Yes, I really like how he's focused and realistic. I remember last year there was always something going on, more frustration and saying stupid stuff after the race (like he wanted Nibali to drop off the podium). Of course he then was in the pink jersey but still, a lot has changed.Red Rick said:Gotta say I like Dumoulin's demeanor after today's stage. No nonsense. No giving up either. Just saying he was good but that it's gonna be really hard to win the Giro.
Excellent assessment. Yates is clearly a problem for Dumoulin, if there's a handful of seconds between the two and all these mountains left, at his current level, Simon says I win. Froome is an enigma...I couldn't help thinking "WTF am I watching?", total disbelief. 6th best Zonc time ever. I don't know. I'm still scratching my head and other parts of my body. Tom needs a strong stage tomorrow, no time-loss, and BigMig everyone on Tuesday. Then we'll count the casualties and look ahead.Dekker_Tifosi said:Ofcourse it's a good ride, and a good giro until now.
He's leading after the Zoncolan against all the guys you expected to be his main challengers. And that would be superb with a TT still to come.
The main problem is that a superb Simon Yates showed up and he's 1:24 in front of Dumoulin.
The more I look back on that the more it's clear. There's still a few positives though
-He's clearly not getting worse up until now, while some of his opponents are
-Froome is back, that might sound strange as a positive, but the Sky train will show itself more now, and that's to Dumoulins advantage
-The Zoncolan is out of his way, and he has a TT to look forward to
the negatives
-Froome is back. If he's really in top shape in the last week that might still become a problem
-Yates doesn't look to get any worse either. He needs that to happen in order to stand a chance because..
-If not, he might not be leading after the TT, or have a really slim bonus.
I've looked at quite some photo's, but I don't think there's much of a difference. I think the pink jersey does make him look slimmer but other than that there's not a notable difference for me.Red Rick said:Really have the idea that he's just not as skinny as last year.
Don't see how this is better than Oropa.Dekker_Tifosi said:Really? I think he's actually skinnier.
Also think last year he would have lost more on Zonc.
For what it's worth, I just took another look at the ITT and its profile. The first part is slightly downhill, which is good for him, maybe a 55X11 or more (Does he go 56?), and the second part has some ripples. Time will be lost in the end when big gears plus inclines take a toll and there's 5 km to go. I disagree with the posts arguing that the course doesn't favor him. Seconds per km are not a cookie-cutter way to estimate/predict IMO. More like 120 than 90 I think.Dekker_Tifosi said:He'll almost need an Indurain level time trial right now. Kinda like the Burgos one in the Vuelta were he pulled 1' on bodnar (2nd guy) and 1'58 on Aru who was still in the top 10 in that time trial.
Basically Tom needs that kind of time trial and Yates needs to do less good than top 10
Oropa is like the perfect climb for him, there's been no similar thing in this Giro.Red Rick said:Don't see how this is better than Oropa.Dekker_Tifosi said:Really? I think he's actually skinnier.
Also think last year he would have lost more on Zonc.
Prato Nevoso will be something like Oropa.Dekker_Tifosi said:Oropa is like the perfect climb for him, there's been no similar thing in this Giro.Red Rick said:Don't see how this is better than Oropa.Dekker_Tifosi said:Really? I think he's actually skinnier.
Also think last year he would have lost more on Zonc.
It's not a blind assumption. It also depends on his recovery and how he comes out of the rest day. I could be wrong but to me Dumoulin looks a bit off last year's form but it has also been a more chaotic race. Time bonuses could decide this race. Dumoulin made last year's race look harder than it should have been with silly time losses. I still think he is in a good position but he will need a superb TT to stay in it. The thing in Yates favor if anything is his team. They have looked the best in the race so far and Yates continues to climb well. See how well Yates and Dumoulin can now withstand some pressure from Astana and Sky which will surely come. Poels looked much better yesterday.Red Rick said:I do not understand the blind assumption Yates will lose anything more than 1'30.
It's flat, which is better than rolling terrain to limit the damage, it's only 34km, and Yates is in the form of his life. Expecting him to lose 4km/s is ridiculous.
I actually think only losing 37 seconds to Froome on Zonc is more impressive than Oropa even.Dekker_Tifosi said:It's funny and beautiful about cycling, that fans can look at the same race, but have totally and wildy different views. Even after watching the same.
After today, I have no doubt whatsoever that Dumoulin has, at LEAST, the same form as last years Giro.
Yet I read a lot of people saying Dumoulin is off / slightly worse. I think it's mainly the Oropa win and the less stiff competition that made that impression.
The numbers I've seen from Velon surely don;t back it up though.
Of course Dumoulin has at least last year's form. Same goes for Pinot and Pozzo. The outlier here is Simon Yates and not all the competition. Froome was going backwards until yesterday when we saw the best Froome in ages to whom Tom lost 37 sec on the hardest climb in the world. It's normal. What is not normal, or let's say unexpected is the way Yates is climbing day in day out. He is so charged he forgot to dump his water bottle and the rain jacket while chasing Froome up the Zonc. Let us wait and see for how long he can do this. Nevertheless Tom is doing a great Giro.Dekker_Tifosi said:It's funny and beautiful about cycling, that fans can look at the same race, but have totally and wildy different views. Even after watching the same.
After today, I have no doubt whatsoever that Dumoulin has, at LEAST, the same form as last years Giro.
Yet I read a lot of people saying Dumoulin is off / slightly worse. I think it's mainly the Oropa win and the less stiff competition that made that impression.
The numbers I've seen from Velon surely don;t back it up though.
lol yeah, Yates is so fired up and detirmined it’s scary. Stone cold, breathing through the nose, no lateral movement on the bike and with a stern countenance. Reminds me a lot of the way LA used to ride (not clinically related, only appearance)Rollthedice said:Of course Dumoulin has at least last year's form. Same goes for Pinot and Pozzo. The outlier here is Simon Yates and not all the competition. Froome was going backwards until yesterday when we saw the best Froome in ages to whom Tom lost 37 sec on the hardest climb in the world. It's normal. What is not normal, or let's say unexpected is the way Yates is climbing day in day out. He is so charged he forgot to dump his water bottle and the rain jacket while chasing Froome up the Zonc. Let us wait and see for how long he can do this. Nevertheless Tom is doing a great Giro.Dekker_Tifosi said:It's funny and beautiful about cycling, that fans can look at the same race, but have totally and wildy different views. Even after watching the same.
After today, I have no doubt whatsoever that Dumoulin has, at LEAST, the same form as last years Giro.
Yet I read a lot of people saying Dumoulin is off / slightly worse. I think it's mainly the Oropa win and the less stiff competition that made that impression.
The numbers I've seen from Velon surely don;t back it up though.