Top 10 riders ever?

[Gcraenen]

2 TDF wins, 3 Giro wins, 4 MSR wins, and 2 Lombardia wins=16 points

Thanks Eric and Pacchi, I will revise my list:

1. Merckx - 44
2. Hinault - 24
Coppi - 24
4. Binda - 19
5. Anquetil - 17
6. Bartali - 16
7. Gimondo - 15
Armstrong - 15
9. Indurain - 14
10. Van Looy - 12
De Vlaeminck - 12

 

[Gcraenen]

what about all the years when "The grand Prix des Nations " was held? During those years it was considered lique the real ITT challenge. Also any points for the Hour record?

I left of the hour record because it is so technology dependent.

 

[Gcraenen]

Solid list, but as you say, earlier riders tend to be under-rated. I'm positive #22 deserves to be top 5, and I believe BEL not FRA belongs after his name. Thys was the first Belgum national Cyclocross champion, so that ranks him very high right off the start in my book. The problem with this ranking is not only were there not as many ways to earn points 95 years ago, if you throw in a WW I, he lost most of his prime years. He would have been the first 5-time Tour winner.

[Edit]Gcr - I just noticed that you caught this first, good for you. I personally think number 2, right after Merckx would be the right place if the playing field were level.

Dude, I completely agree about Thys. He could have been the benchmark for a very long time. You may notice I gave RdV a point for the cyclocross WC because it shows his diversity (he would have won many more if it weren't for his brother).

 

[Derrick]

Just noticed Gcraenen's assessment of Van Steenbergen. Seems a bit harsh. Couldn't we allow him a point or two for his other 1600 plus wins. Likewise another 500 odd wins for Van Looy . And then of course we could give a point or two for Kelly's 170 wins. We could even allow----------O.K, O.K, I know enough's enough.

 

[The Hitch]

Costante Girardengo

2x Giro d'Italia
6x Milan San Remo
3x Giro di Lombardia

Probably would have won at least 1 World Championship too if the race was held before 1927.

only if it was held in italy

 

[The Hitch]

I do not think it is unfair to not include races like Paris Nice or World ITT or Olympics just because they were more important at one point than another.
They may not have had these races back in the day but then i think many would argue it wasnt as competitive. Doing grand tour doubles used to be far more frequent than it is now. There will never be another Mercx because the sport is different now. As comensation we give todays generation more races- world itt, olympic rr + itt.

If you include these races then Cancellara suddenly appears on this list - 4 monuments, 3 world itts 1 olympic itt, and he aint done yet.

I would also reward podiums for gts, and winning races like Flech Walone, Amstel Gold which seem to be more than just classics these days.

You just cant base a list like this on 5 monuments and gts.

 

[indurain666]

I don't care about what anyone says, this is how I see it:

1. Merckx
2. Hinault
3. Coppi*
4. Kelly
5. Indurain
6. Binda
7. Armstrong
8 Bartali*
9. LeMond
9. Moser
10. van Looy

*If it wasn't for the war they would be higher. But I'm not going to indulge in what if.

I've probably forgetton someone (not Anquetil - a TT expert with no flair)

I agree with your list, but I would add Anquetil and Girardengo. And I would move Armstrong below Moser.

 

[indurain666]

Although we have different opinions from 3 to 10 it seems that we are (almost) all constantly agreeing that Merckx and Hinault are the top two.

This must be a first on these forums...people agreeing on something...boring perhaps?

 

[GWAR79]

Mars races

1. Gwar
2. Eddy Merckx, BEL
3. Bernard Hinault, FRA
4. Lance Armstrong, USA
5. Jacques Anquetil, FRA
6. Fausto Coppi, ITA
7. Miguel Indurain, ESP
8. Gino Bartali, ITA
9. Louison Bobet, FRA
10. Felice Gimondi, ITA
11. Greg Lemond, USA

I've won a bunch of races on Mars that you guys don't know s h it about.

 

[SirLes]

With any points system you will always favour riders with longer careers and also don't distiguish between a rider a won across different disciplines over someone who did one thing very well.

Mind you longevity ought to be a factor.

Perhaps a system where you get more points for the first time you win something but less for each repeat?

I like the idea of bonuses for the second grand tour in a year.

Do you also factor in impact on cycling or decisiveness of victory?

Just thought I'd muddy the waters for no appreciable advancement towards a solution.

 

[Nick C.]

OK here goes

1. Merckx
2. Coppi
3. Hinault
4. Gimondi
5. Kelly
6. Bartali
7. Anquetil
8. Bobet
9. DeVlaeminck
10. VanLooy

LeMond, Binda and even LA were possibilities and Phillippe Tyhs gave me pause. Indurain was cached from the top ten when I realized I forgot to place Bobet. I guess I'm big on the Tour, Worlds, Paris Roubaix winners.

 

[Gcraenen]

It looks like we all have very similar lists, wether we go by emotion or an actual points system. I do notice more votes for Kelly and Zoetemelk in those lists just based on personal preference and the almost complete absence of Armstrong.

Glad to see Philippe Thys receive the credit he deserves.

 

[Apolitical]

I don't care about what anyone says, this is how I see it:

1. Merckx
2. Hinault
3. Coppi*
4. Kelly
5. Indurain
6. Binda
7. Armstrong
8 Bartali*
9. LeMond
9. Moser
10. van Looy

*If it wasn't for the war they would be higher. But I'm not going to indulge in what if.

