Comprehensive Climbers Ranking

[Red Rick]

It must be fun to have Rick slam your work all the time like this. Thankfully, many others have expressed admiration.

Do you have data of Valverde at Lo Port in 2017?

Spoiler, it's gonna be the highest number of 2017 by a considerable margin.

Double spoiler, you can absolutely guess what Red Rick thinks about that.

 

[Netserk]

It must be fun to have Rick slam your work all the time like this

are we in different threads ?

 

[Pozzovivo]

Spoiler, it's gonna be the highest number of 2017 by a considerable margin.

Double spoiler, you can absolutely guess what Red Rick thinks about that.

IT PROVES THAT IF ONLY HE WAS PERFORMING LIKE THAT IN JULY, HE WOULD HAVE WON THE TOUR.

"The WATTS ARE THE WATTS" as the say...

 

[Peyresourde]

Alejandro Valverde | 77 (-6): 6.61 W/kg for 24:06 on Lo Port (Catalunya 2017)

It is around the 9th best performance of the year for me (only 1 per climb) and maybe the 10th best of Valverde's career. In pure watts it is quite good for the 2010s, of course.

Also, I see that you have not studied my previous list that closely.
I think Red Rick has been quite friendly in this thread, I am happy as long as there is something to discuss.

And if he had repeated this performances every single stage of the Tour, he indeed could have won it....

 

[Red Rick]

Alejandro Valverde | 77 (-6): 6.61 W/kg for 24:06 on Lo Port (Catalunya 2017)

It is around the 9th best performance of the year for me (only 1 per climb) and maybe the 10th best of Valverde's career. In pure watts it is quite good for the 2010s, of course.

Also, I see that you have not studied my previous list that closely.
I think Red Rick has been quite friendly in this thread, I am happy as long as there is something to discuss.

And if he had repeated this performances every single stage of the Tour, he indeed could have won it....

Wasn't expecting a -6 adjustment for Lo Port. Without adjustments it's one of the fastest of the season, but IIRC most of the big performances in 2017 were basically one climb stages and multi mountain stages were pretty slow.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Speaking of fresh efforts. One explanation given for the faster ascents in the current era have been better nutrition and more fuelling during the stages.

In mountain ITT's this shouldn't be all that important.

Do you have enough observations for mountain ITT's, so that we can compare across years, @Peyresourde ? Noticed performances from Quintana, Pogacar mentioned earlier. How was the Alpe di Siusi performance by Kruisjwijk, valverde and the two russian riders on that day.

 

[Peyresourde]

Speaking of fresh efforts. One explanation given for the faster ascents in the current era have been better nutrition and more fuelling during the stages.

In mountain ITT's this shouldn't be all that important.

Do you have enough observations for mountain ITT's, so that we can compare across years, @Peyresourde ? Noticed performances from Quintana, Pogacar mentioned earlier. How was the Alpe di Siusi performance by Kruisjwijk, valverde and the two russian riders on that day.

In the 'weaker' eras (especially 80s and earlier, but maybe also 2010s) TT-efforts were comparitively stronger than the performances in road stages. In the 2010s, there were not many Mountain TTs, so data is sparse. (The Alpe di Siusi effort was in line with Kruisjwijk's other climbs that Giro, so nothing special). Quintana was definitely the type to be good in mountain TTs, he was really good in fresh efforts. Contador probably also. Roglic, Porte and Bernal also did great in 2018 Romandie.

Fueling during the stage is only one aspect important for performance, and we definitely see the effects. Just look at breakaways now: They only get 1-2 minutes and are barely caught a few k before the finish. These breaks use to 'come back from alone' because they were simply tired after being in the wind for hours.

The nutrition also improves the fresh climbing level because the most important factor is improved recovery during training --> harder and more effective training possible --> better shape. (And also better recovery between stages.)


Overall: Nutrition improves efforts after long stages more than fresh efforts, but it also improves fresh efforts indirectly.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Fueling during the stage is only one aspect important for performance, and we definitely see the effects. Just look at breakaways now: They only get 1-2 minutes and are barely caught a few k before the finish. These breaks use to 'come bback from alone' because they were simply tired after being in the wind for hours.

Good points overall, but on this specific issue I think the explanation lies more in the general rise in level across the peloton and in improved aerodynamics.

Very strong riders now go into breakaways wearing skinsuits and riding full aero setups. That increases the average speed of the move significantly. Because aerodynamic drag increases disproportionately with speed, a faster breakaway becomes much harder to bring back.

 

[Red Rick]

Speaking of fresh efforts. One explanation given for the faster ascents in the current era have been better nutrition and more fuelling during the stages.

In mountain ITT's this shouldn't be all that important.

Do you have enough observations for mountain ITT's, so that we can compare across years, @Peyresourde ? Noticed performances from Quintana, Pogacar mentioned earlier. How was the Alpe di Siusi performance by Kruisjwijk, valverde and the two russian riders on that day.

Easy unipuerto stages are slightly better for this I think just because of sample size. But Alpe di Siusi IIRC is the slowest MTT I ever saw.

 

[Netserk]

Easy unipuerto stages are slightly better for this I think just because of sample size. But Alpe di Siusi IIRC is the slowest MTT I ever saw.

also the day after a marathon

 

[Netserk]

and unlike 2023, they didnt wait for the last 3 km in 2016

 

[peterfin]

Great thread. I took the time to read all of your work for the first time. Although my view is qualitative, I am very much alligned regarding your view of Ullrich. His 1997 TdF performance was just incredible and made me a lifelong fan with a lot of frustration too in the Armstrong era.

When I look at the list it's also a bit frightening to see all those former top climbers in tier 1, 2, 3 and even 4 that deserve an asterix for reasons that belong in the clinic. Seeing the current stars in that same list gives anyone who believes in a clean sport a reason to pause.

 

[AmRacer]

Great thread. I took the time to read all of your work for the first time. Although my view is qualitative, I am very much alligned regarding your view of Ullrich. His 1997 TdF performance was just incredible and made me a lifelong fan with a lot of frustration too in the Armstrong era.

When I look at the list it's also a bit frightening to see all those former top climbers in tier 1, 2, 3 and even 4 that deserve an asterix for reasons that belong in the clinic. Seeing the current stars in that same list gives anyone who believes in a clean sport a reason to pause.

Did you see

https://twitter.com/x/status/2025617894214664239

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/2025617894214664239?s=20