- Feb 20, 2012
- 54,347
- 44,825
- 28,180
Spoiler, it's gonna be the highest number of 2017 by a considerable margin.
Double spoiler, you can absolutely guess what Red Rick thinks about that.
Double spoiler, you can absolutely guess what Red Rick thinks about that.
- Apr 30, 2011
- 47,970
- 30,446
- 28,180
- Aug 13, 2024
- 829
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- 4,180
IT PROVES THAT IF ONLY HE WAS PERFORMING LIKE THAT IN JULY, HE WOULD HAVE WON THE TOUR.
"The WATTS ARE THE WATTS" as the say...
Alejandro Valverde | 77 (-6): 6.61 W/kg for 24:06 on Lo Port (Catalunya 2017)
It is around the 9th best performance of the year for me (only 1 per climb) and maybe the 10th best of Valverde's career. In pure watts it is quite good for the 2010s, of course.
Also, I see that you have not studied my previous list that closely.
I think Red Rick has been quite friendly in this thread, I am happy as long as there is something to discuss.
And if he had repeated this performances every single stage of the Tour, he indeed could have won it....
It is around the 9th best performance of the year for me (only 1 per climb) and maybe the 10th best of Valverde's career. In pure watts it is quite good for the 2010s, of course.
Also, I see that you have not studied my previous list that closely.
I think Red Rick has been quite friendly in this thread, I am happy as long as there is something to discuss.
And if he had repeated this performances every single stage of the Tour, he indeed could have won it....
- Feb 20, 2012
- 54,347
- 44,825
- 28,180
Wasn't expecting a -6 adjustment for Lo Port. Without adjustments it's one of the fastest of the season, but IIRC most of the big performances in 2017 were basically one climb stages and multi mountain stages were pretty slow.Alejandro Valverde | 77 (-6): 6.61 W/kg for 24:06 on Lo Port (Catalunya 2017)
It is around the 9th best performance of the year for me (only 1 per climb) and maybe the 10th best of Valverde's career. In pure watts it is quite good for the 2010s, of course.
Also, I see that you have not studied my previous list that closely.
I think Red Rick has been quite friendly in this thread, I am happy as long as there is something to discuss.
And if he had repeated this performances every single stage of the Tour, he indeed could have won it....
- Aug 13, 2024
- 829
- 893
- 4,180
Speaking of fresh efforts. One explanation given for the faster ascents in the current era have been better nutrition and more fuelling during the stages.
In mountain ITT's this shouldn't be all that important.
Do you have enough observations for mountain ITT's, so that we can compare across years, @Peyresourde ? Noticed performances from Quintana, Pogacar mentioned earlier. How was the Alpe di Siusi performance by Kruisjwijk, valverde and the two russian riders on that day.
In mountain ITT's this shouldn't be all that important.
Do you have enough observations for mountain ITT's, so that we can compare across years, @Peyresourde ? Noticed performances from Quintana, Pogacar mentioned earlier. How was the Alpe di Siusi performance by Kruisjwijk, valverde and the two russian riders on that day.
In the 'weaker' eras (especially 80s and earlier, but maybe also 2010s) TT-efforts were comparitively stronger than the performances in road stages. In the 2010s, there were not many Mountain TTs, so data is sparse. (The Alpe di Siusi effort was in line with Kruisjwijk's other climbs that Giro, so nothing special). Quintana was definitely the type to be good in mountain TTs, he was really good in fresh efforts. Contador probably also. Roglic, Porte and Bernal also did great in 2018 Romandie.
Fueling during the stage is only one aspect important for performance, and we definitely see the effects. Just look at breakaways now: They only get 1-2 minutes and are barely caught a few k before the finish. These breaks use to 'come back from alone' because they were simply tired after being in the wind for hours.
The nutrition also improves the fresh climbing level because the most important factor is improved recovery during training --> harder and more effective training possible --> better shape. (And also better recovery between stages.)
Overall: Nutrition improves efforts after long stages more than fresh efforts, but it also improves fresh efforts indirectly.
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- Aug 13, 2024
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Good points overall, but on this specific issue I think the explanation lies more in the general rise in level across the peloton and in improved aerodynamics.