I've probably forgetton someone (not Anquetil - a TT expert with no flair)

I'll go with the it is never fair to compare different generations. Besides riders missing riding because of the wars, there were national team eras, eras when a rider could make more, or as much, money not riding the tour, the all-around era's, the semi-specialized era's, and now, the very specialized eras. Plus many other factors.

Looking at this list:
http://www.thevirtualmusette.com/
it is pretty heavy with riders who have ridden in the last 25 years. Even heavier with the 10 that are not ranked.

 

[Seattleallstar]

Merckx
Lance
Indurain/Contador TIE!
Hinault
Coppi
Lemond
Jan Ullrich

thats all you need on this list

 

[Hugh Januss]

Merckx
Lance
Indurain/Contador TIE!
Hinault
Coppi
Lemond
Jan Ullrich

thats all you need on this list

Nice list, kid. Try to remember that people were racing bikes before you were born.

 

[Seattleallstar]

Nice list, kid. Try to remember that people were racing bikes before you were born.

yeah only one worth mentioning is Merckx the all time legend of all time, even as super Lance fanboy I concede that, but Lance would mop the floor with him in the TDF

 

[sublimit]

My list has probably loads missed out, Cippo is in there because of his flair and talent, plus he won my favourite race the Milan-Sanremo and a ridiculous amount of GT stages so easily.

Merckx
Coppi
Hinault
Indurain
Contador
Zoetemelk
Kelly
Cippolini
Ocana
Lemond

 

[Merckx index]

Why is LA given 15 pts on all these lists? He never won a monument, Fleche is not a monument. Neither is "PT" in the original list, whatever that stands for (Paris-Tours?). Also, Eddy won 19 monuments, not 22. Again, I think the PT is confusing things. My understanding is that there are five monuments, not six.

But really, my problem with criteria like this is that they give nothing for high finishes in GTs (all Ulle's podiums count for nothing), or one-day classics that aren't monuments (Amstel Gold, Fleche, San Sebastian, etc.)

 

[El Pistolero]

Why is LA given 15 pts on all these lists? He never won a monument, Fleche is not a monument. Neither is "PT" in the original list, whatever that stands for (Paris-Tours?). Also, Eddy won 19 monuments, not 22. Again, I think the PT is confusing things. My understanding is that there are five monuments, not six.

But really, my problem with criteria like this is that they give nothing for high finishes in GTs (all Ulle's podiums count for nothing), or one-day classics that aren't monuments (Amstel Gold, Fleche, San Sebastian, etc.)

World championship

 

[ak-zaaf]

Well, if everybody is doing a top-10...

1.
2. Coppi
3. Hinault
4. Anquetil
5. Kelly
6. Bartali
7. Binda
8. De Vlaeminck
9. Gimondi
10. Thys or van Looy


Somebody said Anquetil was just a no-flair TT-er.
His famous Dauphine/Bordeaux - Paris double proves for me he was one of the greatest ever.

 

[Gcraenen]

Why is LA given 15 pts on all these lists? He never won a monument, Fleche is not a monument. Neither is "PT" in the original list, whatever that stands for (Paris-Tours?). Also, Eddy won 19 monuments, not 22. Again, I think the PT is confusing things. My understanding is that there are five monuments, not six.

But really, my problem with criteria like this is that they give nothing for high finishes in GTs (all Ulle's podiums count for nothing), or one-day classics that aren't monuments (Amstel Gold, Fleche, San Sebastian, etc.)

We've already established we're including the WC and Paris-Tours to make the list even accros the calender. Which gives Merckx 22.

High podium finishes just remind people you didn't win. So, no points for that.

 

[Gcraenen]

Well, if everybody is doing a top-10...

1.
2. Coppi
3. Hinault
4. Anquetil
5. Kelly
6. Bartali
7. Binda
8. De Vlaeminck
9. Gimondi
10. Thys or van Looy


Somebody said Anquetil was just a no-flair TT-er.
His famous Dauphine/Bordeaux - Paris double proves for me he was one of the greatest ever.

En geen Zoetemelk op jouw lijst? Het klopt, maar het verbaast me.

 

[flicker]

yeah only one worth mentioning is Merckx the all time legend of all time, even as super Lance fanboy I concede that, but Lance would mop the floor with him in the TDF

As much as I hate to admit it, only Coppi could have beaten Lance in hayday the TdF. I say Merckx Lance.

 

[Dedelou]

As much as I hate to admit it, only Coppi could have beaten Lance in hayday the TdF. I say Merckx Lance.

Agreed. The people who made sure Lance won 7 times, were only interested to "race" him in the TDF and so they made sure nobody could challenge him in it. Mercks too (had he be a contemporary of lance) would have fallen by the roadside or be bought up as a super domestic for lance like all the other real challengers were for 8 years till a certain Contador arrived and said: Keep your money and your threats, I take the wins. I say lance lost his chances to be in the top of the cycling hall of fame. He will be remembered , for awhile, as the guy who was first to win 7 Tours de France but very little more. In the real rankings that measure "cyclists" he is a long long way below the likes of Coppi and Hinault. Who are way below Merkx

 

[El Pistolero]

I don't think Lance could have taken on Merkcx if they rode during the same period. This guy is named the cannibal after all

Lance wasn't good enough to pull off a Giro/Tour double or a Tour/Vuelta double. He's a joke compared to Eddy.