Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[lenric]

Re:

I don't like it when riders start putting conditions. If you are going to win it, do it with whichever route they throw at you. Froome does not complain about that. When they put the cobbles Nairo when to Europe early to train in the cobbles. No complains there.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-2018-tour-de-france-participation-depends-on-the-route/

“In truth, I haven’t decided yet. It depends on the routes,” Dumoulin told La Gazzetta dello Sport. “It’s true that I’ve already fought for the general classification at the Vuelta and the Giro, and not yet at the Tour. But if the Tour doesn’t have a route that suits me, then why should I go there next year looking to win? I loved the Giro, and I’d really like to go back there.”

I know is a plus that he gives a lot of importance to the Giro, but don't put conditions for the Tour regardless of the route. Just go there and try your best. That is implying that he feels at disadvantage at the high mountains yet he is the second favorite now for the win regardless of the route.

I really don't see what's the problem. If the Tour's route doesn't suit him more than the Giro's, then why should he ride the Tour? Because you want?
He only stated the obvious and, if anything, has shown that he's not TDF dependent. Imo, kudos for Dumoulin.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I'm pretty taken aback at the number of people who seemingly want top GT riders to race for a podium on an unwinnable Tour parcours rather than racing to win whatever GTs they have a chance in. It's bad enough that French riders usually get forced to do that without wanting it to be compulsory for everyone.

Lol. No matter the course, the Tour isn't 'unwinable' for Tom. Thats just nonsense.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

I don't like it when riders start putting conditions. If you are going to win it, do it with whichever route they throw at you. Froome does not complain about that. When they put the cobbles Nairo when to Europe early to train in the cobbles. No complains there.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-2018-tour-de-france-participation-depends-on-the-route/

“In truth, I haven’t decided yet. It depends on the routes,” Dumoulin told La Gazzetta dello Sport. “It’s true that I’ve already fought for the general classification at the Vuelta and the Giro, and not yet at the Tour. But if the Tour doesn’t have a route that suits me, then why should I go there next year looking to win? I loved the Giro, and I’d really like to go back there.”

I know is a plus that he gives a lot of importance to the Giro, but don't put conditions for the Tour regardless of the route. Just go there and try your best. That is implying that he feels at disadvantage at the high mountains yet he is the second favorite now for the win regardless of the route.

I really don't see what's the problem. If the Tour's route doesn't suit him more than the Giro's, then why should he ride the Tour? Because you want?
He only stated the obvious and, if anything, has shown that he's not TDF dependent. Imo, kudos for Dumoulin.

He can do whatever he wants to do.

What about if the Giro puts 30 km TT. The same as the Tour. So what now? he would go to the Vuelta only because is the only one that suits him! Lol.

So if all GT's go short on TT's then he won't ride any?

GT's are also lost and won in the mountains and I didn't see any problems with his climbing at the Giro. He should give it a try!

 

[rick james]

Unless the ITT is of mickey mouse lenght (under 20k), he should go to the Tour. Imo, Froome's decline has already begun as the succesful double attempt should not mask performances on the road that were decidedly weaker compared to last year despite having a more favourable schedule this year without the Olympics in between the Tour and Vuelta.

TTT will already benefit Dumoulin against all others apart from Porte and Froome and both of them are of the age when past peak levels are no longer foolproof guidelines for assessing probable future performances when it comes to climbing. There's a decent chance that when next July rolls around Dumoulin will match Froome in the mountains as well.

Only on here when a cyclist has just won a legendary grand tour double would we get told that the decline has already begun....it will be a different game next year when dawg is only targeting one grand tour

 

[pastronef]

Dumo interview on main page

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-2018-tour-de-france-participation-depends-on-the-route/

Dutchman not in favour of banning power meters in races
“I have to say that in my opinion, Contador is overestimating the influence that this instrument has on Froome’s racing style, for example. I don’t think Chris uses it that much. And the others don’t either. You could take them away, but it wouldn’t change much.”

This is the explanation we keep hearing. If it doesn't chance much, why couldn't those be banned then? The logic works the other way as well.

it doesnt change much during the race. but after the race, and in training, riders and coaches can analyze efforts and performances.

 

[Põhja Konn]

Unless the ITT is of mickey mouse lenght (under 20k), he should go to the Tour. Imo, Froome's decline has already begun as the succesful double attempt should not mask performances on the road that were decidedly weaker compared to last year despite having a more favourable schedule this year without the Olympics in between the Tour and Vuelta.

