Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[Escarabajo]

I don't like it when riders start putting conditions. If you are going to win it, do it with whichever route they throw at you. Froome does not complain about that. When they put the cobbles Nairo when to Europe early to train in the cobbles. No complains there.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-2018-tour-de-france-participation-depends-on-the-route/

“In truth, I haven’t decided yet. It depends on the routes,” Dumoulin told La Gazzetta dello Sport. “It’s true that I’ve already fought for the general classification at the Vuelta and the Giro, and not yet at the Tour. But if the Tour doesn’t have a route that suits me, then why should I go there next year looking to win? I loved the Giro, and I’d really like to go back there.”

I know is a plus that he gives a lot of importance to the Giro, but don't put conditions for the Tour regardless of the route. Just go there and try your best. That is implying that he feels at disadvantage at the high mountains yet he is the second favorite now for the win regardless of the route.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

I don't like it when riders start putting conditions. If you are going to win it, do it with whichever route they throw at you. Froome does not complain about that. When they put the cobbles Nairo when to Europe early to train in the cobbles. No complains there.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-2018-tour-de-france-participation-depends-on-the-route/

“In truth, I haven’t decided yet. It depends on the routes,” Dumoulin told La Gazzetta dello Sport. “It’s true that I’ve already fought for the general classification at the Vuelta and the Giro, and not yet at the Tour. But if the Tour doesn’t have a route that suits me, then why should I go there next year looking to win? I loved the Giro, and I’d really like to go back there.”

I know is a plus that he gives a lot of importance to the Giro, but don't put conditions for the Tour regardless of the route. Just go there and try your best. That is implying that he feels at disadvantage at the high mountains yet he is the second favorite now for the win regardless of the route.

He wants to maximize his potential. Why have a dislike for that?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

So basically Quintana should show up in Paris Roubaix. Who cares if he can't win there? Escarabajo?

 

[jsem94]

It's actually wise to wait for the route reveals. I think both the Giro and Tour will suit him though. The Giro will have TT kms to try attract Froome again and the Tour will TT kms for a possible Tom vs Froome showdown.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

So basically Quintana should show up in Paris Roubaix. Who cares if he can't win there? Escarabajo?

That is the wrong analogy. He should go to the Tour regardless. Froome hasn't said anything about the reduced TT kms. Tom is the second favorite at this moment and seems to have a very strong team which used to be his weak area.

 

[glassmoon]

Re:

It's actually wise to wait for the route reveals. I think both the Giro and Tour will suit him though. The Giro will have TT kms to try attract Froome again and the Tour will TT kms for a possible Tom vs Froome showdown.

Next year it's potential 5th TdF win for Froome so it'll be his only GT focus imho. He wants to join the 5-TdF club and will not be lowering his chances by participating in the Giro.

 

[arvc40]

He is gonna need a very special route to beat Froome. To be held in high regard you need to beat Froome regardless of the route. Anyway, not going to happen.

 

[jsem94]

Re: Re:

It's actually wise to wait for the route reveals. I think both the Giro and Tour will suit him though. The Giro will have TT kms to try attract Froome again and the Tour will TT kms for a possible Tom vs Froome showdown.

Next year it's potential 5th TdF win for Froome so it'll be his only GT focus imho. He wants to join the 5-TdF club and will not be lowering his chances by participating in the Giro.

Which is understandable and will probably happen, but I hate how he's avoiding the Giro. What about next year? Say he wins a fifth Tour, getting to six, one above so many legends, would be huge as well but his chances of winning a Giro will diminish every year because of the age factor. He has two, maybe three years left at the top of his game.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

So basically Quintana should show up in Paris Roubaix. Who cares if he can't win there? Escarabajo?

He should go to the Tour regardless.

There's no reason why he should targey the Tour 100%

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yeah I completely disagree he should go to the Tour regardless.

He should not make the same mistake as Ullrich and go for the Tour year in year out when either the course doesn't suit him or there is a guy who is stronger than all. If he wins 5 Giri's and 4 Vuelta's his career is a great success. If he podiums the Tour 10 times without winnine he's still just a one time Giro winner

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

So basically Quintana should show up in Paris Roubaix. Who cares if he can't win there? Escarabajo?

He should go to the Tour regardless.

There's no reason why he should targey the Tour 100%

Of course nobody will force him to do so and he will do whatever he pleases. But he already won the Giro and the team has been preparing for helping him in the mountains. I wouldn't want to waste an opportunity.

Of course no TT kms would be the absolute worst and that won't happen. But a 35 Km in hilly terrain should be more than enough to put climbers at a distance.

Now he might be just waiting for Froome to fade or start his decline. In that case there is no discussion.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Yeah I completely disagree he should go to the Tour regardless.

He should not make the same mistake as Ullrich and go for the Tour year in year out when either the course doesn't suit him or there is a guy who is stronger than all. If he wins 5 Giri's and 4 Vuelta's his career is a great success. If he podiums the Tour 10 times without winnine he's still just a one time Giro winner

There is a big difference between Ullrich and Dumoulin. Ullrich could have noticed that he can't beat Armstrong after riding against him for 2 or 3 years. Dumoulin however has never even targeted a gt Froome targeted as well. Moreover froome didn't look that great in this years tour. He was good enough to win but if Bardet and Uran are as strong as Froome in the mountains Dumoulin in giro shape might be as well. 40 ITT kilometers would then be enough to win. It's problematic if the tour has only 30 or less ITT kilometers. In that case I would completely understand why he would go to the giro again instead.

