronger.

 

[Red Rick]

Okay I've thought it over and given Dumoulin's form today there's definitely cheeky tactics they could to to put Pogacar in a rough spot. But I doubt that they will

Preferred tactic is 1 dom in breakaway and Dumo attacking Madeleine. Then Jumbo drops all the domestiques on Madeleine. GC guys all look at each other with surprised pikachu on flat. Dumo wins by 5 minutes.

 

[Bardamu]

Subscribe.

 

[savornin]

Probably not going to happen, but would be so awesome. These days I've been reading about the old tours from the 70s and 80s, so cool that it was really mano a mano, no holds barred fights between the favorites, one could lose 3 minutes one day and win four minutes the next day (1986 LeMond/Hinault, 1987 Roche/Delgado/Mottet/Bernard) and it could get very unpredictable. And far out attacks like Andy Schleck Galibier 2011 or Froome 2018 Giro (didn't like that one as Froome killed Dumo, but still fantastic ride).
Times have changed, fitness levels are more equal, its all about wattages and maths and we're starved for unpredictable heroic fights and attacks.
Btw I have been following the Tour since 1986 so I have witnessed those days from behind the telly.

 

[ice&fire]

Okay I've thought it over and given Dumoulin's form today there's definitely cheeky tactics they could to to put Pogacar in a rough spot. But I doubt that they will

Preferred tactic is 1 dom in breakaway and Dumo attacking Madeleine. Then Jumbo drops all the domestiques on Madeleine. GC guys all look at each other with surprised pikachu on flat. Dumo wins by 5 minutes.

Dudes like Caruso, Bilbao, Tejada, Soler and Valverde lasted for a while next to their team leaders yesterday, and some of them were still there after Van Aert finished his job. If Dumo attacks, everyone in the top-10 will ride to defend before Pogacar is in trouble.
If you want to watch a race where leaders are alone with 2 or even 3 climbs to go, this is the right race but the wrong year. Turn your clock around 30 years backwards

 

[Big Doopie]

Got stronger throughout the TdF.

Interested to see what he can do in the ITT.

Potential for 7th in GC.

Outside chance of 6th.

Tom Dumo is a traditional GT winner. Powerful. Resistant over 3 weeks. Excels at TTs and can minimize losses in high mountains.

Unfortunately, he basically came in “undercooked” from his injury and illness. He comes in at top shape and you add a 30 km rolling/flat ITT to this route (not asking much) and he would be a favorite.

Wish he was headed to the giro. No Remco. He could definitely win.

 

[cellardoor]

He did get stronger, but I do think he and the team were vindicated for the decision to support Roglic because he never had the form to challenge for the win. He'll give the young guns a serious run for their money in the next GT he rides though.

 

[SafeBet]

Honestly he didn't improve as much as I thought he would.
He kept being dropped by at least by 5 riders in every mountain stage even when he wasn't asked to work. He overtook a few riders in GC because they had bad days (as I expected) but he never gave me the impression he could follow the top guys when they went full gas.

I'd like to see him ride another GT this year to assess if he can come back to his former level. As things stand I'm not 100% sure he will.

 

[Red Rick]

He said he's likely to ride the Vuelta but still I'd wait until next year to make any definitive conclusions

 

[Bardamu]

Another year no Amstel then?

 

[Leinster]

Honestly he didn't improve as much as I thought he would.
He kept being dropped by at least by 5 riders in every mountain stage even when he wasn't asked to work. He overtook a few riders in GC because they had bad days (as I expected) but he never gave me the impression he could follow the top guys when they went full gas.

I'd like to see him ride another GT this year to assess if he can come back to his former level. As things stand I'm not 100% sure he will.

I'm sure there's a different motivation to do that work when he's trying to hold onto his top 10 place (and isn't really facing competition for it) vs having to protect a jersey or even a podium spot.

I think, even without him being back to 100%, this Tour would have had a completely different complexion had he been there as the leader of the current Sunweb squad, vs as Roglic's backup. I hope he gives the Vuelta a go. I really hope he comes back to the Tour next year at 100% and has an honest chance at leadership.

 

[yaco]

Dumoulin is the strong favorite for the Vuelta based on his TDF form.

 

[Red Rick]

Dumoulin is the strong favorite for the Vuelta based on his TDF form.

Not really. He really needs to be better to win the Vuelta.

The route doesn't favor him at all.

 

[Leinster]

Not really. He really needs to be better to win the Vuelta.

The route doesn't favor him at all.

Yeah, but even with that route, who will be there who can beat him? If he brings 2 or 3 of this TdF team, plus a couple of other TJV doms (presuming Tolhoek will be going to the Giro with Kruiswijk?) Froome, Zakarin, Valverde, Mas?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Honestly I wouldn't worry about it.

It's a simple case of being "good" but not super. He's not going to go from good to super in 3 weeks. I think the base was just not enough for that. Not enough racing, 400 days without that extreme high effort stuff from races... that was a little too long.

I think this Tour will be a big help in getting back to his old self. I don't worry at all. In fact I think it's quite encouraging that others are getting worse (uran, yates, etc) while he is staying on the same level. Shows good recovery