TTT will already benefit Dumoulin against all others apart from Porte and Froome and both of them are of the age when past peak levels are no longer foolproof guidelines for assessing probable future performances when it comes to climbing. There's a decent chance that when next July rolls around Dumoulin will match Froome in the mountains as well.

Only on here when a cyclist has just won a legendary grand tour double would we get told that the decline has already begun....it will be a different game next year when dawg is only targeting one grand tour

There are results and then there are performances.

 

[Leinster]

Dumo interview on main page

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-2018-tour-de-france-participation-depends-on-the-route/

Dutchman not in favour of banning power meters in races
“I have to say that in my opinion, Contador is overestimating the influence that this instrument has on Froome’s racing style, for example. I don’t think Chris uses it that much. And the others don’t either. You could take them away, but it wouldn’t change much.”

This is the explanation we keep hearing. If it doesn't chance much, why couldn't those be banned then? The logic works the other way as well.

it doesnt change much during the race. but after the race, and in training, riders and coaches can analyze efforts and performances.

And by all means let the riders use the data in training and after the race. But I think we'd all much rather they rode the race on the basis of "I feel good/bad/heavy/ready, now/in the next 5km," rather than having their head unit tell them "maintain this pace for the next 15 minutes."

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Dumoulin always rides on feeling in races. He only ever looks at his power in ITT I think. He even said so? He's never been the type to follow accelerations.

And look at his racing in Cumbre del Sol (attacking all the time) and Worlds RR (attacking way too early) for instance. That's not a Power meter rider

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

I'm pretty taken aback at the number of people who seemingly want top GT riders to race for a podium on an unwinnable Tour parcours rather than racing to win whatever GTs they have a chance in. It's bad enough that French riders usually get forced to do that without wanting it to be compulsory for everyone.

Lol. No matter the course, the Tour isn't 'unwinable' for Tom. Thats just nonsense.

If you think Dumoulin can beat Froome, Quintana etc on a course that doesn't offer the opportunity to make up for relative weakness in the mountains with strength in the time trial then you are a fantasist. It's like thinking Quintana can win a Tour with 150 km of ITT.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I'm pretty taken aback at the number of people who seemingly want top GT riders to race for a podium on an unwinnable Tour parcours rather than racing to win whatever GTs they have a chance in. It's bad enough that French riders usually get forced to do that without wanting it to be compulsory for everyone.

Lol. No matter the course, the Tour isn't 'unwinable' for Tom. Thats just nonsense.

If you think Dumoulin can beat Froome, Quintana etc on a course that doesn't offer the opportunity to make up for relative weakness in the mountains with strength in the time trial then you are a fantasist. It's like thinking Quintana can win a Tour with 150 km of ITT.

Did you see the two most mountainious stages of the Giro? Dumoulin only dropped time to Quintana because he had to take a dump.

Dumoulin might barely lose time at all in the mountains with a good team. We don't know. What we do know is that he will take time in the ITTs.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

I'm pretty taken aback at the number of people who seemingly want top GT riders to race for a podium on an unwinnable Tour parcours rather than racing to win whatever GTs they have a chance in. It's bad enough that French riders usually get forced to do that without wanting it to be compulsory for everyone.

Well there is often a progression with grand tour gc riders where they wet their feet in the Giro and/or Vuelta and then go to the Tour. Dumoulin, since his Giro win, was my only hope of dethroning Froome/Sky from their Tour domination. It seemed that his climbing had progressed to the point that he could be a threat for the win in any of the grand tours. I'm just a bit disappointed personally that he isn't showing a bit more ambition and confidence in his ability to be an even stronger rider in 2018 than he was this year.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I'm pretty taken aback at the number of people who seemingly want top GT riders to race for a podium on an unwinnable Tour parcours rather than racing to win whatever GTs they have a chance in. It's bad enough that French riders usually get forced to do that without wanting it to be compulsory for everyone.

Well there is often a progression with grand tour gc riders where they wet their feet in the Giro and/or Vuelta and then go to the Tour. Dumoulin, since his Giro win, was my only hope of dethroning Froome/Sky from their Tour domination. It seemed that his climbing had progressed to the point that he could be a threat for the win in any of the grand tours. I'm just a bit disappointed personally that he isn't showing a bit more ambition and confidence in his ability to be an even stronger rider in 2018 than he was this year.

Even if he were planning on it he's not shouting from the rooftops that he's gonna wreck Froomie.

He just hopes Quintana and Nibali won't podium instead

 

[hazaran]

None of them ever come out saying "I'm the favorite, I'm here to wreck these fools". But at least they are not so insecure to waffle around even their *participation*.

