Top 10 riders ever?

[Gcraenen]

First, lets establish some criteria. 1 point for a win in a monument or world road race championship, 1 point for a TdF jersey, and 2 points for a grand tour victory? Or should we leave out the point for a jersey, just 2 points for the final victory? What about the cyclo cross world championship?

P.S.: The monuments are MSR, RvV, PR, LBL, PT, and Tour of Lombardia.

 

[Gcraenen]

Lets not include TdF jerseys, as they havent been around that long. Just counting monuments and road racing WC plus grand tour victories, Eddy Merckx of course is number 1: 22 monumets and 11 grand tour victories make for 44 points. Noone even comes close.

 

[Page Mill Masochist]

Merckx

Anquetil

Hinault

De Vlaeminck

Coppi

LeMond

Armstrong

Contador

Indurain

Van Looy

 

[fatandfast]

Merckx

Anquetil

Hinault

De Vlaeminck

Coppi

LeMond

Armstrong

Contador

Indurain

Van Looy

good list..the US has had a few standouts. Lemond won bunches domestically and Lance just a little. I wish Moniger would have played big outside the US. Reading about Anquetil and how hard he raced really gives perspective

 

[Gcraenen]

Does Lemond really score ahead of Armstr5ong's 15 points? I agree he was a better all around cyclist but according to the criteria above?

 

[Gcraenen]

Anquetil: 8 grand tours and 1 monument = 17 points.

 

[Gcraenen]

Hinault 6 monuments/WC and 9 grand tours makes 24 points, so he goes ahead of Anquetil

 

[Gcraenen]

Next I believe is the Gypsy, RdV, with 11 monuments and one CC WC for 12 points.

 

[Gcraenen]

I just added up Rik van Steenbergen's total, just for kicks: 8 monuments/WC and no grand tours.

 

[Jamsque]

Sean Kelly won the Vuelta once and nine monuments, which only gives him 11 points by your reckoning, but he also won four points jerseys at the Tour and the Vuelta, and won Paris-Nice seven years running in the 80s. Are grand tour GC riders the only ones eligible for the top-10 all time?

 

[ericthesportsman6]

The criterium isn't really fair to more recent riders because of how difficult it is to win multiple big races in the same season these days.

 

[Gcraenen]

Lemond with two RR WC and 3 tours comes in at 8 points.
Fausto coppi ties for second with 10 classics/WC and 7 GT's for 24 points.

 

[Gcraenen]

Sean Kelly won the Vuelta once and nine monuments, which only gives him 11 points by your reckoning, but he also won four points jerseys at the Tour and the Vuelta, and won Paris-Nice seven years running in the 80s. Are grand tour GC riders the only ones eligible for the top-10 all time?

Feel free to suggest a different system. Just one point for grand tours? Two seperate lists, one for one day specialists and one for GC riders? ...

 

[Gcraenen]

Rik van Looy comes in with 12 points, all monuments and WC, and that is not including all his 6-day races overall victories.

 

[Jamsque]

'Greatest of all time' is such a qualitative thing I don't know if any points system is going to help. Different races have had different courses and held different importance through the history of the sport, and the quality of the field in the pro peloton isn't a constant.

 

[ustabe]

The Cycling Hall of Fame (http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/riders/alltime25.asp)web site lists the top 25 riders of all time as

1. Eddy Merckx, BEL
2. Bernard Hinault, FRA
3. Lance Armstrong, USA
4. Jacques Anquetil, FRA
5. Fausto Coppi, ITA
6. Miguel Indurain, ESP
7. Gino Bartali, ITA
8. Louison Bobet, FRA
9. Felice Gimondi, ITA
10. Greg Lemond, USA
11. Joop Zoetemelk, HOL
12. Alfredo Binda, ITA
13. Lucien Van Impe, BEL
14. Alberto Contador, ESP
15. Jan Ullrich, GER
16. Sean Kelly, IRE
17. Laurent Fignon, FRA
18. Rik Van Looy, BEL
19. Francesco Moser, ITA
20. Federico Bahamontes, ESP
21. Jan Janssen, HOL
22. Philippe Thys, FRA
23. Raymond Poulidor, FRA
24. Charly Gaul, LUX
25. Erik Zabel, GER

Even though I'm not an Armstrong fan, I see no need to quibble with their methods. I like this list partly because it raises riders whom we tend to underrate (Moser Ullrich, Fignon, Poulidor, & Zabel) or forget (Bobet, Bartali, Gimondi, Van Looy, Binda, Bahamontes, Janssen, & Gaul).

 

[Gcraenen]

Next on your list is Indurain. He gets 14 points for 7 grand tours and no monuments. So he slots in right behind Armstrong.

 

[nvpacchi]

Alfredo Binda-

5x Giro d'Italia (plus 41 stage victories)
3x World Championship
4x Giro di Lombardia
2x Milan San Remo

certainly meets the criteria you set forth for a top 10 rider of all time.

 

[Gcraenen]

'Greatest of all time' is such a qualitative thing I don't know if any points system is going to help. Different races have had different courses and held different importance through the history of the sport, and the quality of the field in the pro peloton isn't a constant.

That is why I am only including the races which have stood the test of time. A fair list I think.

 

[Gcraenen]

Alfredo Binda-

5x Giro d'Italia (plus 41 stage victories)
3x World Championship
4x Giro di Lombardia
2x Milan San Remo

certainly meets the criteria you set forth for a top 10 rider of all time.

Excellent observation: Grandpa Binda makes the list with 19 points.

 

[nvpacchi]

Costante Girardengo

2x Giro d'Italia
6x Milan San Remo
3x Giro di Lombardia

Probably would have won at least 1 World Championship too if the race was held before 1927.

 

[redtreviso]

Tour podiums would rearrange the order.. or podiums in monuments and tours..
Joop!!!

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

First, lets establish some criteria. 1 point for a win in a monument or world road race championship, 1 point for a TdF jersey, and 2 points for a grand tour victory? Or should we leave out the point for a jersey, just 2 points for the final victory? What about the cyclo cross world championship?

P.S.: The monuments are MSR, RvV, PR, LBL, PT, and Tour of Lombardia.

Paris-Tours is not a monument race.

 

[Mambo95]

I don't care about what anyone says, this is how I see it:

1. Merckx
2. Hinault
3. Coppi*
4. Kelly
5. Indurain
6. Binda
7. Armstrong
8 Bartali*
9. LeMond
9. Moser
10. van Looy

*If it wasn't for the war they would be higher. But I'm not going to indulge in what if.

I've probably forgetton someone (not Anquetil - a TT expert with no flair)

 

[Gcraenen]

So, according to my criteria, the top 10 all time are:

Merckx - 44
Hinault - 24
Coppi - 24
Binda - 19
Anquetil - 17
Armstrong - 15
Gimondi - 15
Indurain - 14
Van Looy - 12
De Vlaeminck - 12

With honorable mentions to Kelly (11), Bobet (11), and Moser (10), and a Lets-wait-and-see for Contador (10 at age 27).

That is 3 belgians, 3 italians, 2 frenchman, a spaniard and an american. Sounds reasonable.

Let the arguments begin.