Very strong riders now go into breakaways wearing skinsuits and riding full aero setups. That increases the average speed of the move significantly. Because aerodynamic drag increases disproportionately with speed, a faster breakaway becomes much harder to bring back.
- Feb 20, 2012
- 54,347
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Easy unipuerto stages are slightly better for this I think just because of sample size. But Alpe di Siusi IIRC is the slowest MTT I ever saw.
- Apr 30, 2011
- 47,970
- 30,446
- 28,180
Great thread. I took the time to read all of your work for the first time. Although my view is qualitative, I am very much alligned regarding your view of Ullrich. His 1997 TdF performance was just incredible and made me a lifelong fan with a lot of frustration too in the Armstrong era.
When I look at the list it's also a bit frightening to see all those former top climbers in tier 1, 2, 3 and even 4 that deserve an asterix for reasons that belong in the clinic. Seeing the current stars in that same list gives anyone who believes in a clean sport a reason to pause.
When I look at the list it's also a bit frightening to see all those former top climbers in tier 1, 2, 3 and even 4 that deserve an asterix for reasons that belong in the clinic. Seeing the current stars in that same list gives anyone who believes in a clean sport a reason to pause.
- Apr 30, 2011
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Thanks. As a Ullrich fan the 2000s must have been really frustrating. I defintiely think very high level performances are possible with just talent and good training.
Yes, I even have it 2 seconds faster on my segment:
Juan Ayuso | 81 (-6): 7.68 W/kg for 6:37 on Malhao (Algarve 2026)
It was a cross-tailwind, otherwise the watts would be even higher. Very strong general level with 4 riders around 80 in my Index which is unusual on short climbs. If there is a good performance on a short climb, normally a solo attacker wins/is the fastest. For Seixas this was technically even a PB in my database.
- Dec 28, 2010
- 4,562
- 3,628
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Helped a lot by almost flawless pacing, wasn't it? Almeida doing his best Rubiera/Heras impersonation, then Riccitello, then Seixas, then straight into an Onley/Ayuso sprint.
Yes, there was no lull in the pace like on Foia. Almeida did a great job..
- Aug 29, 2011
- 3,775
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Do you have any information on Jurgen Van den Broeck in 2011. He won a stage in Dauphiné and 2011 Tour didn't look to be a particularly high level. Was that the year he could have legitimately be in the mix?
- Nov 16, 2013
- 26,999
- 28,154
- 28,180
I think he has had the attitude he would have if he spoke to a physicist who hasn't even managed to establish the unified field theory.
But in this case, it's probably just me who should grow some thicker skin.
The only climb I have from him is:
2011| Jurgen van den Broack | 77 (0): 6.23 W/kg for 32:46 on Collet d'Allevard (Dauphine 2011)
Several riders did a PB/close to PB on that day, so take this with a grain of salt. But in pure theory, had he consistently repeated that level in the Tour, he could have podiumed or even won (The Tour 2011 was indeed quite weak climbing-wise). But this is a bit ridiculous to say about a rider with 2 career wins. So it would probably have been top 5 max like he did the following year.
- Nov 16, 2013
- 26,999
- 28,154
- 28,180
I am a little confused by this comment? I don't think this climb was included on any list (not Valverde's best and not the best of 2017).Alejandro Valverde | 77 (-6): 6.61 W/kg for 24:06 on Lo Port (Catalunya 2017)
It is around the 9th best performance of the year for me (only 1 per climb) and maybe the 10th best of Valverde's career. In pure watts it is quite good for the 2010s, of course.
Also, I see that you have not studied my previous list that closely.
- Jun 30, 2022
- 7,471
- 10,907
- 17,180
I think he was talking about Red Rick claiming (joking) that this was the strongest performance of 2017 which he had already published
- Dec 28, 2010
- 4,562
- 3,628
- 21,180
LOL, didn't see this until now. When you mentioned that some of the climbs I requested would be on the best-of-the-year list, the Najar one wasn't what immediately came to mind.
This is glorious. Now I think you really should look at Gabrovski's Elmali too!So I guess Padun 2021 will be the other one, as you did address the Mayo Ventoux climb, and it didn't make your list.
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