At this point, the only vertical upwards career move for Dumoulin is the Tour.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

At this point, the only vertical upwards career move for Dumoulin is the Tour.

It's winning more Grand Tours. Classics/monuments. Or World Titles. 2 Giro's is better than one, and better than a Giro and a Tour podium.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

He said he's not the type to go for 5 Tour wins. He seems more interested in setting specific goals and then doing it. I'm pretty sure he wants to win all GT's at least once. He'd like to go for the monuments as well. At first Lombardia / LBL seems the most logical, but maybe later in his career also Roubaix / Flanders, he has shown aptitude for cobbles as well. I think he's really that kind of guy.

Wether he will succeed is another thing.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Re:

He said he's not the type to go for 5 Tour wins. He seems more interested in setting specific goals and then doing it. I'm pretty sure he wants to win all GT's at least once. He'd like to go for the monuments as well. At first Lombardia / LBL seems the most logical, but maybe later in his career also Roubaix / Flanders, he has shown aptitude for cobbles as well. I think he's really that kind of guy.

Wether he will succeed is another thing.

You could say the same about Nibali, he's shown he can very much perform on the cobbles but I don't think neither him or Major Tom will ever do it, sponsors don't want a possible GT winner riscking a career-ending injury if they're still competitive in GTs.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

He said he's not the type to go for 5 Tour wins. He seems more interested in setting specific goals and then doing it. I'm pretty sure he wants to win all GT's at least once. He'd like to go for the monuments as well. At first Lombardia / LBL seems the most logical, but maybe later in his career also Roubaix / Flanders, he has shown aptitude for cobbles as well. I think he's really that kind of guy.

Wether he will succeed is another thing.

You could say the same about Nibali, he's shown he can very much perform on the cobbles but I don't think neither him or Major Tom will ever do it, sponsors don't want a possible GT winner riscking a career-ending injury if they're still competitive in GTs.

Dumoulin actually held Nibali as an example when he made that interview.

 

[portugal11]

this guy will destroy the tour next year

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think he will defend his Giro title

 

[Singer01]

Re:

I think he will defend his Giro title

I hope not, the Giro looks wideopen currently based on assumed participants, if he goes he becomes the prohibitive favourite.

 

[Salvarani]

Re: Re:

I think he will defend his Giro title

I hope not, the Giro looks wideopen currently based on assumed participants, if he goes he becomes the prohibitive favourite.

One of Valverde, Quintana and Landa riding Giro so its not like its gonna be easy. Aru might there too or Dan Martin. Maybe ML. I dont think its that "wideopen" just yet, considering nobody has said officially said what they gonna do.

I do not think it is a bad idea to go Giro. If Giro got one or two ITT and one of them a long one... I think he should go for it. Just bring a better team so he dont get easily isolated in the mountains or can have help at least if dropped or control the race. Let Matthews & Kelderman go to the Tour.

Even if the course might look "good" for Dumoulin in rumoured tour with cobbles, TTT, ITT etc. I think its more pressure to go there and be the guy that is supposed to beat Froome than to go and defend a Giro. The pressure is almost equal.

This Giro was super hard but he did pretty good... I think it is a better chance to defend Giro than to the win Tour.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I think in the end, he will go for the Tour. Probably given in by Sunweb as well.

Program to be something like this I hope.

January: nothing / altitude training in S. Africa
February: One of either the spanish stage races (Andaluca, Valencia etc), or Portugal (Algarve) or middle east (Oman or Abu Dhabi, or both).
March: PN or Tirreno. Followed by another altitude training bloc of 2/3 weeks.
April: PV, Ardennais classics. Possibly Romandie if he feels like it after the ardennes.
May: rest + start training for TDF (+recon?)
June: Altitude camp + either Dauphine or Suisse + Dutch ITT championships
July: TDF (+San Sebastian?)
August: rest + altitude camp or rest and then Vuelta (in preparation of insbruck, no GC)
September: either vuelta + world ITT + world or more training and quebec/montreal + wc ITT / WC
October: Italian classics

 

[Red Rick]

I wonder what his focus will be for the Worlds. Going all out in the ITT would probably hamper his chances in the road race, and it's a massive ITT too.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I think he goes for both. He cannot NOT go for the TT. It's too good of a profile for him.

Going for the Worlds RR solely is a huge risk because he is not a proven winner in one day races at all.

 

[yaco]

TDF and the World's ITT will be the key targets for Dumoulin.