 

[Põhja Konn]

Unless the ITT is of mickey mouse lenght (under 20k), he should go to the Tour. Imo, Froome's decline has already begun as the succesful double attempt should not mask performances on the road that were decidedly weaker compared to last year despite having a more favourable schedule this year without the Olympics in between the Tour and Vuelta.

TTT will already benefit Dumoulin against all others apart from Porte and Froome and both of them are of the age when past peak levels are no longer foolproof guidelines for assessing probable future performances when it comes to climbing. There's a decent chance that when next July rolls around Dumoulin will match Froome in the mountains as well.

 

[Valv.Piti]

He is primarily doing what he is doing try to pressure ASO in the last hour, but I don't think he will be successful. My money is on the Tour regardless of routes, I just can't see him skipping the Tour GC again.

 

[yaco]

He will ride the TDF - It's a no-brainer.

 

[Red Rick]

One thing I keep thinking about is that Dumoulin said he was lighter at the Binckbank Tour than at the Giro, and that he usually has trouble to get his weight down in May. It's not impossible that Dumoulin can improve his climbing still

 

[Bardamu]

Always take cyclists statements about their weight with a grain of salt, I'm sure they want to keep the rest in the dark as much as possible.

 

[Merckx index]

Re:

Yeah I completely disagree he should go to the Tour regardless.

He should not make the same mistake as Ullrich and go for the Tour year in year out when either the course doesn't suit him or there is a guy who is stronger than all. If he wins 5 Giri's and 4 Vuelta's his career is a great success. If he podiums the Tour 10 times without winnine he's still just a one time Giro winner

Ullrich is considered a better rider than Heras, though. People who follow these things are capable of comparing a Tour podium to a Vuelta win.

 

[pastronef]

Dumo interview on main page

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-2018-tour-de-france-participation-depends-on-the-route/

Dutchman not in favour of banning power meters in races
“I have to say that in my opinion, Contador is overestimating the influence that this instrument has on Froome’s racing style, for example. I don’t think Chris uses it that much. And the others don’t either. You could take them away, but it wouldn’t change much.”

 

[bambino]

Dumo interview on main page

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-2018-tour-de-france-participation-depends-on-the-route/

Dutchman not in favour of banning power meters in races
“I have to say that in my opinion, Contador is overestimating the influence that this instrument has on Froome’s racing style, for example. I don’t think Chris uses it that much. And the others don’t either. You could take them away, but it wouldn’t change much.”

This is the explanation we keep hearing. If it doesn't chance much, why couldn't those be banned then? The logic works the other way as well.

 

[Squire]

Re: Re:

Yeah I completely disagree he should go to the Tour regardless.

He should not make the same mistake as Ullrich and go for the Tour year in year out when either the course doesn't suit him or there is a guy who is stronger than all. If he wins 5 Giri's and 4 Vuelta's his career is a great success. If he podiums the Tour 10 times without winnine he's still just a one time Giro winner

Ullrich is considered a better rider than Heras, though. People who follow these things are capable of comparing a Tour podium to a Vuelta win.

If we scrap pre-Armstrong results for both riders, Heras' palmares would probably have been considered superior. But it would probably still be clear that Ullrich is the better rider.

 

[Leinster]

Dumo interview on main page

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-2018-tour-de-france-participation-depends-on-the-route/

Dutchman not in favour of banning power meters in races
“I have to say that in my opinion, Contador is overestimating the influence that this instrument has on Froome’s racing style, for example. I don’t think Chris uses it that much. And the others don’t either. You could take them away, but it wouldn’t change much.”

This is the explanation we keep hearing. If it doesn't chance much, why couldn't those be banned then? The logic works the other way as well.

This. If the PM isn't a big deal to riders who are in favour of it, then why not ban them? If the worst thing that can happen is the races stay the same...


Obviously Dumoulin is entitled to wait and see the routes to make his decision, but I can't help thinking that avoiding the Tour in 2018 is a very, for want of a better expression, un-Contador way of racing. For a GC rider, the Tour is the big prize. Picking and choosing based on TT kms or number of MTFs feels like a bit of a cop out to be honest.

 

[del1962]

Tom on powermeters

"I have to say that in my opinion, Contador is overestimating the influence that this instrument has on Froome's racing style, for example. I don't think Chris uses it that much. And the others don't either. You could take them away, but it wouldn't change much."

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Dumo interview on main page

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-2018-tour-de-france-participation-depends-on-the-route/

Dutchman not in favour of banning power meters in races
“I have to say that in my opinion, Contador is overestimating the influence that this instrument has on Froome’s racing style, for example. I don’t think Chris uses it that much. And the others don’t either. You could take them away, but it wouldn’t change much.”

This is the explanation we keep hearing. If it doesn't chance much, why couldn't those be banned then? The logic works the other way as well.

This. If the PM isn't a big deal to riders who are in favour of it, then why not ban them? If the worst thing that can happen is the races stay the same...


Obviously Dumoulin is entitled to wait and see the routes to make his decision, but I can't help thinking that avoiding the Tour in 2018 is a very, for want of a better expression, un-Contador way of racing. For a GC rider, the Tour is the big prize. Picking and choosing based on TT kms or number of MTFs feels like a bit of a cop out to be honest.

Well Tom is not Contador. So he should not be compared to that.

Contador was a top GC rider from age 23. Dumoulin from age 26. Dumoulin is way more like Indurain / Wiggins. Nothing like Contador

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I'm pretty taken aback at the number of people who seemingly want top GT riders to race for a podium on an unwinnable Tour parcours rather than racing to win whatever GTs they have a chance in. It's bad enough that French riders usually get forced to do that without wanting it to be compulsory for everyone.